Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

But what the difference between 2 right footed centre back and 2 left footed centre back?

Cos JDT is happy enough to sign a left footed centre back to play with either Ayala or Wharton then so be it. Plus adds to competition for the centre back position. 

Is your attitude until further notice, if Tomasson does it, I will suspend all critical faculty and assume he must be right? 

We dont need competition, we need at least one top quality centre back to be able to start as only Wharton is proven to any degree AND reliable with 2 top end Championship level centre backs including our captain departing.

Left footers tend to often be quite one sided and both Wharton and Davies would usually play on the left so if he did join it would IMO be a concern when they would be the 2 most reliable centre backs. Saying so doesnt mean a lack of backing for the manager.

Ultimately we have no idea if the rumour is true.

[Mike E]

I think people are overthinking 'why' there are very few left-footed CB pairings.

Imo, it's simple law of averages. On average there are only enough 'lefties' in the game to take up the left wing and left back spots. Left footed CBs themselves are pretty rare.

Getting two in one team is nothing to worry about and it's definitely not some strange 'imbalance'.

[Crimpshrine]

I don't know about two left footed centre backs, we will probaly get one centre back with two left feet.

[roversfan99]

Ideally you would have someone who prefers being on the left and someone who prefers someone on the right but I think it is beyond just probability/law of averages that managers so seldom have 2 left footers together. Left footers are often particularly one sided compared to right footers.

Not exactly the same but I think back to when we sold Warnock and brought in 4 defenders but were unable to sign a direct replacement. Jacobsen was poor but we also signed Salgado (who was excellent for a season) and Chimbonda (who had excellent credentials and did score that goal v Burnley but overall was not a man youd want in the trenches with you) leaving us with 3 natural right backs and no left backs. We also signed Givet who again was a very good signing but a natural centre back who looked a little awkward as a full back but with Nelsen and Samba he struggled to get in there.

Especially when Chimbonda was asked to play as a left back, we were so imbalanced because the whole defence was right footed. Either Davies or Wharton would be not quite in their natural position and it would be a potential problem.

[Upside Down]

We signed anyone yet?

[XLM]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Left footers are often particularly one sided compared to right footers.

Based on...?

[bluebruce]

11 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

We signed anyone yet?

Yes, we've just chosen to ignore it and talk about unrelated bollocks instead, like what feet centre backs should use.

[damo100]

23 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

We signed anyone yet?

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[RoverInverness]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Wharton.

2 left footed centre backs are a very rare combination so I would feel a bit uneasy about it personally.

I do rate Davies as a Championship centre back but the fact that our reliable CB that remains is also left footed is a big concern should any interest be genuine and materialise.

I am not convinced that we will go for him though anyway, especially as a potential loan with a fee if there is any truth in that.

The idea that Venkys temporarily refrained from investing because they didn't trust the manager yet kept him anyway is as far-fetched as it is illogical.

Far-fetched and illogical? They bought a football club not even knowing that the league the club were in had relegation from it!
 

They are a ridiculous bunch of quarrelling siblings and the club has been a victim of their dysfunctionality for over a decade. There are lots of examples of them behaving in contradictory ways - not sacking Mowbray, yet not throwing money at him, is a relatively logical action compared to, for example, not sacking Kean yet at the same time employing Shebby Singh to undermine him. 
 

Contradictory behaviour is a significant  and consistent feature of their tenureship. I am shocked that anyone could be surprised by it after all these years. 
 

I hope, btw, that making good appointments with Broughton and JDT, yet then not sanctioning any signings so that they eventually piss off and leave - Lambert style - is not going to be another example of their long list of what you describe as far-fetched and illogical behaviour.

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Is your attitude until further notice, if Tomasson does it, I will suspend all critical faculty and assume he must be right? 

Not at all but I have alot of confidence in JDT and I trust him to bring in what we want and if you disagree fine by me. 

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We dont need competition, we need at least one top quality centre back to be able to start as only Wharton is proven to any degree AND reliable with 2 top end Championship level centre backs including our captain departing.

That's your opinion. Every position is open and I don't do who first choices. If you play well and you start. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Ideally you would have someone who prefers being on the left and someone who prefers someone on the right but I think it is beyond just probability/law of averages that managers so seldom have 2 left footers together. Left footers are often particularly one sided compared to right footers.

Not exactly the same but I think back to when we sold Warnock and brought in 4 defenders but were unable to sign a direct replacement. Jacobsen was poor but we also signed Salgado (who was excellent for a season) and Chimbonda (who had excellent credentials and did score that goal v Burnley but overall was not a man youd want in the trenches with you) leaving us with 3 natural right backs and no left backs. We also signed Givet who again was a very good signing but a natural centre back who looked a little awkward as a full back but with Nelsen and Samba he struggled to get in there.

Especially when Chimbonda was asked to play as a left back, we were so imbalanced because the whole defence was right footed. Either Davies or Wharton would be not quite in their natural position and it would be a potential problem.

Allardyce signed Chimbonda to play left back. He had 2 million to spend and that's who he wanted. I would have prefer a proper left back but Allardyce didn't do that

[Sparks Rover]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't do who first choices. If you play well and you start. 

More waffle.  Who plays if nobody plays well?

[roversfan99]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not at all but I have alot of confidence in JDT and I trust him to bring in what we want and if you disagree fine by me. 

That's your opinion. Every position is open and I don't do who first choices. If you play well and you start. 

Its not about how much faith or confidence we have in Tomasson. As far as I am concerned, he hasn't earnt trust or caused distrust, its a clean slate. But if we were City fans with Pep as manager, we could still constructively critique potential signings and sales, if they question the Kalvin Phillips signing, the massively overpriced Grealish signing or the Raheem Sterling sale, it doesnt mean a lack of overall trust because obviously Guardiola overall has earnt trust. 

I just find it strange that you are so active in a discussion about the prospect of signings when your attitude seems to be to totally remove the potential to question linked individuals. Your default attitude is if Tomasson does it, it must be right. That isnt the case. If you have doubts, if you wouldnt like something about a signing, it isnt committing treason to say.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Allardyce signed Chimbonda to play left back. He had 2 million to spend and that's who he wanted. I would have prefer a proper left back but Allardyce didn't do that

Exactly. And now we need a centre back to potentially (form allowing) come and play in the heart of defence next to Wharton who is 1st choice. Surely it makes sense to have someone who prefers to play on the right hand side. I think you think that yourself as you basically said so earlier.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not about how much faith or confidence we have in Tomasson. As far as I am concerned, he hasn't earnt trust or caused distrust, its a clean slate.

Well we have to agree to disagree cos I think he has be breath of fresh air since being appointed. He spoke well, has a clear way how he wants us to play, communicate well. 

[bluebruce]

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/football/portsmouth-fc/portsmouth-boss-message-over-future-of-prized-assets-linked-with-swansea-city-blackburn-rovers-co-3764264

Former targets Ronan Curtis and Marcus Harness for sale as they enter the last year of their deals. Article says Curtis believed to be valued at about 500k, which is a lot less than when we were looking previously (though I've heard on here he hasn't done too well for them recently) and Harness it just says they'd want to recoup the 800k they paid Burton for him. Which might mean the minimum is 800k, or that it would do the job. Course, we might not be interested anymore under the new regime.

Both are 26 years old. Harness scored 11 in 40 games in the league last season, with 6 assists, Curtis scored 8 in 43, and 8 assists, which was his weakest goals return in the last 4 seasons. He's been good for 10 or 11 goals usually, though of course in League One.

From what posters have said about his attitude previously, I'd swerve Curtis personally. Harness scored the vast majority of his goals in the first half of last season, when I think we were discussing him and Twine a lot, as they had similar goal numbers at that point. Seems like Harness' season dwindled after that, although Curtis and Harness are ostensibly wingers but seem to get moved around the pitch a fair bit so he may just have been moved further back.

I'm not really inspired by the idea of either, although they seem to be going cheap, our budget is low, and we need players.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/football/portsmouth-fc/portsmouth-boss-message-over-future-of-prized-assets-linked-with-swansea-city-blackburn-rovers-co-3764264

Former targets Ronan Curtis and Marcus Harness for sale as they enter the last year of their deals. Article says Curtis believed to be valued at about 500k, which is a lot less than when we were looking previously (though I've heard on here he hasn't done too well for them recently) and Harness it just says they'd want to recoup the 800k they paid Burton for him. Which might mean the minimum is 800k, or that it would do the job. Course, we might not be interested anymore under the new regime.

Both are 26 years old. Harness scored 11 in 40 games in the league last season, with 6 assists, Curtis scored 8 in 43, and 8 assists, which was his weakest goals return in the last 4 seasons. He's been good for 10 or 11 goals usually, though of course in League One.

From what posters have said about his attitude previously, I'd swerve Curtis personally. Harness scored the vast majority of his goals in the first half of last season, when I think we were discussing him and Twine a lot, as they had similar goal numbers at that point. Seems like Harness' season dwindled after that, although Curtis and Harness are ostensibly wingers but seem to get moved around the pitch a fair bit so he may just have been moved further back.

I'm not really inspired by the idea of either, although they seem to be going cheap, our budget is low, and we need players.

This is where Rovers really need the insight and connections of an established scouting and recruitment set up (which we don't appear to have had for some considerable time). As it stands we are reliant upon a potentially fairly narrow view of who is available, based on whatever passes for due diligence in the eyes of those with their hands on the till. It isn't a normal set up. FFS it isn't even an acceptable set up, but it is the situation we find ourselves in.

There is NOTHING that we, as fans and mere onlookers, can do to influence the course of events, other than to post our best suggestions on here in the hope that someone at the club is looking over our collective shoulders and decides to follow some of the smoke.

Anything else probably borders on the delusional, but then again, hey - we are fans of a fuster-clucked up football club, after all 😉

[Ossydave]

On this obsession with 2 left footers at centre half, I remember this debate during last years euros around Spain playing Laporte and Torres. Someone actually went to great lengths to dispell it as a load of bollocks statistically and said it didn't matter. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Apparently Broughton is struggling to read Park's writing.

[Upside Down]

Maybe he should've used a sharper crayon.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Defenders are coming

Midfielders are coming

Strikers are coming

Omg I'm....

Deluded. The U23s are already here.

[KentExile]

The whole 2 left footed centre backs being unbalanced is in marginal gains.

There are many right footers than left footers... so there are more right footed centre backs.  As such, at some/several points during a right footed centre backs career, he will be asked to play as a left sided centre back (as his partner/s are also right footed)

Left footed centre backs (being rarer) will rarely be asked to play on the right, as it is probable that their partner/s throughout most of their career will be right footed. 

So, in much the same way that right backs often look lost when played as conventional left backs (because they are not familiar with playing there), left footed centre backs playing as right sided centre backs is almost like learning a new position, as silly as that might sound, and can in theory lead to a decline/drop in their performance compared to when they play on the left

Hope that waffle made some sort of sense, lol

 

TLDR - if you are less familiar with playing in a certain position, then if you are played tehre, then your performance may drop (albeit slightly)

Edited July 13, 2022 by KentExile

[Mike E]

5 minutes ago, KentExile said:

The whole 2 left footed centre backs being unbalanced is in marginal gains.

There are many right footers than left footers... so there are more right footed centre backs.  As such, at some/several points during a right footed centre backs career, he will be asked to play as a left sided centre back (as his partner/s are also right footed)

Left footed centre backs (being rarer) will rarely be asked to play on the right, as it is probable that their partner/s throughout most of their career will be right footed. 

So, in much the same way that right backs often look lost when played as conventional left backs (because they are not familiar with playing there), left footed centre backs playing as right sided centre backs is almost like learning a new position, as silly as that might sound, and can in theory lead to a decline/drop in their performance compared to when they play on the left

Hope that waffle made some sort of sense, lol

 

TLDR - if you are less familiar with playing in a certain position, then if you are played tehre, then your performance may drop (albeit slightly)

That's actually a great point. I still disagree that it's as important as some think, but this is a good argument!

[KentExile]

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

That's actually a great point. I still disagree that it's as important as some think, but this is a good argument!

Thanks Mike, As I said, its marginal gains, it wont generally ruin a player/defence, but at top level sport, marginal gains can be the difference maker in a tight game

Edited July 13, 2022 by KentExile

[pomster]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

Maybe he should've used a sharper crayon.

Maggot wouldn’t pay for a sharpener

[MarkBRFC]

12 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

i think it will all kick off transfer wise this friday,multiple incomings and diaz outgoing, i cannot believe that jdt,respected former player and manager will go into the season with a squad this skinny

Nobody will be coming in while they are in Scotland.

Season will have started before we make a signing.