Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[tomphil]

47 minutes ago, Jimmy612 said:

How difficult would it be to impose a rule that the club who offered and honoured the scholarship has first refusal on a 3-year pro contract for the player.  If not, all these academies across the country may as well have the crest of the top 6 or 8 clubs over their door.  We're essentially rearing young footballers for them to swoop in and nick whichever they want.

They have clubs struggling for money by the testes though in regards to this.

Swoop in offer a couple of million down payment which covers the cost of the rearing and puts money back into the academy. Then offer a raft of add ons and sell ons for future income of more millions.

Jonny the agent gets his cut he's happy, club bean counters are happy they've got money in, guarantee of more and haven't had to risk handing out an expensive long term deal.  Player is happy he's got more money and a possible future at a big club sorted.

Manager and fans are pissed off but they don't really matter once the wheels are turning.

Edited July 18, 2022 by tomphil

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, briansol said:

Only those two? I'd imagine the full set of top clubs to be all over this.

Ye but sometimes once contact is established I think the relationship builds.  I'm sure he would attract other clubs but due to their coverage of this area Utd are in a good  position ...I don't know about spurs but its all over rumour mill

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, 47er said:

2 days and 5 hours before the season starts and we have signed no body. Who said big changes were on the way for this season?  

Effing unbelievable.

Guessing that meant 12? 😉 Panicked me checking my calendar then! 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

47 minutes ago, Jimmy612 said:

For once, I'm actually not immediately going to blame the club or Waggott here.  If big clubs have been whispering sweet nothings in the ear of Philips and his agent, then what exactly can Rovers do?  We can try and compete and pay him 5k, 10k, 15k... the big clubs could blow us out of the water without thinking.  It's nothing to them if they think they're getting the next England centre half.

 

Did you say 'BIG CLUBS'?......the likes of fookin Burnley could blow us out of the water right here right now!

We are owed by Billionaires.Reality check about a piss poor situation.

Edited July 18, 2022 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[lraC]

45 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

With Phillips, we can’t just be offering him a grand a week, then saying “we did all we could” when he disappears for a pitiful fee.

We need to be operating outside our fabled structure, plus offering some decent performance based incentives and raises, as well as giving him appropriate assurances and selling the club to him.

No doubt this would be seen by some as “being held to ransom”, but doing so isn’t going to lead to us “doing a Derby”… seeing him go though would just be another step in our journey to becoming a dysfunctional 1990’s Crewe Alexandra.

I did have a business enquiry from another one of our youngsters, a while ago, who is now in the first team. Salary was a fair bit more than £1k per week, but you are right, we need to offer something more tempting when we have a prospect like this and clearly have others sniffing round.

No easy solution I know, especially with FFP, but in my view, a more relaxed approach under FFP rules could work.

I get the need for clubs to stop over spending, but there needs to be perhaps some sort of an exception, like the money spent on facilities, not being counted for FFP.

We have a grade 1 academy and are clearly producing a steady stream of youngsters, so losing them to the big clubs is simply heart breaking.

[Miller11]

6 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Again do you know we haven't made him a very good offer?

Don't come back saying "obviously not good enough". We can't compete with the big clubs like most others including teams in the premier league 

No, I don’t. But history suggests that it’s within our structure, and has been on the table for some time. I doubt I’d be far off with my grand a week prediction.

I’m certainly not going to start presuming Waggott has suddenly become proactive and pragmatic while dealing with contracts.

[RoversClitheroe]

I'm pretty sure you can offer professional terms well before the 17th birthday it's effectively a pre- contract? 

So why the fuck are Rovers so incompetent? 

[Theaxe15]

Phillips went to school in and is from Manchester, I find it strange he wasn’t snapped up by a Manchester club earlier given the reputation he seems to have in the game 

[Irish_Rover]

59 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Knew when Pete said, it be true,

Hopefully it gets sorted, if not i'm sure there will be a host of people saying he is shit anyway

And those same people would be the exact same ones on twitter and facebook a week or two previously saying we shouldn't be overly concerned about the centre back situation as he is ready to step in and perform worldie performances!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I'm pretty sure you can offer professional terms well before the 17th birthday it's effectively a pre- contract? 

So why the fuck are Rovers so incompetent? 

To be fair, we did. 

He just hasn't signed it.

[lraC]

49 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Ha ha...he's been on the radar for years mate...you think players like that go under the radar when they play other clubs in matches....

Know for a fact utd have been in for him for ages, I know the utd scout who's been watching him.  His job is to buy from other academies.

I know a lad who does exactly the same for Everton. It is big business if they can steal a player for a pittance, from a club who have spent their time being nurtured and trained. It is beginning to hurt Rovers this and a solution needs to be found.

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, lraC said:

I know a lad who does exactly the same for Everton. It is big business if they can steal a player for a pittance, from a club who have spent their time being nurtured and trained. It is beginning to hurt Rovers this and a solution needs to be found.

Rovers do it too...comes around goes around

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Jimmy612 said:

So my assumption is right.. the club can be simply held over a barrel by Philips and his agent, and the wealthy elite can mosey on in and take him from under our nose.  The system is completely and utterly broken.

To be fair if FM is anything to go by there's a ton of clauses in such contracts that benefit the club that made him - x amount after so many first team appearances, x amount of transfer profit etc.

It's just all on the never never and doesn't benefit us now if he walks.

[JHRover]

So let me get this right then, we can't spend money or pay the wages to sign established players, can't pay our existing academy graduates enough to keep them here and out of Championship rivals' hands, and can't tie down the next crop of academy products to contracts.

Can't Do FC in full flow. Is there anything we CAN do other than make excuses?

Edited July 18, 2022 by JHRover

[Guest]

Academy give 3 year Category 1 license. Fantastic news.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2022/july/18/rovers-retain-top-academy-ranking-/

[J*B]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Academy give 3 year Category 1 license. Fantastic news.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2022/july/18/rovers-retain-top-academy-ranking-/

Genuine discussion point - how much will this cost us and in turn, is it worth it? I know it’s Jack’s legacy but have we turned over anyone recently that we couldn’t have signed for less than the running costs? 

[47er]

30 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Tell me 47er what the club could have done regarding Phillips?

 

Offer him enough to keep him and regard it as an investment?

[Ghost7]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Academy give 3 year Category 1 license. Fantastic news.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2022/july/18/rovers-retain-top-academy-ranking-/

Wrong thread, please don't distract from the disastrous transfer window with any positive news!  

[lraC]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

So let me get this right then, we can't spend money or pay the wages to sign established players, can't pay our existing academy graduates enough to keep them here and out of Championship rivals' hands, and can't tie down the next crop of academy products to contracts.

Can't Do FC in full flow. Is there anything we CAN do other than make excuses?

Looks like we can carry on making other clubs richer, if we have a 3 year guaranteed category 1 academy.

 

Imagine how proud we will be, if City, UTD, Spurs and Liverpool all have our Academy graduates playing in Europe for them.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

Genuine discussion point - how much will this cost us and in turn, is it worth it? I know it’s Jack’s legacy but have we turned over anyone recently that we couldn’t have signed for less than the running costs? 

Let's say it's costing us £3m. There's a bit of a debate about the true cost because of funding within the EPPP guidelines, but for the sake of the discussion let's just go with £3m. 

Cat 1 established in 2013, so 9 years, but let's again call it 10 for the sake of ease.

So it's cost us £30m. The question is have we received £30m in benefit for the 1st team over that decade. 

Darragh Lenihan
Lewis Travis
Ryan Nyambe
David Raya
Scott Wharton
Connor Mahoney
John Buckley

are the main ones who've broken through in that time really...

[Exiled_Rover]

7 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Rovers do it too...comes around goes around

From what I've seen of the Rovers graduates that have come from other Academies, they're failed ones that we've identified and given a second chance to - JRC, Travis etc. We're not stealing the cream of their crop.

[Exiled_Rover]

3 minutes ago, J*B said:

Genuine discussion point - how much will this cost us and in turn, is it worth it? I know it’s Jack’s legacy but have we turned over anyone recently that we couldn’t have signed for less than the running costs? 

If Spurs / Utd etc are interested and he has no loyalty to Rovers then there's nothing we can offer him that they can't blow out of the water.

[47er]

26 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Guessing that meant 12? 😉 Panicked me checking my calendar then! 

sorry! Panic in a week!.

[Miller11]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

Genuine discussion point - how much will this cost us and in turn, is it worth it? I know it’s Jack’s legacy but have we turned over anyone recently that we couldn’t have signed for less than the running costs? 

Still just about in profit from Jones, Hanley and Raya. With Wharton, Travis, Carter, Buckley and Vale (at least) looking like they will play a big role this season, it makes sense. 

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we had scrapped it though. Would be typically shortsighted and idiotic for us to baulk at the couple of million a year it costs and spend that on one or two loans instead.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Miller11 said:

Still just about in profit from Jones, Hanley and Raya. With Wharton, Travis, Carter, Buckley and Vale (at least) looking like they will play a big role this season, it makes sense. 

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we had scrapped it though. Would be typically shortsighted and idiotic for us to baulk at the couple of million a year it costs and spend that on one or two loans instead.

But, Jones was sold before Cat 1 in 2013. We've spent £30m (estimate) since 2013 on the academy.

Lenihan we got a lot of games out of, without gaining any major fee. How much was he worth to us over his near decade at the club? Hard to put a figure on it. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Travis still here, assumedly the 22/23 captain and has certainly added a lot of value to our team, but no monetary value to objectively accumulate. 

Nyambe has gone for nothing but of course played 183 games for the club, adding value to us over his time here. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Raya sold for a fee, somewhere between £3m-5m without knowing the particulars of the deal. Got some decent stuff out of him whilst he was here. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Scott Wharton finally giving us some worth after years out on loan, no monetary value as of yet.

Connor Mahoney a bit of a disaster, not much value out of him with playing time or financials.

John Buckley certainly in the Scott Wharton category of proving his worth now and could certainly make us money in the future, but nothing as of yet.