Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Lets take the Dack from prior to his injury, as I have acknowledged that the big variable is whether he returns to his old self. He did after the first injury and was thriving before he did the other knee

What was wrong with his work rate? Was the old Dack lacking athleticism to the point that it was a major problem? Does a team have to be built around him, it was a lazy assumption based on the Graham days but does long ball necessarily suit a player like him? How have you concluded having seen one game under Tomasson and based on the Dack of old that he won't fit in?

There is zero point in talking about the Dack from 2 and years ago cos its pointless and he has had 2 major injuries and I don't think he is the same old Dack. He will have adapt his game. Its about his work rate and fitness now not from 2 and half years ago. 

Dack is still recovering from these major injuries and I don't ever think he will the same old Dack but he will have adapt his game which is only natural after such major injuries. 

I don't know if Dack will fit into JDT style of play and what he wants from his front 4 so the question is Can Dack fit into that and does he have the fitness levels to play that role and the attributes he wants from the front 4?  

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If athleticism is the sole focus, lets just get athletes in. We've got a bloody good player, an entertainer and a goal scorer if he we can get him right, which as I said is the main question. It's not as if he was immobile and couldn't press even if he perhaps wont have the same energy levels as some of other options, but it doesn't mean that he can't fit into the team, even if the likes of Dolan and Szmodics are swarming around more than Dack whereas Dack scores more goals than the likes of those 2.

Even if he has declined, it surely won't be his work rate that falls.

very childish comments cos its all part of the role and what is required from the front 4. Athleticism is one of the attributes along with work rate, movement, pressing aswell as creating chances and scoring goals. 

If Dack can't press the same as other 3 in the front 4 why would you pick him cos the opposition would know he wouldn't and use that as weakness in our pressing game? 

You keep saying we got a bloody good player but that based on performances from over 2 and half years ago. 

Here a question for you, If JDT decided that Dack doesn't fit in how he wants his team would you want JDT to adapt his style of play and his principles on how he wants his team to play just for one player?  

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There is a lot of talk about a "fluid front 4" but equally it shouldn't be forgotten that players in general tend to thrive in a specific position more often than not for a reason. Indeed when Mowbray mentioned players being versatile he was often lambasted.

Its about players movement, roam and interchanging positions in the final third and not being stick to certain area of the pitch like under Mowbray time. Its not about Versatile like under Mowbray. These are 2 very different thing. 

[CambridgeRover]

Im sorry but Dack hasnt been the same since the injuries. Stunk the place up on his latest return. It isn't about the player he was but the player he is.

Edited August 2, 2022 by CambridgeRover

[jny]

2 minutes ago, CambridgeRover said:

Im sorry but Dack hasnt been the same since the injuries. Stunk the place up on his latest return. It isn't about the player he was but the player he is.

Rubbish, we've barely seen him play. Give him a chance at least, arguably best player in the league on his day.

Edited August 2, 2022 by jny

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CambridgeRover said:

Im sorry but Dack hasnt been the same since the injuries. Stunk the place up on his latest return. It isn't about the player he was but the player he is.

Changed the game single handedly vs Derby at home and away at Coventry. And that was without a pre season. Looking forward to coming back to this comment in 6 months.

[Admiral Nelsen]

3 minutes ago, CambridgeRover said:

Im sorry but Dack hasnt been the same since the injuries. Stunk the place up on his latest return. It isn't about the player he was but the player he is.

Did he? Do we actually have any evidence at all for this? 

 

I'll grant you that he didn't look the sharpest on his return last year (it would be a miracle if he did) but he still scored and showed some moments of real quality when most of our attacking players couldn't hit a barn door. 

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Changed the game single handedly vs Derby at home and away at Coventry. And that was without a pre season. Looking forward to coming back to this comment in 6 months.

Didn't Rovers and fitness coach Liam Mason give Dack a mini pre season when he retuned last season? 

You mention those games but it was Mowbray who put us in those poor position by picking the wrong team(again) and formation. 

Last season is last season, Its about now and whether his game and fitness can fit into how we want to play now under our new head coach JDT and surely we shouldn't change that style of play just for Dack

[superniko]

Agree with a similar comment above, the Dack comments are complete nonsense and over the top. He's comfortably the best footballer and finisher in our squad. He's the only player I'd want the ball to fall to in the box.

Talk of 'stinking the place out' last season just shows how clueless some are on here. He didn't start a single match, and only came off the bench 9 times, making the difference in the Derby match and more-so Coventry where he showed our alleged number 9 Gallagher how to play with instinct, positioning and finishing ability. 

The only real negative you can say is the missed penalty in his 1st game back against Bristol City, arguably he shouldn't have been on it, but either way, hardly 'stinking the place out'

 

More fool us if we push him aside for the likes of Gallagher, Dolan etc. because they're better at cross-country. I seem to recall a certain Alan Shearer still being the best striker in the league after knee and ankle injuries. Dack is one of the best in the league at interlinking play and finishing anything at his feet in the box and that's how he should be used.

Edited August 2, 2022 by superniko

[roversinmyblood]

1 hour ago, SuperBrfc said:

Might be an extremely unpopular opinion, but I think this JDT experiment could be short lived and could end in tears. I don't want that to happen, obviously, but it's just the feeling I get from the way we are faffing about, the way Dack is being held back, the way we seem to be 'done' with our CM business etc. I'm just stating how I feel about it at present and don't expect many to agree.

An alternative system is going to be needed as a plan B because TM tried a high pressing game with great success. However, after a few games, especially when playing twice a week and picking up knocks, the tempo dropped and it became ineffective and we didn’t dominate teams like we did and consequently we stopped getting the results we had been enjoying. 
Plan B is where Dack will come into his own. When there are fewer chances you need someone who is ruthless when the opportunity arises. Don’t write Dack off he will be needed. 

[BankEnd Rover]

1 hour ago, ItsRoverZ said:

I've been told we have backed out of signing styles on our end, he was being looked at as a CM option who could cover at LB if needed, not the other way round,  Styles has never played LB in a back 4. He was a wing back in a back 5 

Would make sense seen as we have just brought in Morton as a CM, but who knows 

Gutted if true…I’d preferred him over a loanie…Then again he’s a play maker so LWB fits his style with CM…Looks like we are playing a LB system. 

Seems like we will be stuck with Pickering 🤦🏻‍♂️

[imy9]

3 minutes ago, roversinmyblood said:

An alternative system is going to be needed as a plan B because TM tried a high pressing game with great success. However, after a few games, especially when playing twice a week and picking up knocks, the tempo dropped and it became ineffective and we didn’t dominate teams like we did and consequently we stopped getting the results we had been enjoying. 
Plan B is where Dack will come into his own. When there are fewer chances you need someone who is ruthless when the opportunity arises. Don’t write Dack off he will be needed. 

I would argue that the players were never fit enough to last two games a week playing that high press. It will be interesting to see if Rosen has an impact with our fitness levels this year.

agree about Dack being a second option from the bench.

[SuperBrfc]

39 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

 

It seems that we have got the Liverpool lad rather than  Styles. 

Likewise it could well be Szmodic over Bowler. 

If that's the case then the 2 we've signed better be surprisingly good as they look the worse options on paper.

 

If true, the two we've gone for are also cheaper than the other two are likely to be. That would be this hierarchy down to a tee.

Make do, it's alright, we can save a few quid. Stats look good.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, SuperBrfc said:

It's not just with Gallagher either, IMO. It's the same with a lot of our attacking options.

I'm not interested in how fluid they are and any other jargon Broughton wants to come out with about metrics etc, I don't think there are many goals in our attacking line as it stands, Dack aside (assume BBD won't be here), and that is a concern.

On the Peterborough signing, their fans seem to be surprised we have gone for him and at the rumoured fee too. They don't seem to think he can cut it in the Championship. There might be a few "he's crap anyway" posts among them, as happens with some fans at every club when a player leaves, but the general feeling from them is of surprise.

A few have mentioned it and I agree, he does have a Bellamy-esque vibe about him from the clips I have seen, so we'll have to see how he settles in. He could turn out to be an exciting player.

Might be an extremely unpopular opinion, but I think this JDT experiment could be short lived and could end in tears. I don't want that to happen, obviously, but it's just the feeling I get from the way we are faffing about, the way Dack is being held back, the way we seem to be 'done' with our CM business etc. I'm just stating how I feel about it at present and don't expect many to agree.

Yeah I think many have taken the comments about players being fluid and expressing themselves and really have ran with it to the point whereby actual players thriving in their best position has gone out of the window! If Gallagher for examples keeps playing wide and I really hope he does not, in a couple of months, I suspect that people will stop overlooking that sort of thing regardless of any "fluid front 4" rhetoric when he continues to struggle.

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

There is zero point in talking about the Dack from 2 and years ago cos its pointless and he has had 2 major injuries and I don't think he is the same old Dack. He will have adapt his game. Its about his work rate and fitness now not from 2 and half years ago. 

Dack is still recovering from these major injuries and I don't ever think he will the same old Dack but he will have adapt his game which is only natural after such major injuries. 

I don't know if Dack will fit into JDT style of play and what he wants from his front 4 so the question is Can Dack fit into that and does he have the fitness levels to play that role and the attributes he wants from the front 4?  

very childish comments cos its all part of the role and what is required from the front 4. Athleticism is one of the attributes along with work rate, movement, pressing aswell as creating chances and scoring goals. 

If Dack can't press the same as other 3 in the front 4 why would you pick him cos the opposition would know he wouldn't and use that as weakness in our pressing game? 

You keep saying we got a bloody good player but that based on performances from over 2 and half years ago. 

Here a question for you, If JDT decided that Dack doesn't fit in how he wants his team would you want JDT to adapt his style of play and his principles on how he wants his team to play just for one player?  

Its about players movement, roam and interchanging positions in the final third and not being stick to certain area of the pitch like under Mowbray time. Its not about Versatile like under Mowbray. These are 2 very different thing. 

Why do you keep going on about his work rate? Why would his work rate noticeably decline after injury?

His physical state of course could and my comments have always been subject to him making at least close to a full physical recovery. If he is nowhere near the same player, which we cannot possibly conclude yet, then obviously he may struggle to ever regain his place. 

But assuming he does, I don't see why he couldn't participate in a pressing side, he is being talked about as if he is Andy Carroll. He has never been quick but he can press even if it would never have been his primary attribute like say a Dolan, who alternatively could only dream of being like Dack in the final third. He has scored goals when either he or a team mate has won the ball back high up in the past, 2 goals that spring to mind are West Brom away and Wigan at home a few seasons ago. The likes of Dolan/Szmodics/Hedges/Gallagher could perhaps be more integral/start the press but it is not as if Dack is a big immobile lump that couldn't help.

I think there is a lot of emphasis on him because if you remove him and Brereton, even allowing for another striker coming in which is far from certain, I don't see many goals at all in what remains. You can press all you want but you need to offer a regular and consistent goal threat.

Regarding your question, I firmly believe that you build around your players and IF he makes a near full recovery, he is our best player so he takes the number 10 role and we must try to get the best out of him, even if there is a tinge of compromise tactically. But as previously mentioned, I don't see why that is totally at odds with what Tomasson has mentioned anyway.

Everything depends on his physical state to which you seem to have already made your mind up on.

22 minutes ago, CambridgeRover said:

Im sorry but Dack hasnt been the same since the injuries. Stunk the place up on his latest return. It isn't about the player he was but the player he is.

He came back from one and then after a couple of months had hit form similar to prior to his injury before the unfortunate second injury.

Since the second one, due to the timing of the season he has never started a game since. How you can possibly say that he isn't the player he was at this stage seems beyond premature.

[Exiled_Rover]

36 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Changed the game single handedly vs Derby at home and away at Coventry. And that was without a pre season. Looking forward to coming back to this comment in 6 months.

Six more months? So that will be 30 months since he's contributed anything on the field then.

[glen9mullan]

Dacks injuries have a been a nightmare, he hasnt looked the same player, but hasnt had the run of games either. Hopefully he can get fit and can impact, because on his day he's arguably our most gifted player.

Sammie has is all to prove at Championship, as his two previous attempts he has been more miss than hit, if the fee is to be believed, that's some gamble. 

I'm very much on the fence with his signing until I see what else arrives, I hope he is one of a number of signings and not the "marquee signing" which Venkys would authorise in exceptional circumstances.

Brereton still being here is a bonus, Brittain and Sammie decent enough start in captures, but we are still a long way off to being close to being a better squad this season, than the one that ended last season

 

[Iceman]

43 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

The lack of respect towards Dacky from some on here and other Rovers groups makes you wonder how many trolls we actually have on here. Anyone who thinks he is anything other than the best player we have at the club, and by some fucking distance, must have suffered some form of memory loss.

If he can stay fit, sure. 

[rigger]

41 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

The lack of respect towards Dacky from some on here and other Rovers groups makes you wonder how many trolls we actually have on here. Anyone who thinks he is anything other than the best player we have at the club, and by some fucking distance, must have suffered some form of memory loss.

Or on the other hand, you could be basing your view about Dack, on your memories. Not on the state of play, at present.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

9 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

If true, the two we've gone for are also cheaper than the other two are likely to be. That would be this hierarchy down to a tee.

Make do, it's alright, we can save a few quid. Stats look good.

That would be my take on it.  Leopard never changes its spots and all that.

[roversinmyblood]

6 minutes ago, imy9 said:

I would argue that the players were never fit enough to last two games a week playing that high press. It will be interesting to see if Rosen has an impact with our fitness levels this year.

agree about Dack being a second option from the bench.

It would seem that they appear to be fitter and having 5subs available each game so that he can freshen things up for the last 20mins will probably prolong the possible decline. However, it’s the knocks they pick up over a long season that will slow players down and they have to work as a unit otherwise it won’t work, so I think it’s almost inevitable plan B will be needed in the second half of the season. It happened to TM but he didn’t have a plan B. 

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

11 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

If true, the two we've gone for are also cheaper than the other two are likely to be. That would be this hierarchy down to a tee.

Make do, it's alright, we can save a few quid. Stats look good.

Or the money might be better spent elsewhere..?

[SuperBrfc]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Yeah I think many have taken the comments about players being fluid and expressing themselves and really have ran with it to the point whereby actual players thriving in their best position has gone out of the window! If Gallagher for examples keeps playing wide and I really hope he does not, in a couple of months, I suspect that people will stop overlooking that sort of thing regardless of any "fluid front 4" rhetoric when he continues to struggle.

Agreed. I think it was you who said it earlier, and it was spot on. All this talk of interchanging and being 'fluid' makes it MORE likely that we are going to see square pegs in round holes again. The very thing we were caning Mowbray for!

Honestly, this has the potential to be even worse than what Mowbray served up, and that would take some doing. We're looking at shuffling players across the front four, players who have little end product, little goal threat, little goal scoring ability and hoping it clicks.

This isn't going to end well, IMO.

[Paul Mani]

Fwiw, I’m certainly not writing Dack off. I know for a fact that the club were concerned very early on about Ayala and Dack fitting in with the new regime. I posted this at the time (around 5 days after JDT had been unveiled). Since then, this issue has started to play out more publicly and the weekend along with the signing of Szmodics in Dacks position plus the explanation given by GB around Szmodics make for an interesting dynamic…

That said I really hope that Dack forces his way in, runs around like a mad man and discovers his best form! He’s a brilliant player and was the best in the league pre-injury!

I’m pretty sure of one thing though, JDT won’t be relaxing his game plan / style for any player. Even Bradley Dack.

[Tricky]

49 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

The lack of respect towards Dacky from some on here and other Rovers groups makes you wonder how many trolls we actually have on here. Anyone who thinks he is anything other than the best player we have at the club, and by some fucking distance, must have suffered some form of memory loss.

there's equally a strange obsession from sone on here with 'Dacky' as our best player too...

if he isnt cut out for this team moving forward, he either needs to roll his sleeves up or be shown the door

 

[roversinmyblood]

8 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Dacks injuries have a been a nightmare, he hasnt looked the same player, but hasnt had the run of games either. Hopefully he can get fit and can impact, because on his day he's arguably our most gifted player.

Sammie has is all to prove at Championship, as his two previous attempts he has been more miss than hit, if the fee is to be believed, that's some gamble. 

I'm very much on the fence with his signing until I see what else arrives, I hope he is one of a number of signings and not the "marquee signing" which Venkys would authorise in exceptional circumstances.

Brereton still being here is a bonus, Brittain and Sammie decent enough start in captures, but we are still a long way off to being close to being a better squad this season, than the one that ended last season

 

Do you know whether Styles is still coming and is there any truth that we we enquired about bringing Bowler in?

[Nuttall is lost]

9 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Dacks injuries have a been a nightmare, he hasnt looked the same player, but hasnt had the run of games either. Hopefully he can get fit and can impact, because on his day he's arguably our most gifted player.

Sammie has is all to prove at Championship, as his two previous attempts he has been more miss than hit, if the fee is to be believed, that's some gamble. 

I'm very much on the fence with his signing until I see what else arrives, I hope he is one of a number of signings and not the "marquee signing" which Venkys would authorise in exceptional circumstances.

Brereton still being here is a bonus, Brittain and Sammie decent enough start in captures, but we are still a long way off to being close to being a better squad this season, than the one that ended last season

 

Jason Knight would have been a better purchase imo.  Similar but younger and a better player.  In League 1 with Derby currently.

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why do you keep going on about his work rate? Why would his work rate noticeably decline after injury?

His physical state of course could and my comments have always been subject to him making at least close to a full physical recovery. If he is nowhere near the same player, which we cannot possibly conclude yet, then obviously he may struggle to ever regain his place. 

Because these sorts of injuries take a hit on the body and IMO he will never been the same player as 2 and half years which you and others are basing your opiion on

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But assuming he does, I don't see why he couldn't participate in a pressing side, he is being talked about as if he is Andy Carroll. He has never been quick but he can press even if it would never have been his primary attribute like say a Dolan, who alternatively could only dream of being like Dack in the final third. He has scored goals when either he or a team mate has won the ball back high up in the past, 2 goals that spring to mind are West Brom away and Wigan at home a few seasons ago. The likes of Dolan/Szmodics/Hedges/Gallagher could perhaps be more integral/start the press but it is not as if Dack is a big immobile lump that couldn't help.

I think there is a lot of emphasis on him because if you remove him and Brereton, even allowing for another striker coming in which is far from certain, I don't see many goals at all in what remains. You can press all you want but you need to offer a regular and consistent goal threat.

You keep talking about the old pre injury Dack not the one now after 2 major injuries. Its the now and future that matters

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Regarding your question, I firmly believe that you build around your players and IF he makes a near full recovery, he is our best player so he takes the number 10 role and we must try to get the best out of him, even if there is a tinge of compromise tactically. But as previously mentioned, I don't see why that is totally at odds with what Tomasson has mentioned anyway.

Everything depends on his physical state to which you seem to have already made your mind up on.

You yet again keep saying our best player which is based on 2 and half years ago performances not now and under a different head coach who wants the team to play very different to Mowbray. JDT wants to very different style of play and structure different to Mowbray. 

Anyway I will leave it there cos it feels like we going around in circles.