Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

If we replaced Rothwell with Buckley, who played in the same side, who did we replace Buckley with?

Sammie Szmodics probably. in terms of positions on the pitch. 

[Andy]

If the premise of imminent first team Championship football at his young age isn’t enough for Phillips to sign a contract with us, I’d question whether he has the faith in his own ability.

I’m hoping that the Spurs thing is all rumours, he signs his contract here and proves his worth.

But the odds are currently in his favour to get some game time here, if he wants to stick around…

[roversfan99]

47 minutes ago, roverstdt said:

The problem need to be about managing expectation. Am I expecting promotion this year? Oh hell no! It is a year in transition we need to slowly build we haven’t got a Manchester City like war chest to buy our way out the league. So what do we have that no other or very little other clubs have in the league category 1 academy. Granted we can’t go up with kids, but kids will remain kids unless you give them minutes. If Garrett, Wharton, Markanday slowly build up The games they get this year we will have a solid 3 new additions to the team to push on next year. From their the addition of a Van Hecke Would be a master stroke by the club as Lenihan would be forgotten and overall the defence would have improved. I would arguably say that the midfield area has improved if Bucko steps up and I don’t think we will miss Johnson and Davenport. Let’s see where the window takes us. But I firmly agree with Gregg the only way we will be attractive to other young talent is by showing a path way to the first team which little clubs in the area can offer especially with the cat 1 status

Slow builds again, the same things Mowbray used to say and get lambasted for!

This league as much as any doesn't allow for slow builds. Most teams have a high playing staff turnover each season and we as much as anyone are reliant on the loan market and also find that our better players quickly become impossible to renew the contracts of financially.

We cannot just write off this season, the aim should again be the top 6, which as much as it would be exceeding general expectations based on resources etc is definitely not impossible, as Luton, Huddersfield and Barnsley have proved in recent years.

The stuff about a Man City like war chest and using the word "expecting" promotion is taking the argument to extremes that nobody has demanded, a straw man argument.

I don't get this desire to promote numerous academy graduates for immediate involvement all at once to plug gaps, its unrealistic and its not going to lead to winning matches because some won't make it. For example in midfield, I felt that we lacked quality last season beyond the main 2 but even then, Johnson v Boro and QPR and Davenport v Sheff United were called upon against decent opposition and stepped up. 

[roverstdt]

11 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

If we replaced Rothwell with Buckley, who played in the same side, who did we replace Buckley with?

Dack, Smozdic, Hedges, To name a few. On the wings we have Markanday, Dolan, Brereton, Gallagher and hedges who can play there. WE don't need to over crowd the midfield area at all. 

[roversfan99]

It's the centre of midfield that we look really light in, not the more attacking roles.

If Travis ever doesn't play, who is putting a tackle in?

[MarkBRFC]

8 minutes ago, Andy said:

If the premise of imminent first team Championship football at his young age isn’t enough for Phillips to sign a contract with us, I’d question whether he has the faith in his own ability.

I’m hoping that the Spurs thing is all rumours, he signs his contract here and proves his worth.

But the odds are currently in his favour to get some game time here, if he wants to stick around…

I don't think it's that. I think think it's simply pound signs and better career prospects.

Sure he will get some first teams games here this season, but he could sign for Spurs, quadruple or more his money qnd end up on loan in this division anyway playing regular games.

[roverstdt]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Slow builds again, the same things Mowbray used to say and get lambasted for!

This league as much as any doesn't allow for slow builds. Most teams have a high playing staff turnover each season and we as much as anyone are reliant on the loan market and also find that our better players quickly become impossible to renew the contracts of financially.

We cannot just write off this season, the aim should again be the top 6, which as much as it would be exceeding general expectations based on resources etc is definitely not impossible, as Luton, Huddersfield and Barnsley have proved in recent years.

The stuff about a Man City like war chest and using the word "expecting" promotion is taking the argument to extremes that nobody has demanded, a straw man argument.

I don't get this desire to promote numerous academy graduates for immediate involvement all at once to plug gaps, its unrealistic and its not going to lead to winning matches because some won't make it. For example in midfield, I felt that we lacked quality last season beyond the main 2 but even then, Johnson v Boro and QPR and Davenport v Sheff United were called upon against decent opposition and stepped up. 

Slow build is exactly what football is about though, Mowbray did take time himself and had a 3 year cycle and then pushed on the in second 3 year cycle. Yes the league has a high turnover of players none more so than for ourselves in this year transfer window having lost Lenihan, Nyambe, Johnson, Davenport. The reality is that we haven't just promoted from within the starting 11 is largely the same and 3m+ has been spent on two players coming with another 3 on the way. The answer of integrating youth is a valid one by no means is anyone saying they are starting every single league game. But what we they are offering is the chance to be apart of the 1st team squad to fight for the starting 11 which i am all for. 

[Gavrover]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It's the centre of midfield that we look really light in, not the more attacking roles.

If Travis ever doesn't play, who is putting a tackle in?

Garrett

[AllRoverAsia]

29 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Think Man U rammed that quote down his throat

Any other examples of at least 5 academy products emerging simultaneously and all going on to be league winners and full internationals.

I can't think of any. Maybe there is and no doubt you'll tell me.

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

Our DoF would do well to remember what Alan Hansen said, and it still applies today 27 years on:

"You can't win anything with kids".

Dreadful quote to use to back up your argument. It's gone down in folklore because the exact opposite happened. 

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

As soon as I see somebody hesitate to bring in quality because they 'don't want to block the pathways', that's when I know we are on to a loser. That is what Broughton displayed a few days ago, in my view.

An extreme example, as he was a top class manager, but remember when Wenger refused to properly replace Vieira, Henry and Co because he "didn't want to block the pathway of the youngsters"? They persisted with those youngsters and went to shit (relative to their ambitions) and have been floundering for 18 years without a league title.

In our case, we've been floundering for 12 years and look set to add a few more to that as Broughton feeds us some guff about a youth project and "measures of success".

I'm not convinced that any of this lot (aside from JDT, maybe) are serious about promotion. It looks like it is all about developing kids, getting them minutes and hoping to sell them on for big fees further down the line.

You only have to read/listen to Broughton's spiel to understand what he sees as success.

One of the first things he said when he arrived was that Rovers would have to overachieve to make it to the Premier League. Inspirational stuff and exactly what you want to hear.

Next, he talked about how almost 40 percent of the minutes played by the Rovers squad last season were from Academy players, and how that needed to be maintained this season. Why? Is the aim to win football matches and try and go up or to give minutes to youngsters and crow about how many first teamers are from the Academy?

On a podcast about his time at Bodo, he talks about how one of the ways of measuring success was by looking at the 'R number' of the Football Club. That is done at any stage, over a five year average, by looking at how many young players from the Academy are in the first team. The more, the better, for the 'R number'. What a load of bollocks! I thought football was about trying to be the best, though? I've obviously had it wrong for all of these years.

Just like the 40 percent quote about the Rovers first team, he proudly mentioned how Bodo had 35 percent of their first team made up of North Norwegians from their Academy. This guy will do stuff all, IMO, and won't help us to get promoted. As long as the youngsters are getting game time, it's all good.

Bear in mind, he turned up at Luton when they had just finished outside the play offs in the Championship. They went on to suffer three successive relegations whilst he was there. Not saying it was all on him, clearly. However, in his own words, he had the autonomy to implement the vision of the Academy. Three relegations. Yet he takes the fact that youngsters got first team football and brought increased financial value to the club as plusses. Three relegations, but the above are positives. That should serve as a warning sign, in my opinion.

We missed out on Anel, Davies, many of us are after Van Hecke and another quality defender. Will he want to 'block the pathway' for Carter and Phillips by bringing in a couple of quality defenders? I highly doubt it. I'm expecting another cheap loan back there.

Our DoF would do well to remember what Alan Hansen said, and it still applies today 27 years on:

"You can't win anything with kids".

As usual you are spot on.

I have given up on arguing the toss and admire your stamina.

Keep up the good work, I'm too old for this shit.

[Sweaty Gussets]

3 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

As usual you are spot on.

I have given up on arguing the toss and admire your stamina.

Keep up the good work, I'm too old for this shit.

What's he spot on about, out of interest?

[Tugayisgod]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It's the centre of midfield that we look really light in, not the more attacking roles.

If Travis ever doesn't play, who is putting a tackle in?

Morton, Garrett ?

[1864roverite]

7 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Any other examples of at least 5 academy products emerging simultaneously and all going on to be league winners and full internationals.

I can't think of any. Maybe there is and no doubt you'll tell me.

see below post,

[Exiled_Rover]

23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Slow builds again, the same things Mowbray used to say and get lambasted for!

This league as much as any doesn't allow for slow builds. Most teams have a high playing staff turnover each season and we as much as anyone are reliant on the loan market and also find that our better players quickly become impossible to renew the contracts of financially.

We cannot just write off this season, the aim should again be the top 6, which as much as it would be exceeding general expectations based on resources etc is definitely not impossible, as Luton, Huddersfield and Barnsley have proved in recent years.

The stuff about a Man City like war chest and using the word "expecting" promotion is taking the argument to extremes that nobody has demanded, a straw man argument.

I don't get this desire to promote numerous academy graduates for immediate involvement all at once to plug gaps, its unrealistic and its not going to lead to winning matches because some won't make it. For example in midfield, I felt that we lacked quality last season beyond the main 2 but even then, Johnson v Boro and QPR and Davenport v Sheff United were called upon against decent opposition and stepped up. 

Mowbray was lambasted because he slowly built nothing.

His team lived and died on the loan market.

[jim mk2]

2 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

 

You only have to read/listen to Broughton's spiel to understand what he sees as success.

One of the first things he said when he arrived was that Rovers would have to overachieve to make it to the Premier League.

It's this sort of stuff that makes you despair..... that somehow we'd be overachieving by getting to the PL when the likes of fourth division Bournemouth & Boscombe Athletic and Brentford are now seen as top flight clubs that we can no longer compete with

Broughton was either told to say this by Waggott and Co and if he wasn't he should be brought into line. What happened to confidence and ambition? Timidity and meek acceptance of our fate ....is this Jack Walker's legacy?

[Exiled_Rover]

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

It's this sort of stuff that makes you despair..... that somehow we'd be overachieving by getting to the PL when the likes of fourth division Bournemouth & Boscombe Athletic and Brentford are now seen as top flight clubs that we can no longer compete with

Broughton was either told to say this by Waggott and Co and if he wasn't he should be brought into line. What happened to confidence and ambition? Timidity and meek acceptance of our fate ....is this Jack Walker's legacy?

Unfortunately money has changed everything.

Bournemouth, Brentford et al have access to HUGE, competition spoiling, parachute payments to re-arm for a promotion bid. 

The landscape has changed, despite the fact they're nothing clubs.

[Sweaty Gussets]

30 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Slow builds again, the same things Mowbray used to say and get lambasted for!

Can you quote where JDT has mentioned 'slow builds'?

[Armchair supporter supremo]

2 hours ago, martonrover said:

Three months of which were the Summer break. He’s played thirty games in the last two seasons. Not great.

6 months was just a rough guestimate. Regardless though I think was available for  twice as many games as he played under wise old Mowbray. 

Probably just a little bit too big of a personality for mowbray to handle though. 

 

Still pretty insulting to the player to as good as say that he may as well not be here though especially as has currently one of our most important and influential players

Edited August 4, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[Ossydave]

24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It's the centre of midfield that we look really light in, not the more attacking roles.

If Travis ever doesn't play, who is putting a tackle in?

Morton and Garrett. Morton clearly ain't afraid to out a tackle in after THAT one against Leicester 😵

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

37 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Sammie Szmodics probably. in terms of positions on the pitch. 

According to Sharpe, SZmodic was Khadra's replacement..which puzzled me a bit as replacing Rothwell seems to have been overlooked.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 minute ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

According to Sharpe, SZmodic was Khadra's replacement..which puzzled me a bit as replacing Rothwell seems to have been overlooked.

Buckley has replaced Rothwell.

[Sweaty Gussets]

We have a Travis/Buckley midfield axis that is the envy of many clubs in the Championship. Both young lads, both from the Academy.

We also have another couple of Academy lads who are going to be in and around the 1st team squad over the next year or two and allowed to slowly develop and break into the first team.

This, it would seem, is a problem to some of our fans. 

Another huge problem seems to be Broughton, who has been at the club 5 minutes and has brought 3 players in - 2 of which are on a perm and just about to enter their best years. 

Strange days. 

 

 

[roversfan99]

26 minutes ago, roverstdt said:

Slow build is exactly what football is about though, Mowbray did take time himself and had a 3 year cycle and then pushed on the in second 3 year cycle. Yes the league has a high turnover of players none more so than for ourselves in this year transfer window having lost Lenihan, Nyambe, Johnson, Davenport. The reality is that we haven't just promoted from within the starting 11 is largely the same and 3m+ has been spent on two players coming with another 3 on the way. The answer of integrating youth is a valid one by no means is anyone saying they are starting every single league game. But what we they are offering is the chance to be apart of the 1st team squad to fight for the starting 11 which i am all for. 

It isn't, especially at Championship level.

Take last season, we finished 8th but far closer than in recent years to the play offs and we were right in with a shout and it took a collapse to miss out. Did that come as the culmination of a slow build? Not really, we sold our best player, lost a number of other important ones and had no reinvestment but in a poor league, sometimes things click into place, a couple of really good loans, a quality freebie, a new formation, a new manager, a sudden breakthough star, it can be one or a number of these factors. 

I can't abide by writing seasons off. And if that is what we are supposedly doing, surely you would be against ANY loans this season if it is purely a development one? Not withstanding that Morton is presumably seen as better than the kids we have which is logic that I can understand.

Thankfully all of the rhetoric coming from the manager and players seems to continue with the goal of aiming for the top 6. We are spending more money than last summer so why this would be the point of a written off development season makes no sense anyway. Look at Luton, Barnsley and Huddersfield, none of their success seasons necessarily followed a slow build.

It shouldn't be about building towards the end of a cycle. It should be underpinning that we have the academy running with individual players (not batches out of necessity) pushing into the first team as and when they are good enough, of constantly looking to develop and to potentially profit on assets, all continuous but with the constant seasonal aim of the top 6. 

12 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Mowbray was lambasted because he slowly built nothing.

His team lived and died on the loan market.

We will always be somewhat reliant on the loan market unfortunately, it wasn't something he chose to do because he preferred it.

6 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Can you quote where JDT has mentioned 'slow builds'?

He hasn't, my post was in response to the poster who had mentioned slow builds, not the manager.

[SBlue]

2 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

As soon as I see somebody hesitate to bring in quality because they 'don't want to block the pathways', that's when I know we are on to a loser. That is what Broughton displayed a few days ago, in my view.

An extreme example, as he was a top class manager, but remember when Wenger refused to properly replace Vieira, Henry and Co because he "didn't want to block the pathway of the youngsters"? They persisted with those youngsters and went to shit (relative to their ambitions) and have been floundering for 18 years without a league title.

In our case, we've been floundering for 12 years and look set to add a few more to that as Broughton feeds us some guff about a youth project and "measures of success".

I'm not convinced that any of this lot (aside from JDT, maybe) are serious about promotion. It looks like it is all about developing kids, getting them minutes and hoping to sell them on for big fees further down the line.

You only have to read/listen to Broughton's spiel to understand what he sees as success.

One of the first things he said when he arrived was that Rovers would have to overachieve to make it to the Premier League. Inspirational stuff and exactly what you want to hear.

Next, he talked about how almost 40 percent of the minutes played by the Rovers squad last season were from Academy players, and how that needed to be maintained this season. Why? Is the aim to win football matches and try and go up or to give minutes to youngsters and crow about how many first teamers are from the Academy?

On a podcast about his time at Bodo, he talks about how one of the ways of measuring success was by looking at the 'R number' of the Football Club. That is done at any stage, over a five year average, by looking at how many young players from the Academy are in the first team. The more, the better, for the 'R number'. What a load of bollocks! I thought football was about trying to be the best, though? I've obviously had it wrong for all of these years.

Just like the 40 percent quote about the Rovers first team, he proudly mentioned how Bodo had 35 percent of their first team made up of North Norwegians from their Academy. This guy will do stuff all, IMO, and won't help us to get promoted. As long as the youngsters are getting game time, it's all good.

Bear in mind, he turned up at Luton when they had just finished outside the play offs in the Championship. They went on to suffer three successive relegations whilst he was there. Not saying it was all on him, clearly. However, in his own words, he had the autonomy to implement the vision of the Academy. Three relegations. Yet he takes the fact that youngsters got first team football and brought increased financial value to the club as plusses. Three relegations, but the above are positives. That should serve as a warning sign, in my opinion.

We missed out on Anel, Davies, many of us are after Van Hecke and another quality defender. Will he want to 'block the pathway' for Carter and Phillips by bringing in a couple of quality defenders? I highly doubt it. I'm expecting another cheap loan back there.

Our DoF would do well to remember what Alan Hansen said, and it still applies today 27 years on:

"You can't win anything with kids".

Personally, I think it’s a good thing that our DOF is talking about a strategy that will make the most of our excellent existing resources and provide a healthy and sustainable model for a club of our size going forwards.

Last thing I wanted to hear was “we’re gonna invest millions into established players we can’t really afford, roll the dice and hope we go up to pay for it”

Our advantage in this league IS the academy. It has to be the main focus of the direction we go in.