Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

18 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

i honestly think if venkys gave jdt half a billion quid to spend and he bought 11 internationals there would still be moaners on here🤔

...well yes because we would no doubt be signing them from Gibraltar, Andorra and San Marino. 

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Cool. What are his best attributes?

I will let you make your own judgement when he is in Rovers colour of Blue and White

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Initially it was 5 or 6, why has it now gone to 7 or 8? (The 3 already here plus 4 or 5)

No chance of 4 or 5 signings by the way.

I don't think we would sign another number 10 but we did so that 1 increase and then from judgement made from the opening 6 games. 

why aren't we going to 4 or 5 signings before the deadline? 

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why does it always come down to pigeon holing people as "negative" or having the wrong attitude should a potential signing not excite them.

Why can't someone pass comment on a player prior to signing, assuming of course that they are open minded to changing that view if and when he joins?

If we tried to spend big money on Yakubu right now, would you comment on that being underwhelming or refuse to say anything w

why keep being so judgement from the start and especially when a hour or 2 ago he didn't even know the player was. 

Yakubu retired 5 years ago but I wouldn't make such comments on judgements on players I never heard of a hour or 2 ago. I would look to do some research or wait to he has played in Rovers Blue and White shirt 

[Galgaterover10]

10 minutes ago, martonrover said:

So why sell to a Championship rival if his club rates him?

Same argument about raya to Brentford…worked out pretty well for him and them!

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, imy9 said:

You said he has limitations on the ball, have you seen him play? I’ll be honest I haven’t. However someone sent an excellent link a few pages and it showed that he is in the top 5% of players in this league for progressive passes.

based on what I have read he is not really a Lenihan style player. So with him Ayala, Wharton, Carter and Phillips we would have enough CBs. He is also comfortable in a back 3 another advantage.

 

Yeah but not as much as I have Van Den Berg. None of those 3 Coventry defenders I mentioned have ever seemed particular graceful on the ball, Hyam included, maybe he is deceptively good in possession. Although stats like that I have a number of issues with personally.

Highlighted lots of potential positives to be fair in the deal, certainly not firmly against the deal by any means.

1 minute ago, JacknOry said:

What i do not understand is why this deal will hamper the VDB deal? It was always clear we were looking for two CBs, one perm and one loan. VDB will be ahead of Carter and Phillips - plus he will get in a back 3. Ayala will need rotating if he wants to stay fit (he wont anyway). VDB will get plenty of time - plus can cover RB. 

Maybe Liverpool would be reluctant to give him to us with such competition.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I will let you make your own judgement when he is in Rovers colour of Blue and White

I don't think we would sign another number 10 but we did so that 1 increase and then from judgement made from the opening 6 games. 

why aren't we going to 4 or 5 signings before the deadline? 

why keep being so judgement from the start and especially when a hour or 2 ago he didn't even know the player was. 

Yakubu retired 5 years ago but I wouldn't make such comments on judgements on players I never heard of a hour or 2 ago. I would look to do some research or wait to he has played in Rovers Blue and White shirt 

So if we signed Yakubu now, you wouldn't be thinking, bloody hell no thanks he is too old? 

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No, Ayala doesn't have pace. Ayala is limited on the ball and is massively injury prone. Excellent defender at this level though.

From the limited times I have seen Hyam and what I have gathered, there are numerous positives and negatives to him too:

Good injury record, probably the best defender at a similar Championship club, good experience, good age, permanent transfer

Not the quickest and limited on the ball which goes against our supposed intended style, potentially harms the Van Den Berg deal

Problem being, you only consider the positives, and shout people down who dare suggest any doubts, whilst repeating how your "glass half full" attitude has seen you do so well in life.

how can people have doubts about the signing when the person who posted his doubts didn't even know who the player was a hour or 2 ago? strange attitude and mentality to have tbh. 

No I tried to not be over judgemental from the day one on a player unless I know enough about the player. 

Agree with your points about his age, experience, permanent transfer. Also he can play in back 3 aswell as back 4. 

[JacknOry]

Cant say anything about this guy as never even heard of him tbh. Seems robust considering the games he has played last two seasons. Does seem a bit steep when others are buying the likes of Clarke/Davies for the same money. 

[chaddyrovers]

16 minutes ago, martonrover said:

So why sell to a Championship rival if his club rates him?

ask Coventry and Mark Robins. 

Maybe the fee could help them make their pitch payable so they could play games at home. 

Also maybe they could use that money for a couple of cheap signings

[martonrover]

15 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Because they're skint. 

👍 Fair enough.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

So if we signed Yakubu now, you wouldn't be thinking, bloody hell no thanks he is too old? 

he retired 5 years ago. 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

how can people have doubts about the signing when the person who posted his doubts didn't even know who the player was a hour or 2 ago? strange attitude and mentality to have tbh. 

No I tried to not be over judgemental from the day one on a player unless I know enough about the player. 

Agree with your points about his age, experience, permanent transfer. Also he can play in back 3 aswell as back 4. 

Agree with the positives, dismiss any doubts. Got it.

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

The vast majority of the debt is to the owners. It is interest free with no date for repayment. It will only ever be paid back if they decide they want to try and claim it, which isn't going to happen.

It has absolutely no bearing on our ability to sign players right now.

Low turnover - admittedly a big problem - but one which the Club and owners have done next to nothing to address for going on 10 years. The reciept of £15 million from AA and soon to be £15 million for BBD in the space of 12 months comfortably outweighs any hindrance we have from lower income and turnover than rivals.

I didn't say it was easy to identify these players. But the club is employing 'experts' on huge salaries to run this. So the self-pity its ever so hard line I don't buy. We can offer much more or at least should be able to offer much more than dross like Blackpool, Luton, PNE, Wigan, Millwall and the like yet it appears not. The alternative to not getting the 'right' player is not to sign nobody at all.

I see you are a 'jam tomorrow' member - so now we can't judge the summer window because it is too early for the new super structure to be measured on? Carry on at this rate JDT will walk - he's obviously getting fed up - and then we can start from scratch again next summer and it will be too early then to form opinions.

Speaking of half baked conspiracies - what would it take for you to believe the simple yet seemingly unpalatable possibility that our problems are simply a result of disinterested owners who have turned the money taps down to such a trickle we can barely operate at this level?

Instead it seems preferable to believe in every other possibility going - club reputation, FFP, turnover, debt, too early for Broughton, poor us

On the debt initially - what is it? 250m+? Is that about 20m a season “invested?”One of the reasons why I’d always consider that aspect in our financial management, is the prospect of “life after Venkys” - in basic terms, the lower this amount, the better, where a sale is concerned. We all want that, surely?

In terms of PNE / Blackpool / Millwall comparison - have they made any business you think we should’ve been all over? Also those teams all have lower expectations and probably different lists where transfers are concerned.

Whereas it’s conceivable we’re trying to find the options available lower premier league, higher wages etc - and it’s also conceivable those sort of talents are on others lists; Anel.

I acknowledge and share the frustration of playing this waiting game, but I’d hold the system accountable more than competence at this point, especially where GB and JDT are concerned. The idea of having a window closing after 8 games is ludicrous for a start, the gap between wages and sponsorship between 20th and 21st in the football pyramid is a another big issue.

On the “Jam tomorrow” thing - surely there is some middle ground? I know “give x amount of windows” is almost a cliche round here now, but time has to be given.

Finally on the conspiracy stuff; I agree already on the disinterested owners but in terms of the money aspect, their spend is there to see. It’s been mishandled, their making, a vacuum between club and final decision maker, but it’s never been a trickle.

If you’re suggesting we forget about rules / regulations and spend whatever we want, sponsor whatever, basically force their way round the system - that would be nice, but competition (due to that premier league sponsorship) is so fierce, we could end up like many of the big city clubs (Derby and Sheff Wed as we speak) who’ve fallen foul to the point they can’t even offer players contracts.

I know Mowbray drove everyone mental with his “Journey” bollox, but there’s definitely something in his descriptions of slowly building up players to sell, to enable us to actually spend (wages and Fees) without the possibility of sanction.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Agree with the positives, dismiss any doubts. Got it.

Yet again you missed the main point of the post about the poster opinion based he didn't even know him a hour or 2 ago. anyway I moving on 

 

[callumrovers]

29 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Unsure what to make of the Hyam potential deal. Coventry are one of Sky's less fancied teams and they concede a lot of goals as a team and have a number of quite slow centre backs in Hyam, Rose and McFadzean.

I always think it is useful to gauge opinions of the fans who have seen him week in, week out. Like with Szmodics, there is a common theme that they would rather sell him than others in the squad and that the fee is decent, albeit they certainly aren't as keen as Peterborough fans were to let him go and they are very commonly suggesting that he is their best defender and would leave a big hole. 

Style wise, his lack of pace and limitations on the ball don't really tally with the supposed fluid, energetic style that we want to play (perhaps a symptom of not having the manager choose the players?) but as a more no nonsense defender, hopefully he likes to keep clean sheets, more than he has in the last 2 seasons!

He would be a permanent signing, is a good age being experienced but also coming into his peak so that goes in his favour and he also has played consistently over the last 2 seasons at mid table Championship level.

The LT suggests that it could be Hyam only in defence with the deal for Van Den Berg who is very good at this level potentially falling through. I am not convinced that Hyam, Wharton, Ayala and Carter is anything other than a significant downgrade on last season. We also cannot hold off signing players to try and guarantee Phillips game time because he isn't ready for Championship football yet.

Could this deal not have been done a week or two earlier? Probably.

Actually sounds like he’s a ball playing defender. Best not to assume he’s a no nonsense defender. As for limitations on the ball - the below is from a Coventry fan with stats to back it up.

I suggest he has slot more knowledge of the player than you. This is signing you want to make if you want to keep the ball and dominate.

 

 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, JBiz said:

On the debt initially - what is it? 250m+? Is that about 20m a season “invested?”One of the reasons why I’d always consider that aspect in our financial management, is the prospect of “life after Venkys” - in basic terms, the lower this amount, the better, where a sale is concerned. We all want that, surely?

In terms of PNE / Blackpool / Millwall comparison - have they made any business you think we should’ve been all over? Also those teams all have lower expectations and probably different lists where transfers are concerned.

Whereas it’s conceivable we’re trying to find the options available lower premier league, higher wages etc - and it’s also conceivable those sort of talents are on others lists; Anel.

I acknowledge and share the frustration of playing this waiting game, but I’d hold the system accountable more than competence at this point, especially where GB and JDT are concerned. The idea of having a window closing after 8 games is ludicrous for a start, the gap between wages and sponsorship between 20th and 21st in the football pyramid is a another big issue.

On the “Jam tomorrow” thing - surely there is some middle ground? I know “give x amount of windows” is almost a cliche round here now, but time has to be given.

Finally on the conspiracy stuff; I agree already on the disinterested owners but in terms of the money aspect, their spend is there to see. It’s been mishandled, their making, a vacuum between club and final decision maker, but it’s never been a trickle.

If you’re suggesting we forget about rules / regulations and spend whatever we want, sponsor whatever, basically force their way round the system - that would be nice, but competition (due to that premier league sponsorship) is so fierce, we could end up like many of the big city clubs (Derby and Sheff Wed as we speak) who’ve fallen foul to the point they can’t even offer players contracts.

I know Mowbray drove everyone mental with his “Journey” bollox, but there’s definitely something in his descriptions of slowly building up players to sell, to enable us to actually spend (wages and Fees) without the possibility of sanction.

2 problems with the journey thing:

Firstly, the Championship is very volatile in that there is a big reliance on loans and a constant high player turnover by most teams.

On polishing assets to sell on, Mowbray was right. Sadly, Venkys have never consistently committed to such a plan, sometimes preventing any reinvestment, sometimes interfering to block sales of assets, so this will never happen under Venkys barring an unexpected change.

1 minute ago, callumrovers said:

Actually sounds like he’s a ball playing defender. Best not to assume he’s a no nonsense defender. As for limitations on the ball - the below is from a Coventry fan with stats to back it up.

I suggest he has slot more knowledge of the player than you. This is signing you want to make if you want to keep the ball and dominate.

 

 

I wouldn't argue that he doesn't know much more about Hyam than me, so thanks for this thread, very encouraging.

What he is like on the ball was mentioned a couple of times on here and when I have seen Coventry their defence in general has been fairly limited on the ball, but its not comparable to how many times these people have seen him. See thread below:

https://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/dom-hyam-blackburn-bid.144553/page-2

Certainly not getting the same vibe from Peterborough fans who were even polled about Szmodics and 80% said take the offer.

[rovers11]

As the LT are reporting that Rovers are hopeful of doing a deal, I'd say this one is close and will get done. The LT are usually very quick to squash rumours. 

I know nothing about him but if he's the sort of defender who will add some muscle, head and kick everything that comes his way, and will generally be nasty to play against then he'll be ideal. We're far too soft and easy to bully at the moment. 

[J*B]

I didn’t even realise Coventry where in our league, so I’ll reserve judgement on him as a player, for now. Someone should probably let him know I’ve written Vale off after 3 games though, so he won’t be afforded much time. 

[jim mk2]

59 minutes ago, Tugay Et Labore said:

If we offer Lenihan a 4 year deal on £15k  a week more so we could guarantee he signs, that works out at an extra £3,120,000 over the 4 years. Then he’s the best paid and that’s the benchmark for our top performers. They then want that amount because we’re paying it to one player so we should pay it to them too. The wages could easily spiral or we don’t pay the player what they want and they bugger off anyway to a club that will pay it. 
 

We’re attempting to replace like for like by paying small fees and lower wages than the players that left wanted. It makes financial sense but it won’t half make it a struggle to get out of this division.

It wasn't anything like £15,000 a week more, as I was reliably informed

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I will let you make your own judgement when he is in Rovers colour of Blue and White

Well batted 👏

[Ossydave]

Matt Clarke cost around 2.5m, we should be paying around the same. Coventry will end up accepting I think, no-mark owners will just see a few quid to pocket. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

They will be taking their long bank holiday weekend. So in my mind there are only 3 days left and a game in there to distract.

 

BBD goes on the last day with "no time to replace". We sign literally nobody then Ayala and Philips pick up injuries next weekend.

This is easily the most likely scenario.

[Miller11]

Proven centre half at this level sounds good to me. We need one through the door urgently.

There should be an expectation with a fee like that. 2.5 million isn’t insignificant to us these days, and when we lose good, proven players on frees or for peanuts we have to make sure the players we do spends are good uns.

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

So you believe what Waggott says. Count yourself in a minority of one

I didn't say I believed him. I was just outlining why your  'why didn't we just keep Lenihan' analysis was simplistic at best. 

[islander200]

20 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It wasn't anything like £15,000 a week more, as I was reliably informed

In the end Lenihen was offered 22k per week that was from his mouth 

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 hours ago, RoverDom said:

When the prostate exam comes make sure you can't see both hands... 

I had one recently.

After he slipped the glove of love on and inserted his finger he said 'please don't be alarmed, involuntary erections are normal'

I said 'I haven't got an erection'

He said 'I know but I have'

Disgusting. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Sounds like Hyam has been on the backburner for a while but has come to the surface because all our other better options - the Vans etc - have closed.

Someone explain why we're forking out £2.5m for a like for like replacement for Lenihan (who is possibly not as good) when we could have kept Lenihan if we'd paid him a bit more and would have cost us over the course of his new lengthy contract something like £2.5m?

The figures are from an expert quoting Waggott - so they need to be treated with caution

 

 

Why so passive-aggressive. I was just relaying what he said. Is it the acronym thing that's still stinging a bit?

Edited August 25, 2022 by Sweaty Gussets