Mowbray, the summer and beyond

[Gav]

6 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

That's fair enough, but that's a list that includes Paul Ince. 

 

I know he's got his problems, but there's no way of squaring 'he's the worst manager in the league' with our results this year. Or the last four years for that matter. 

I read posts on this side of the forum and have to wonder, at times, if serious infiltration from opposing fans has taken place. The hostility and anger towards this manger is worse than anything reserved for king rat who was an absolute ****.

 

[Upside Down]

7 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

I was interested to hear Mowbray's terminology in his interview before the Millwall game. He was talking about Brereton possibly going to Chile while not being fit to play for Rovers.

Mowbray said ( from memory) "I can't influence the situation sat in my office with the owner's conduit".

I presume he is referring to Suhail Pasha but I find it interesting that he did not call him the owner's representative or advisor/spokesman/official. There are so many factors that make it impossible to run the club effectively under Venky's.

I can imagine the same situation on transfer deadline day when all other clubs would have all hands to the pump. Mowbray is sat in his office with a 'conduit' to people who are fast asleep in India and probably wouldn't respond if they were awake.

I'd be ecstatic with a return to the Don MacKay / Bill Fox  / no money period instead of multi billionaire owners with no interest who only communicate through a conduit.

 

I would snap your hands off to have that.

[simongarnerisgod]

5 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I would snap your hands off to have that.

id`e settle for the north west counties playing euxton villa if it meant we got shut of the indians,the club is`nt at the heart of the town anymore and has`nt been since that lot took over

[Bbrovers2288]

24 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

That's fair enough, but that's a list that includes Paul Ince. 

 

I know he's got his problems, but there's no way of squaring 'he's the worst manager in the league' with our results this year. Or the last four years for that matter. 

Well done you found one but I think he is only interim until the summer 

[Bbrovers2288]

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My point was that you had specifically mentioned the last 2 months/2022 and our poor form. I could flip that and say how amazing we was for the 2 months prior, that is the flaw with picking out a couple of months amidst a 9 month season to suit an agenda. It all levels out and we are 4th at the moment so its been a very good season so far over 7 months, lets see where we are after 9 and praise/criticise based on that, rather than fixating on runs of form to suit our arguments.

It isn't, I would suggest that the answer perhaps lies between good and bad.

I would agree that he has also surprised me, but that job is a unique one, there is no pressure, even relegation can be a symbol of a good job if it is brave, he can play the everyone is against us card so it is hard to judge fully.

We have had poor form in spells throughout his tenure , you can pick any of them!! This isn’t just a new opinion I have formed it’s been years. This is the mowbray way, get something that works and has initial success then teams get wise to it and he doesn’t understand how it’s not working anymore , blindly doing the same until injury’s force his hand 

[chaddyrovers]

59 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I think he’s a good manager Chaddy - he has the respect of the players and could probably attract good players to the club. 
I’ve been impressed by the way he’s gone about his business, and slightly surprised to be honest.

Thanks for reply. 

28 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

It’s very good news that Travis has signed a new deal. I’m both delighted and surprised.

Its not “excellent work by Rovers” though, it’s doing the fundamentals. How come you are being so effusive with your praise for this particular negotiation while absolving the club of any blame for the situation we are in with other players?

Of course it's excellent work by the club and the Travis wants to stay to the club cos its means alot to him and he owe Rovers alot as he has said today after signing his new contract

Depends why those 3 players haven't sign a new contract? Do you know the exact reasons why they havent? Does Rothwell want to move back south for family reasons for example? Does Lenihan want to play in PL before his career ends for example? 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

18 minutes ago, Gav said:

I read posts on this side of the forum and have to wonder, at times, if serious infiltration from opposing fans has taken place. The hostility and anger towards this manger is worse than anything reserved for king rat who was an absolute ****.

 

no it isnt!

 

People have very calm rational reasons for wanting a change of manager which they've explained thoroughly, you are the one blowing it out of proportion by comparing it to the Kean freak show.

[Mattyblue]

If folk think it needs refreshing for next season, especially if we fall away over the next two months, fair enough.

But ‘worst manager in the league’. Come off it. His record in this division with the budgets he’s had shows that isn’t remotely true and is an example to how some on here have lost all objectivity with TM, and I’ve no idea why he riles some of you to such a degree…

Edited March 11, 2022 by Mattyblue

[roverandout]

4 hours ago, FortressEwood said:

Some managers ripped us off
Some managers said the fans spiked their drink.
Some managers had us in freefall
Some managers threw their rattle when they didn't get the funds they demanded.
This manager has made us a top six team in the Championship.

Mowbray ripped us off with pointless tippy tappy football wasting 3 year

Mowbray has a free fall every season 

Mowbray set fans on fans with his comments 

Mowbray doesn’t like spending as he doesn't have an excuse for failure 

[JHRover]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks for reply. 

Of course it's excellent work by the club and the Travis wants to stay to the club cos its means alot to him and he owe Rovers alot as he has said today after signing his new contract

Depends why those 3 players haven't sign a new contract? Do you know the exact reasons why they havent? Does Rothwell want to move back south for family reasons for example? Does Lenihan want to play in PL before his career ends for example? 

Not that old chestnut again. You pulled this one with Harrison Reed saying his girlfriend couldn't cope with him playing in the NW (as though he'd refuse a move to City, United, Liverpool on that basis).

Rothwell is from Manchester and other than a couple of seasons at Oxford has spent his entire career in the NW at United, Barnsley, Blackpool and Rovers. His girlfriend is from the Midlands and he's got two young children. So when and why would he want to 'move back south for family reasons?'

He will move where he gets the best offer - financially or otherwise - for him and his family. 

He will know that Rovers aren't offering him that, so he will go elsewhere. Rovers could have prevented this by dealing with his situation last season when he wanted his future sorting. He wanted to know where he stood this time last year as his original contract was expiring. Rovers unilaterally invoked his 12 month option which has blown any chance of a new long term deal.

That has Waggott's grubby fingerprints all over it.

[roversfan99]

15 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Mowbray ripped us off with pointless tippy tappy football wasting 3 year

Mowbray has a free fall every season 

Mowbray set fans on fans with his comments 

Mowbray doesn’t like spending as he doesn't have an excuse for failure 

So you think that Venkys have been willing to spend money and Mowbray has been unwilling to, unquestioned, because he wants an excuse? 

Sets fans on fans? Only to the most paranoid of people.

Ripped us off with tippy tappy football for 3 years? I certainly wouldnt describe our first season back with Graham winning player of the season as "tippy tappy."

[roverandout]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

So you think that Venkys have been willing to spend money and Mowbray has been unwilling to, unquestioned, because he wants an excuse? 

Sets fans on fans? Only to the most paranoid of people.

Ripped us off with tippy tappy football for 3 years? I certainly wouldnt describe our first season back with Graham winning player of the season as "tippy tappy."

He critised fans who questioned his performances and results which was to create a divide in the fanbase

[Miller11]

53 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Of course it's excellent work by the club and the Travis wants to stay to the club cos its means alot to him and he owe Rovers alot as he has said today after signing his new contract

Depends why those 3 players haven't sign a new contract? Do you know the exact reasons why they havent? Does Rothwell want to move back south for family reasons for example? Does Lenihan want to play in PL before his career ends for example? 

See @JHRover’s post above.

The other day you told me that not agreeing deals and losing Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe would not be a failing on the clubs part, but when they do sign someone up to an extension they have performed excellent work.

Keeping your players tied down, and/or selling them at the opportune time is absolutely key to our reported operating model. Getting it right is bread and butter, getting it wrong is a disaster.

You’d shrug it off as “just nature” if we let the grass on Ewood grow to a foot high, but praise the groundsman for painting the lines on the pitch.

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

Mowbray told us the owners wanted to fund a double promotion back in 2018. He told them to calm down and put their money away and that a slow build was needed.

Waggott in 2018 says "the owners have been very generous to us and now it's time for us to give them something back". Followed up by "we can't keep asking them to spend more money each time".

Mowbray, more than once, has said "we had money to spend, I chose not to spend it". Ditto with the striker comment from this January.

What did Mowbray say last season, I think it was, or the year before. We need a £100m budget to get promoted and that was rubbished on here by many. Putting it out there that money is the reason why we can't possibly go up.

We've been told that the owners never refuse to sign a cheque. That doesn't tally up with what the two L1 operators are telling us. Somebody is lying to us. Either it's that pair or whoever told us that the owners will spend, if asked.

Venkys refused to authorise a 2m cost (no FFP excuse) earlier this season. Mowbray said that in January that teams were offering him strikers on loan but that he didnt take any because they didnt fit his system, hardly a warchest. Mowbray throughout last summer said that he wanted some of the Armstrong money to reinvest "and polish an asset" but that Venkys had it tough so wouldnt allow it.

Much of what you say sounds like self preservation knowing thay they cant slag their owners off in public. The 100m spiel was just Mowbray talking rubbish because at the time he was struggling, not literal.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

Not that old chestnut again. You pulled this one with Harrison Reed saying his girlfriend couldn't cope with him playing in the NW (as though he'd refuse a move to City, United, Liverpool on that basis).

Rothwell is from Manchester and other than a couple of seasons at Oxford has spent his entire career in the NW at United, Barnsley, Blackpool and Rovers. His girlfriend is from the Midlands and he's got two young children. So when and why would he want to 'move back south for family reasons?'

Funny thing is it was yourself who posted Reed's girlfriend didn't want to live up here. 

I am fully aware of that thanks JH already as it all in the public domain due to Instagram. 

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

He will move where he gets the best offer - financially or otherwise - for him and his family. 

He will know that Rovers aren't offering him that, so he will go elsewhere. Rovers could have prevented this by dealing with his situation last season when he wanted his future sorting. He wanted to know where he stood this time last year as his original contract was expiring. Rovers unilaterally invoked his 12 month option which has blown any chance of a new long term deal.

Let's see where he moved to and if he gets a better deal elsewhere. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

The other day you told me that not agreeing deals and losing Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe would not be a failing on the clubs part, but when they do sign someone up to an extension they have performed excellent work

It's not the club's fault. They have offered improved contract offers to all 3 which they haven't sign.

Look at how quick the Travis new contract talks took and similar to Kaminski. 

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

Keeping your players tied down, and/or selling them at the opportune time is absolutely key to our reported operating model. Getting it right is bread and butter, getting it wrong is a disaster.

But if players refuse to sign them what do we do? Would you sold them last summer for example?

[Miller11]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It's not the club's fault. They have offered improved contract offers to all 3 which they haven't sign.

Look at how quick the Travis new contract talks took and similar to Kaminski. 

But if players refuse to sign them what do we do? Would you sold them last summer for example?

Last summer was far too late. We’ve allowed the whole thing to drag on for far too long and not negotiated properly/at all. We’ve used Covid as an excuse and instead of engaging early and keeping our assets under contract we’ve tried to do things on the cheap. Triggering those extra years is proof of that - quite why we had that clause instead of offering a proper, secure contact in the first place, I don’t know.

As usual you are repeating a little line you like… that they have been offered improved contracts that they won’t sign.

Improved could mean many things. The only thing we do know with any certainty is that the improvements haven’t been enough to tempt them to sign. Bearing in mind Rothwell came from Oxford and Nyambe through the academy, they will currently be on very low wages, at best a third of what we pay Sam Gallagher. Doubling their current offers would not be an increase commensurate with their talents or status in the squad. Our offers may be competitive, but they are far more likely to be insulting.

If the players were completely averse to signing new terms, we would have been aware of this for a long time, and we should’ve sold them - “the model” supposedly relies on this.

However, Waggott and co clearly believe that the players are open to staying, but they seem unwilling to budge on their offers and are now stuck in a  dangerous and frankly stupid bluff calling attempt.

It’s now becoming pretty evident that we should’ve sold Rothwell in January. Mowbray clearly thought so. Maybe he’d even have bought a striker that everyone except him and you can see we could really do with.

You also seem pretty certain that none of these players could possibly be offered a better deal than the one Rovers currently have on the table for them. Despite having no clue what those offers look like, you seem to think you know better than them and their agents what they might command.

[JHRover]

59 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Funny thing is it was yourself who posted Reed's girlfriend didn't want to live up here. 

I am fully aware of that thanks JH already as it all in the public domain due to Instagram. 

Let's see where he moved to and if he gets a better deal elsewhere. 

I'm sorry? I think I've been on here many many times rubbishing the suggestion that you put forward that the only reason we couldn't keep Reed was because his girlfriend didn't fancy it up north.

I was keen on signing Reed permanently and Southampton were open for a deal. I would have preferred we paid £5 million for him than Gallagher, yet you came along and said there was no way on earth that could ever have happened because his girlfriend wanted to be on the south coast. I pointed out that was a ridiculous attitude for a professional footballer who would have no such qualms if facing a PL move to City, United, Liverpool

It seems to be one of your favourites from the book of excuses - absolve the club of any responsibility and pile it all on uncontrollable elements that we can't do anything about. Just blame family reasons and that will avoid anyone at Rovers being responsible.

My understanding of the situation is that Rothwell was keen on a new deal this time last year and wanted to sort his future out with Rovers. That fell on deaf ears and nothing was done until we suddenly triggered the 12 month extension. This of course fits with the radio silence from the club, no news about anything, no signings and Mowbray not knowing what he was doing. So not baseless conspiracy but actually a reasoned explanation.

I suspect Rothwell will have been quite unhappy about that - firstly that the club made no effort to keep him long term, secondly that he didn't know if he was being retained, released or sold last summer and thirdly that he was forced to stay for just another 12 months on the same salary. Once that had happened (if that's the way of things) I can completely understand him telling Rovers where to go.

Waggott probably felt very good about himself and his clause when doing that last summer - come back to bite him and us.

I suspect the same or very similar applies to Nyambe.

[Upside Down]

Mowbray out.

Waggott out.

Venkys out.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

Mowbray out.

Waggott out.

Venkys out.

That reminds me, my septic tank needs emptying.

[chaddyrovers]

 

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I'm sorry? I think I've been on here many many times rubbishing the suggestion that you put forward that the only reason we couldn't keep Reed was because his girlfriend didn't fancy it up north.

I was keen on signing Reed permanently and Southampton were open for a deal. I would have preferred we paid £5 million for him than Gallagher, yet you came along and said there was no way on earth that could ever have happened because his girlfriend wanted to be on the south coast. I pointed out that was a ridiculous attitude for a professional footballer who would have no such qualms if facing a PL move to City, United, Liverpool

It was you who posted that info on the forum. Here the link for you 

https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/33765-summer-transfer-window-2019/?do=findComment&comment=1960681

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

It’s now becoming pretty evident that we should’ve sold Rothwell in January. Mowbray clearly thought so. Maybe he’d even have bought a striker that everyone except him and you can see we could really do with.

Yes Mowbray want the money to sign 2 midfielders as he said in his interview with Andy Bayes. Venkys said no deal. 

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

You also seem pretty certain that none of these players could possibly be offered a better deal than the one Rovers currently have on the table for them. Despite having no clue what those offers look like, you seem to think you know better than them and their agents what they might command.

They might get a better deal wage wise elsewhere but will it at a better club? Plus is the agent advising the right thing to do. 

But I am sure we will have targets in mind to replace Nyambe and Rothwell with if they don't stay and sign new contracts here for next season and beyond. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by chaddyrovers

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

That reminds me, my septic tank needs emptying.

Sludge out!

[Miller11]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Mowbray want the money to sign 2 midfielders as he said in his interview with Andy Bayes. Venkys said no deal. 

They might get a better deal wage wise elsewhere but will it at a better club? Plus is the agent advising the right thing to do. 

But I am sure we will have targets in mind to replace Nyambe and Rothwell with if they don't stay and sign new contracts here for next season and beyond. 

You can’t see anything from anyone else’s point of view. To you there is no better club than Blackburn Rovers. Fine. But these players aren’t fans.

The agents will be advising them to do the best thing for their finances in the short, medium and long term. To suggest anything else is very silly.

[47er]

15 hours ago, Gav said:

The hostility and anger towards this manger is worse than anything reserved for king rat who was an absolute ****.

 

No it isn't. Ludicrous claim.