Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[smiller14]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Firstly, no one is getting arrogant! 

We played well in more than 3 games for me. Yes we had some poor performances like Sheffield United or Luton games, but I would say Both Fulham games, Reading away and Forest game was much worst performances or even the Derby (first half) and Stoke home games were much worse than this season performances. 

Blackpool game was only, ok? I'm shocked by that response. Watford game we were very good. 

I have answered your questions posed to me. 

Venkys or anyone at Rovers isn't sacking JDT when we are 6th in the league after 12 games. 

I don't think the majority of games mentioned there were worse than the 4 away games I mentioned. We looked absolutely toothless in all 4. We created nothing and the scoreline flattered us in all 4.

What games have we played well in then? I'd say Watford, Swansea (ably assisted by an awful home team) and Blackpool. QPR and West Brom we weren't awful but we certainly rode our luck in the latter and created nothing in the former - 0-0 would have been a fair result.

The other 7 have been largely abysmal. We scraped past a very poor Millwall team, got absolutely pasted at Cardiff, Sheff Utd, Luton and Reading, could have been out of sight at half time vs Bristol City and Stoke. We've shown signs but I think we've been very poor more often than we've been good. You will obviously disagree.

 

[smiller14]

My main concern is that our downturn in form seems to be accelerating as the system JDT wants to play is bedding in more. This indicates a real struggle to adjust to it. We need to adjust very quickly, as it's an unforgiving league and any long-term strategy/'project' goes out of the window if we become embroiled at the wrong end of the table. 

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, smiller14 said:

I don't think the majority of games mentioned there were worse than the 4 away games I mentioned.

I'm surprised by that but I will leave it there as we won't agree on that. 

24 minutes ago, smiller14 said:

What games have we played well in then? I'd say Watford, Swansea (ably assisted by an awful home team) and Blackpool. QPR and West Brom we weren't awful but we certainly rode our luck in the latter and created nothing in the former - 0-0 would have been a fair result.

I would say we were excellent against Blackpool and Watford. We made Swansea a poor team. QPR was more than decent enough performance and West Brom I don't think we rode our luck at all. 

24 minutes ago, smiller14 said:

The other 7 have been largely abysmal. We scraped past a very poor Millwall team, got absolutely pasted at Cardiff, Sheff Utd, Luton and Reading, could have been out of sight at half time vs Bristol City and Stoke. We've shown signs but I think we've been very poor more often than we've been good. You will obviously disagree.

I don't think we weren't abysmal against Millwall. Its was standard Championship game first half with each team not wanting to give much away. I thought we had a decent second half against Bristol City. Sheff Utd, Luton and Reading were bad performances but like JDT has said we will have bad results and performances along the way in the project

[roversfan99]

50 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Firstly, no one is getting arrogant! 

We played well in more than 3 games for me. Yes we had some poor performances like Sheffield United or Luton games, but I would say Both Fulham games, Reading away and Forest game was much worst performances or even the Derby (first half) and Stoke home games were much worse than this season performances. 

Blackpool game was only, ok? I'm shocked by that response. Watford game we were very good. 

I have answered your questions posed to me. 

Venkys or anyone at Rovers isn't sacking JDT when we are 6th in the league after 12 games. 

I never said that we should sack Tomasson. My point was more a general one about Venkys having history for letting managers stay in situ regardless of results, so Tomasson will be here next season either way.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, smiller14 said:

My main concern is that our downturn in form seems to be accelerating as the system JDT wants to play is bedding in more. This indicates a real struggle to adjust to it. We need to adjust very quickly, as it's an unforgiving league and any long-term strategy/'project' goes out of the window if we become embroiled at the wrong end of the table. 

Maybe the players just don’t want to play the system.

[roverblue]

I think a big decision he needs to make is whether to play 2 or 3 at the back. personally I think we look at our most comfortable with 3 centre backs but he seems to keep swapping it about which I dont think helps any of the players getting familiar with a system.

Too much tinkering so far, just play your best team and if players get tired after an hour sub them off rather than bringing them on as he does at the moment.

[Waggy76]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I never said that we should sack Tomasson. My point was more a general one about Venkys having history for letting managers stay in situ regardless of results, so Tomasson will be here next season either way.

That's a very worrying scenario....

[Nuttall is lost]

Tomasson is probably an idealistic coach and those tactics are easier to implement in continental leagues where as English football is more intense and you are not given the time on the ball you would in the likes of Sweden. Its more hussle and bustle.  The Championship is not a technical league if you ask me.  Its a league where everyone beats everyone and only the most functional teams get promoted and even then those teams are not good.  Its a dogfight and you need good characters in your team more so than technical players imo.  I think we need a couple of lads over 30 who have been there and done it.  Gordon Cowans type players who have been let go by other teams.  You're not going to get out of this division with kids. 

[rog of the rovers]

Currently on pace for 23 wins and 23 losses, which would give us 69 points (that is the same number of point as last season).

Of course we're not going to win 23 or lose 23, but just for measure.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I never said that we should sack Tomasson. My point was more a general one about Venkys having history for letting managers stay in situ regardless of results, so Tomasson will be here next season either way.

Some people on here want him sack after last night game. 

Venkys do get rid of managers as they have shown. 

JDT will still be here next season cos he is deserved to be so. 

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Maybe the players just don’t want to play the system.

Or maybe the players want to play the system but need more time on the training field to learn and develop the style more! 

We played 4-2-3-1 formation more and players are involved with the tactics as JDT and GB have both said

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Some people on here want him sack after last night game. 

Venkys do get rid of managers as they have shown. 

JDT will still be here next season cos he is deserved to be so. 

Or maybe the players want to play the system but need more time on the training field to learn and develop the style more! 

We played 4-2-3-1 formation more and players are involved with the tactics as JDT and GB have both said

There’s more to it than a “ style “ . Individual players need to be much better on the ball, better touch, more two footed, have a trick or two, able to get their head up etc. if you can’t do that at 22 or 23 and you’ve been at a pro club since you were 8 the next two months aren’t going to change that much. Different positions demand different skills sets. If Ayala was a brilliant ball player he’d be in the Premier League.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Mattyblue]

They’ve sacked two managers since 2013. Pretty much unheard of in the modern game at any other long standing Championship club.

[K-Hod]

33 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Some people on here want him sack after last night game. 

Venkys do get rid of managers as they have shown. 

JDT will still be here next season cos he is deserved to be so. 

Or maybe the players want to play the system but need more time on the training field to learn and develop the style more! 

We played 4-2-3-1 formation more and players are involved with the tactics as JDT and GB have both said

No they don’t. In fact nobody has called for his head. People have expressed worry and concern about the manager and said last night’s performance was shite.

Which it was….

[roversfan99]

46 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Some people on here want him sack after last night game. 

Venkys do get rid of managers as they have shown. 

JDT will still be here next season cos he is deserved to be so. 

Or maybe the players want to play the system but need more time on the training field to learn and develop the style more! 

We played 4-2-3-1 formation more and players are involved with the tactics as JDT and GB have both said

How do you know that he deserves to be here next season?

[Leonard Venkhater]

22 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

No they don’t. In fact nobody has called for his head. People have expressed worry and concern about the manager and said last night’s performance was shite.

Which it was….

Well, I am very worried.

Six games where we have not only lost, but where we just haven't turned up. Last night, the ref was at fault, but we could have conceded 5 or 6 by that time. I couldn't see what JDT was trying to do.

No Spanish, Italian, Dutch or Danish charm can wash over the crap that we have had to endure in this ..er..project.

[simongarnerisgod]

i honestly have never seen a  a rovers side line up and play in such a way,there was no plan,urgency or attacking instinct add to that no leadership either,very worrying imo,thankfully if it does go completely t**s up jdt is`nt  likely to hang around like mowbray,if we don`t get a win against rotherham the crowd will turn imo,personally i did`nt expect a play off spot this season but i did`nt expect to watch nothing football like we produced last night

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Well, I am very worried.

Six games where we have not only lost, but where we just haven't turned up. Last night, the ref was at fault, but we could have conceded 5 or 6 by that time. I couldn't see what JDT was trying to do.

No Spanish, Italian, Dutch or Danish charm can wash over the crap that we have had to endure in this ..er..project.

Oh yeah, me too! What is a bit of a concern is that last night isn’t the first time under JDT….

[Hasta]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

JDT is still the man to get this club back to PL. He is trying to bring in his style and what he wants slowly

The problem is he’s not doing it slowly. From about 4 games in it became clear he is insisting that the players we have play this slow build passing game from the back. It doesn’t suit the players and it shows in the performances.

In fact I first noticed us doing it at Celtic. 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Hasta

[rigger]

At least JDT admitted in his post match interview, that last nights performance was not good enough.

Edited October 5, 2022 by rigger

[bazza]

27 minutes ago, rigger said:

At least JDT admitted in his post match interview, that last nights performance was not good enough.

Who thinks he will do anything about it? I don't. I think he is a stubborn sort of person who won't change the way we play.

I really hope I'm wrong about that and I am forced to (happily) eat my words.

[rigger]

1 minute ago, bazza said:

Who thinks he will do anything about it? I don't. I think he is a stubborn sort of person who won't change the way we play.

I really hope I'm wrong about that and I am forced to (happily) eat my words.

Would you like salt and vinegar with those words.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

At least JDT admitted in his post match interview, that last nights performance was not good enough.

That's true and a refreshing change.

[Blue blood]

I'm still backing JDT and here are my reasons why:

 

1) What he inherited.

Where to start? A team on a half season relegation form run, a team with 5 years of TM's culture of apathy behind it. A squad shorn of some key players from last season including the player of the year and captain, with a raft of other squad losses too. A squad of limited experience. It was a pretty rubbish situation JDT inherited. The signings of the previous transfer window to his arrival were gash and have added very little. And I don't think it was his pre season plans and he arrived late. Hardly ideal circumstances, especially the neglect of the squad coming home to roost. 

 

2) It takes time

I recall Hughes first half season being pretty woeful. Likewise Souness in his end of season before his first full season. Even TMs successful league 1 campaign took a while to get going. Admittedly not like for like as the first 2 examples didn't have a transfer window but unsure if either had quite as hard a situation as the one inherited. Either way I think the time principle still holds true in part.

 

3) JDT has to learn what doesn't work 

Same as Hughes had to learn Emerton wasn't a left winger and Amoruso wasn't a centre back for himself (although we all knew it) JDT has to have given everyone a clean slate and learn for himself what works and doesn't work. Hopefully he's a quick learner but in fairness the clean slate principle does mean that things we know from seeing us the last few seasons, will take a bit of time for JDT to uncover. We have to remember JDT hasn't seen said issues and errors over the long period of time we have. That said the penny should be beginning to drop and some trials have by now had a fair crack of the whip. (Imo some things need more than a game to assess whether they can work or not, one game can be misleading.) 

 

4) Our position

Despite all the worries and the poor form we still have a solid amount of points and are top 10. That's not a bad position to be in when things aren't quite working and a decent base to start from. We are picking up some wins and we aren't in danger of relegation so it's not a bad base to be building from before it clicks. If we were struggling for points the situation would be more worrying and pressing. 

 

5)He's not TM

Entirely subjective and not a good rational reason but not being that odious, lying self-serving former manager is a big plus that endears him to me. Makes me more willing to give him a bit of time. 

 

I should add there are some concerns. The main 2 for me is when we lose we seem to get hammered which suggests a fragility to the team which perhaps goes beyond the lost games. Whether it's an inability to sort things out or adjust or mental fragility it could be quite worrying. Hopefully it is "just" part of the learning process and goes away but I can see how it can be interpreted (and may be) a worrying trend. Hopefully another window for a few more options and a bit longer working with the squad and this will go away. Appreciate there aren't any guarantees on that mind!

Second big concern is around our transfers. The lad from Peterborough sounded exactly what we wanted and yet hasn't worked out, which is disappointing. If those signings don't come off, then you do wonder what will. Again, hopefully, as JDT imprints his style and gets his squad his form will improve. The one that really worried me is Hirst as he didn't sound like a striker good enough to lead the line, nor is he appearing like it. If he is the type we are aiming at we have some issues. Hopefully (again) with time we can use JDTs Scandinavian contacts and get better quality and this was a B list player. 

 

I'm hoping the concerns are ironed out and whilst there's no certainty I this will happen, I do think that the reasons outlined means that JDT should be given time to address them and why it's not all doom and gloom. 

[rigger]

15 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I'm still backing JDT and here are my reasons why:

 

1) What he inherited.

Where to start? A team on a half season relegation form run, a team with 5 years of TM's culture of apathy behind it. A squad shorn of some key players from last season including the player of the year and captain, with a raft of other squad losses too. A squad of limited experience. It was a pretty rubbish situation JDT inherited. The signings of the previous transfer window to his arrival were gash and have added very little. And I don't think it was his pre season plans and he arrived late. Hardly ideal circumstances, especially the neglect of the squad coming home to roost. 

 

2) It takes time

I recall Hughes first half season being pretty woeful. Likewise Souness in his end of season before his first full season. Even TMs successful league 1 campaign took a while to get going. Admittedly not like for like as the first 2 examples didn't have a transfer window but unsure if either had quite as hard a situation as the one inherited. Either way I think the time principle still holds true in part.

 

3) JDT has to learn what doesn't work 

Same as Hughes had to learn Emerton wasn't a left winger and Amoruso wasn't a centre back for himself (although we all knew it) JDT has to have given everyone a clean slate and learn for himself what works and doesn't work. Hopefully he's a quick learner but in fairness the clean slate principle does mean that things we know from seeing us the last few seasons, will take a bit of time for JDT to uncover. We have to remember JDT hasn't seen said issues and errors over the long period of time we have. That said the penny should be beginning to drop and some trials have by now had a fair crack of the whip. (Imo some things need more than a game to assess whether they can work or not, one game can be misleading.) 

 

4) Our position

Despite all the worries and the poor form we still have a solid amount of points and are top 10. That's not a bad position to be in when things aren't quite working and a decent base to start from. We are picking up some wins and we aren't in danger of relegation so it's not a bad base to be building from before it clicks. If we were struggling for points the situation would be more worrying and pressing. 

 

5)He's not TM

Entirely subjective and not a good rational reason but not being that odious, lying self-serving former manager is a big plus that endears him to me. Makes me more willing to give him a bit of time. 

 

I should add there are some concerns. The main 2 for me is when we lose we seem to get hammered which suggests a fragility to the team which perhaps goes beyond the lost games. Whether it's an inability to sort things out or adjust or mental fragility it could be quite worrying. Hopefully it is "just" part of the learning process and goes away but I can see how it can be interpreted (and may be) a worrying trend. Hopefully another window for a few more options and a bit longer working with the squad and this will go away. Appreciate there aren't any guarantees on that mind!

Second big concern is around our transfers. The lad from Peterborough sounded exactly what we wanted and yet hasn't worked out, which is disappointing. If those signings don't come off, then you do wonder what will. Again, hopefully, as JDT imprints his style and gets his squad his form will improve. The one that really worried me is Hirst as he didn't sound like a striker good enough to lead the line, nor is he appearing like it. If he is the type we are aiming at we have some issues. Hopefully (again) with time we can use JDTs Scandinavian contacts and get better quality and this was a B list player. 

 

I'm hoping the concerns are ironed out and whilst there's no certainty I this will happen, I do think that the reasons outlined means that JDT should be given time to address them and why it's not all doom and gloom. 

I'm backing JDT because he is our manager.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

They’ve sacked two managers since 2013. Pretty much unheard of in the modern game at any other long standing Championship club.

Rovers give time and patience to managers/head coaches. 

5 hours ago, K-Hod said:

No they don’t. In fact nobody has called for his head. People have expressed worry and concern about the manager and said last night’s performance was shite.

Which it was….

wrong there, is a post asking for him to go. https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/36353-v-cardiff-city-a-04102022/?do=findComment&comment=2380279

worry and concern about our head coach who has us 7th in the league tonight? I thought we would be mid table at best, at this stage of the season, given the new footballing structure and the number of changes to the backroom staff and playing staff

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

How do you know that he deserves to be here next season?

Based on my opinion and how I think the rest of the season will go for 

3 hours ago, Hasta said:

The problem is he’s not doing it slowly. From about 4 games in it became clear he is insisting that the players we have play this slow build passing game from the back. It doesn’t suit the players and it shows in the performances.

In fact I first noticed us doing it at Celtic. 

I think he always wanted since he first came in. I think he wants 3 or 4 weeks on constantly working on it. The World cup break gives us this

Edited October 5, 2022 by chaddyrovers