Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, booth said:

The team that finished 8th wasn't quite the team JDT inherited was it? But even so Brereton had the best season probably of his career last season as he hasn't been as good this season. "Massively improved" is an overexaggeration, but even if he did have a decent season I'm not sure the difference that makes anyway. Mowbray didn't have anything to do with Brereton playing well, he struck it lucky with Chile call up and the confidence boost that brought. And he's more Brereton than Diaz this season.

And if Brereton hadn't been scoring last season, the first half would have been the same as the second half. We wouldn't have finished 8th for sure. 8th massively flattered us last season, and 8th would massively flatter us this season all things considered.

It's an unbalanced squad with some inconsistent or very poor players (some that poor they can't even get on the bench despite injuries), without a decent striker and an over-reliance on academy players. The fact people are now calling for a 19 year old lad, without a minute of professional football to his name, to come in and score goals is saying something.

It didn't flatter us, you don't get flattered based on your league position across a whole season.

This idea that a couple of weeks training with Chile and a manager he couldn't speak the same language as is absolutely crazy. Obviously he took confidence from that but he had become much better the season prior. He continued with that progression and last season Mowbray found a tactic that suited him. Even this season when the system perhaps hasn't suited him as much he has been our main goal threat.

[Waggy76]

12 minutes ago, booth said:

The team that finished 8th wasn't quite the team JDT inherited was it? But even so Brereton had the best season probably of his career last season as he hasn't been as good this season. "Massively improved" is an overexaggeration, but even if he did have a decent season I'm not sure the difference that makes anyway. Mowbray didn't have anything to do with Brereton playing well, he struck it lucky with Chile call up and the confidence boost that brought. And he's more Brereton than Diaz this season.

And if Brereton hadn't been scoring last season, the first half would have been the same as the second half. We wouldn't have finished 8th for sure. 8th massively flattered us last season, and 8th would massively flatter us this season all things considered.

It's an unbalanced squad with some inconsistent or very poor players (some that poor they can't even get on the bench despite injuries), without a decent striker and an over-reliance on academy players. The fact people are now calling for a 19 year old lad, without a minute of professional football to his name, to come in and score goals is saying something.

 

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Wouldn't say the squad was a mess but it needed urgent work.

We wouldn't be where we are if it was a mess, Tone and the gang had left a foundation but they'd lost interest in anything other than water treading years ago.

Another key thing for me is we never replaced Khadra who was inconsistent himself but always a thorne in the side of the opposition in the final 3rd.  Meant we could stretch teams a bit even if it came to nothing too often.

Took an age to get someone like Thomas in but now we aren't using him or getting out of him enough.  

It is the same now treading water , the managers are under no pressure to succeed..JDT's line up yesterday was at best negative , at worst it was I don't give a f**k !

[booth]

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It didn't flatter us, you don't get flattered based on your league position across a whole season.

This idea that a couple of weeks training with Chile and a manager he couldn't speak the same language as is absolutely crazy. Obviously he took confidence from that but he had become much better the season prior. He continued with that progression and last season Mowbray found a tactic that suited him. Even this season when the system perhaps hasn't suited him as much he has been our main goal threat.

What is absolutely crazy is thinking we have some sort of right to do better than 8th without a striker in the squad and all the upheaval we've had 🤣🤣🤣

And thinking Mowbray had any sort of gameplan with Brereton 🤣🤣🤣

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, booth said:

What is absolutely crazy is thinking we have some sort of right to do better than 8th without a striker in the squad and all the upheaval we've had 🤣🤣🤣

And thinking Mowbray had any sort of gameplan with Brereton 🤣🤣🤣

I don't think we have any right to finish higher than 8th. I just don't think the situation was as much of a mess as you are making out. He had 2/3 of a side that finished 8th and we paid money to replace the out of contract players. I do recognise the limitations in general, the owners have never reinvested the Armstrong money partly to compensate for how poorly the club is run and Broughton (and the owners) failed to get him an experienced midfielder and striker that he needed.

I also don't think that the way we set up last season was necessarily designed to get the best out of Brereton. But as a counter attacking side that played a front 2 with Brereton playing in between that left side that he likes but still central enough to regularly score goals, it suited him down to the ground. The 4231 this season has often had him as a second left back.

I feel like you are unable to look past seemingly a hatred of Mowbray, as if Brereton's goals were a mixture of total luck and some sort of divine intervention spending a few weeks with the Chile squad. He was a decent manager who had taken us as far as we could go and was replaced by Tomasson who I see as an upgrade.

[booth]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think we have any right to finish higher than 8th. I just don't think the situation was as much of a mess as you are making out. He had 2/3 of a side that finished 8th and we paid money to replace the out of contract players. I do recognise the limitations in general, the owners have never reinvested the Armstrong money partly to compensate for how poorly the club is run and Broughton (and the owners) failed to get him an experienced midfielder and striker that he needed.

I also don't think that the way we set up last season was necessarily designed to get the best out of Brereton. But as a counter attacking side that played a front 2 with Brereton playing in between that left side that he likes but still central enough to regularly score goals, it suited him down to the ground. The 4231 this season has often had him as a second left back.

I feel like you are unable to look past seemingly a hatred of Mowbray, as if Brereton's goals were a mixture of total luck and some sort of divine intervention spending a few weeks with the Chile squad. He was a decent manager who had taken us as far as we could go and was replaced by Tomasson who I see as an upgrade.

I don't hate Mowbray (?), I just think he was coasting. If they'd given him a contract he'd still be doing the same. He struck lucky with Brereton coming good and no one will tell me any different. We're discussing a man who put Sam Gallagher at fullback and Bradley Johnson as a false 9. I'll never forget when we were on a decent mini run and a journo asked Mowbray what was being done that was different, considering such a turnaround in fortunes. Mowbray replied, we aren't doing anything different, your answer is as good as mine, I don't know. And I think that sums up his management style. Stick with something and pray it works more often than it doesn't.

Also you've said previously, this season we should improve on last season. And your reason seems to be that we have pretty much the same squad as last.

[booth]

2 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

 

It is the same now treading water , the managers are under no pressure to succeed..JDT's line up yesterday was at best negative , at worst it was I don't give a f**k !

They clearly aren't under pressure, but I don't get the same vibe from JDT as I did from Mowbray. JDT has more or less stated that he desperately wanted to kick on this season but wasn't backed.

But yes I agree we should be playing Wharton (and should have started Sorba), and I thought we were playing better with Dolan instead of Brereton, but even if we were we'd still have a very poor centre forward upfront along with all the other players who struggle to find the net regularly - and have done so for several seasons. We should have seen some fresh faces in January. We were not only desperate for a midfielder and striker, but along with that, having no competition gives little incentive for anyone to go the extra mile. And that's what we saw against Norwich.

Blame the manager all you want but match after match I'm seeing chances regularly missed by Gallagher. A decent striker would have knocked in a few of his recent opportunities.

[roversfan99]

15 minutes ago, booth said:

I don't hate Mowbray (?), I just think he was coasting. If they'd given him a contract he'd still be doing the same. He struck lucky with Brereton coming good and no one will tell me any different. We're discussing a man who put Sam Gallagher at fullback and Bradley Johnson as a false 9. I'll never forget when we were on a decent mini run and a journo asked Mowbray what was being done that was different, considering such a turnaround in fortunes. Mowbray replied, we aren't doing anything different, your answer is as good as mine, I don't know. And I think that sums up his management style. Stick with something and pray it works more often than it doesn't.

Also you've said previously, this season we should improve on last season. And your reason seems to be that we have pretty much the same squad as last.

The Johnson and Gallagher examples are often quoted but not to justify them, one was a bizarre 45 minute experiment and the other was for about 10 minutes mid game between tactical changes.

It is more that the aim should be to finish above last season. Obviously the squad isn't exactly the same but the key difference is the manager. And I would definitely prefer Tomasson in the dug out over Mowbray.

I think a big disparity in our opinions comes not from me rating our squad miles more than you do as I don't, it has limitations 100%. I think I have a much lesser opinion of the quality of the league as a whole. You look at Luton in third and it is a team cobbled together of journeymen. You look at Millwall and they are similar, Preston have had no investment for years and they are 2 points away, Coventry are up there with us even though we nabbed their best defender due to their problems.

I also think that as we stand in the play offs with us having 7 games to go and that is even allowing us to have lost our last 2, that it would be a huge frustration for us to fall away again. It would also heighten a potential mental block whereby even if we were up there again next season, we would expect to fall away.

[Ulrich]

Wonder if JDT could use his old Milan connections to persuade Zlatan to swan song with us next year? Being released by AC.

 

[booth]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The Johnson and Gallagher examples are often quoted but not to justify them, one was a bizarre 45 minute experiment and the other was for about 10 minutes mid game between tactical changes.

It is more that the aim should be to finish above last season. Obviously the squad isn't exactly the same but the key difference is the manager. And I would definitely prefer Tomasson in the dug out over Mowbray.

I think a big disparity in our opinions comes not from me rating our squad miles more than you do as I don't, it has limitations 100%. I think I have a much lesser opinion of the quality of the league as a whole. You look at Luton in third and it is a team cobbled together of journeymen. You look at Millwall and they are similar, Preston have had no investment for years and they are 2 points away, Coventry are up there with us even though we nabbed their best defender due to their problems.

I also think that as we stand in the play offs with us having 7 games to go and that is even allowing us to have lost our last 2, that it would be a huge frustration for us to fall away again. It would also heighten a potential mental block whereby even if we were up there again next season, we would expect to fall away.

Thanks to the club being so laid back/lazy about seemingly everything - including the way they treated Mowbray, I just had absolutely no expectations of this season. Mid table was my prediction because I didn't think we'd have the firepower to get us higher up the league. So it's been a surprise we are where we are and not a surprise when we get beat, even though it still ruins my day.

I've no doubt that many are expecting the play offs. If we get in the play offs they'll be then expecting promotion. When we don't achieve one or the other they'll all be livid just as they was when we didn't get to the next round of the cup. It's folly to expect anything of this bunch of players.

I don't expect any of it because I know we'll be pinning our hopes on the likes of Morton and Gallagher, combined with inconsistent misfits like Hedges and Dolan. And as for Brereton, is his heart really in it any more? I don't see it.

I'd like us to get into the play offs as it would indicate an improvement. I won't enjoy the JDT out posts all over social media from the same people who would defend Mowbray to the death.

[davulsukur]

24 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

Wonder if JDT could use his old Milan connections to persuade Zlatan to swan song with us next year? Being released by AC.

 

At least we've finally moved on from Ronaldinho....

[M_B]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think we have any right to finish higher than 8th. I just don't think the situation was as much of a mess as you are making out. He had 2/3 of a side that finished 8th and we paid money to replace the out of contract players. I do recognise the limitations in general, the owners have never reinvested the Armstrong money partly to compensate for how poorly the club is run and Broughton (and the owners) failed to get him an experienced midfielder and striker that he needed.

I also don't think that the way we set up last season was necessarily designed to get the best out of Brereton. But as a counter attacking side that played a front 2 with Brereton playing in between that left side that he likes but still central enough to regularly score goals, it suited him down to the ground. The 4231 this season has often had him as a second left back.

I feel like you are unable to look past seemingly a hatred of Mowbray, as if Brereton's goals were a mixture of total luck and some sort of divine intervention spending a few weeks with the Chile squad. He was a decent manager who had taken us as far as we could go and was replaced by Tomasson who I see as an upgrade.

Tomasson inherited a squad capable of a top six place, I don't see how it can be argued , we've been in there from day one thanks almost totally to the existing players. 

What it needed was the extensive new recruitment team to come up trumps to give the existing squad a leg up. 

It didn't. 

 

[wilsdenrover]

7 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

At least we've finally moved on from Ronaldinho....

and Luca Toni 

Edited April 8, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[47er]

7 hours ago, lraC said:

I must have missed Spurs away. What score was that one?

Part-timer!  😃

[martonrover]

9 hours ago, M_B said:

Tomasson inherited a squad capable of a top six place, I don't see how it can be argued , we've been in there from day one thanks almost totally to the existing players. 

What it needed was the extensive new recruitment team to come up trumps to give the existing squad a leg up. 

It didn't. 

 

We didn't finish in the top six last season, and the only time it really matters is at the business end of the season.

That's when we invariably fade away.

[chaddyrovers]

14 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

 

It is the same now treading water , the managers are under no pressure to succeed..JDT's line up yesterday was at best negative , at worst it was I don't give a f**k !

How was the line up against Norwich Negative? 

The line up wasn't the problem but the players playing a slow tempo and no movement. Players need to take responsible for their poor performance   

[Mattyblue]

No the manager takes responsibility. He picks them, he sets the gameplan, he is the one that needs to adapt said plans during the game.

I’m a big fan of JDT, but it was a piss poor performance and that’s ultimately on him - just like wins.

[booth]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

No the manager takes responsibility. He picks them, he sets the gameplan, he is the one that needs to adapt said plans during the game.

I’m a big fan of JDT, but it was a piss poor performance and that’s ultimately on him - just like wins.

Not entirely on him, he doesn't have a centre forward worth using.

[booth]

14 hours ago, M_B said:

Tomasson inherited a squad capable of a top six place, I don't see how it can be argued , we've been in there from day one thanks almost totally to the existing players. 

What it needed was the extensive new recruitment team to come up trumps to give the existing squad a leg up. 

It didn't. 

 

Because we've not seen that squad finish in a top 6 place yet, ever?

I think this is the problem with a lot of fans, you're expecting guaranteed play offs from a bunch of players who previously have let us down time after time. I know what's coming and I'll be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't.

[Mattyblue]

11 minutes ago, booth said:

Not entirely on him, he doesn't have a centre forward worth using.

No arguments there, but blaming it on the players and absolving the manager of any responsibility is stretching it. 

[Hasta]

21 minutes ago, booth said:

Not entirely on him, he doesn't have a centre forward worth using.

You’ve spent 48 hours saying the same line. We could play Brereton. We could play Leonard.  We don’t know if Brereton up top would actually try and carry more threat. We don’t know if Leonard might actually have enough movement to nick a goal. We do know that Gally is toothless, and carried no threat in both games, but we keep playing him regardless.
 

How he survived the whole 90 minutes of Norwich and Birmingham when he is occupying the main forward point I’ll never know. I mean even Dolan might not be ideal there, but at some point in the last two games when it’s not working you’d try him

As part of the wider picture I agree, GB’s January disaster has screwed us over a lot.  But the players can keep performing substandard and keep their place regardless, especially Gallagher and Morton. The manager is complacent in that.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Hasta

[Hasta]

I never expected a top 6 finish this season, and hopefully over the summer I’ll be able to assess it as a full season.
 

The frustration is that once you are in a position where we need just 4 wins from 9 games, with 5 of those at home and 2 of the away games being teams in the bottom third, you kind of think we would have enough to get over the line.

[Mattyblue]

I’m not giving up, under TM I probably would’ve done, but JDT does have a knack of picking up a result when it looks like we are about to enter a death cycle.

 

[DeeCee]

12 hours ago, Hasta said:

You’ve spent 48 hours saying the same line. We could play Brereton. We could play Leonard.  We don’t know if Brereton up top would actually try and carry more threat. We don’t know if Leonard might actually have enough movement to nick a goal. We do know that Gally is toothless, and carried no threat in both games, but we keep playing him regardless.
 

How he survived the whole 90 minutes of Norwich and Birmingham when he is occupying the main forward point I’ll never know. I mean even Dolan might not be ideal there, but at some point in the last two games when it’s not working you’d try him

As part of the wider picture I agree, GB’s January disaster has screwed us over a lot.  But the players can keep performing substandard and keep their place regardless, especially Gallagher and Morton. The manager is complacent in that.

Complicit but probably complacent as well 😁

[lraC]

15 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m not giving up, under TM I probably would’ve done, but JDT does have a knack of picking up a result when it looks like we are about to enter a death cycle.

 

He needs one today, like never before. I have a horrible dread about it though. 

[Sparks Rover]

Watching JDTs pre match interview, he sublimily gives the players a get out card due to age and inexperience.....can't get back in games, leadership not there.

I feel he needs to show more intensity and focus as a manager so it filters into the players....