Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[cesus]

6 hours ago, Ghost7 said:

I think we as fans have shown Venky's it's fine to turn the tap off and starve a good manager of reasonable resource.

The message is if you do the bare minimum we are happy, happy and grateful to still be able to watch Rovers.

The reality is a good manager won't be. I know how this ends and hopefully the rest of the fanbase does too... underachievement, wasted academy products and the manager moving on.

All we are left with is a CEO who's happy to cover it up, mid-table mediocrity, the occasional relegation and a new bus.

Without a real explanation from India through the club that they own, I think I'm done for a while.

If I was looking to blame anybody I'd say fans would be pretty damn low on my list actually. We've now got the delight to put up with alongside having shite owners, the 3 people running the day to day (Sw, GB, JDT) seem to be as able as 3 under 6 years olds agreeing on what to do. Oh the joys of supporting Rovers!

[Waggy76]

20 minutes ago, NeilInBristol said:

What else can we do? As fans we are fairly powerless. They've lost a huge fanbase since they took over but hasn't impacted them.

We can only get behind the team and support JDT and try and enjoy his style of football 

Wigan at home , out last game in the Premiership ever ! 

To many fans accepted the goings on , without a whimper!

The Venkys , dismantled the all framework of the club within 2 years .

I my opinion, relegation was deliberately achieved.. 

It is still going on to this day !

Give me administration today and let us have rid of these fiends !!

 

[Upside Down]

12 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Wigan at home , out last game in the Premiership ever ! 

To many fans accepted the goings on , without a whimper!

The Venkys , dismantled the all framework of the club within 2 years .

I my opinion, relegation was deliberately achieved.. 

It is still going on to this day !

Give me administration today and let us have rid of these fiends !!

 

If the price to be rid of venkys was administration and 5-10 years in league one I'd gladly take it.

The club as it is, is an embarrassment.

[arbitro]

Tomasson's ambitions clearly outweigh those of the owners or their acolytes at Ewood. That, for me is only going to end one way. These people have blighted our club for the last thirteen years and whilst they are here we will tread water at the very best. They have very little interest in the club  and its well being but they seem to be happy just to meander along whilst putting in a Kings ransom just to allow us to do so.

Why?

[Mattyblue]

The open contempt he shows to the ‘leadership’ of the club would see him sacked elsewhere, luckily this lot don’t give a flying feck, so at least JDT can make merry in his pressers with no consequences, probably only fun he has left in the job.

It was the same with TM in the lockdown season, he was pretty much begging for and looking resigned to the sack… of course this club doesn’t work like that, we weren’t going to get relegated, you have a contract, so just crack on will you.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Upside Down]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Tomasson's ambitions clearly outweigh those of the owners or their acolytes at Ewood. That, for me is only going to end one way. These people have blighted our club for the last thirteen years and whilst they are here we will tread water at the very best. They have very little interest in the club  and its well being but they seem to be happy just to meander along whilst putting in a Kings ransom just to allow us to do so.

Why?

You say they've little interest but they keep meddling in transfers and the like.

The latest being, if reports are to be believed, blocking the signing of Danny Baath. We really could use his experience in the squad.

I'm yet to see anything that would convince me that they want anything other than to plod along in this division losing 10-15 million off the books every year.

Slashing the budget half way through the transfer window and blocking us from making signings can only point to one thing.

I'll be amazed if JDT lasts the full season. I'm amazed he's still here now.

[tomphil]

Again why isn't the shadow man being called out ?

Who is blocking these signings ?  He's surely the guy who advises the ownership from this side and are these signing requests even getting that far ?

[NeilInBristol]

26 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

You say they've little interest but they keep meddling in transfers and the like.

The latest being, if reports are to be believed, blocking the signing of Danny Baath. We really could use his experience in the squad.

I'm yet to see anything that would convince me that they want anything other than to plod along in this division losing 10-15 million off the books every year.

Slashing the budget half way through the transfer window and blocking us from making signings can only point to one thing.

I'll be amazed if JDT lasts the full season. I'm amazed he's still here now.

He's still here now as he probably won't get compensation if he leaves. He is doing all the right things tho as pointed out above. He is making a noise and being honest. I would rather he stayed too but it's looking unlikely unless they do what they did with TM and just make him run his contract 

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, NeilInBristol said:

He's still here now as he probably won't get compensation if he leaves. He is doing all the right things tho as pointed out above. He is making a noise and being honest. I would rather he stayed too but it's looking unlikely unless they do what they did with TM and just make him run his contract 

I can see Southampton coming in for him. They'll surely bin off that tosser they've got now as he's absolutely shite. Another pumping and he'll be booted. Then they'll see what JDT is doing here and what he's had to work with any they'll make the move.

JDT's position here is untenable. He's been lied to and let down too many times and he's only been here a year.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I can see Southampton coming in for him. They'll surely bin off that tosser they've got now as he's absolutely shite. Another pumping and he'll be booted. Then they'll see what JDT is doing here and what he's had to work with any they'll make the move.

JDT's position here is untenable. He's been lied to and let down too many times and he's only been here a year.

If Southampton are still struggling in a month that could be a real possibility.

[Upside Down]

30 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If Southampton are still struggling in a month that could be a real possibility.

He could well be the first to go. I can't believe they went for him in the first place. 

[joey_big_nose]

JDT seems a good egg, also one not keen to walk away from millions of pounds of compensation, so I cant see him quitting, but its clear as soon as someone comes in he's gone. And cant blame him at all.

A couple of points 

1- when the approach is made Venkys have to accept it right? That itself given Venkys behaviours could be interesting. Are they going to slap a massive compensation fee on him and refuse to allow him to go till met? That will be interesting 

2- Presumably Gregg's already well aware the way the wind is blowing and has a short list of candidates to replace JDT 

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Again why isn't the shadow man being called out ?

Who is blocking these signings ?  He's surely the guy who advises the ownership from this side and are these signing requests even getting that far ?

Agreed. Waggott is merely a hired goon who acts as a lightning conductor. 
Suhail is as near to Venkys as we get in this country,

He has a cloak of invisibility.

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, martonrover said:

Agreed. Waggott is merely a hired goon who acts as a lightning conductor. 
Suhail is as near to Venkys as we get in this country,

He has a cloak of invisibility.

It's just odd that no one ever digs him out or ever has, not media, fans forum or those on here who have a line into the club.

Surely he is the man who should front up and answer questions on behalf of the owners and just exactly what his own role is.

It's bizarre he seems to get a free pass.

[toogs]

3 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

I my opinion, relegation was deliberately achieved.. 

and that away game at spurs where we needed a win to realistically stay in the prem and we achieved no shots on or off target in the entire game. As smelly as it gets imo. 

[Mattyblue]

I would say it’s because 99% of the fanbase (i.e pretty much everyone that aren’t saddos like us on niche forums), won’t have heard of Shadowman - which is obviously exactly how they want it.

[Oldgregg86]

Conspiracy theory of the day

the “ new coach” we “ purchased”  turned out to be hired from a company. 
The “ new coach” is Infact a dig at JDT through the media served as a warning about his little outbursts of dissatisfaction hence the reason JDT keeps bringing it up. You cant get the players I need but can get a “new coach”🤔  

Is the new coach all smoke and mirrors 😂

Edited September 3, 2023 by Oldgregg86

[Gav]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

Tomasson's ambitions clearly outweigh those of the owners or their acolytes at Ewood. That, for me is only going to end one way. These people have blighted our club for the last thirteen years and whilst they are here we will tread water at the very best. They have very little interest in the club  and its well being but they seem to be happy just to meander along whilst putting in a Kings ransom just to allow us to do so.

Why?

Venkys came into the club talking about running a well established Premiership team on £5m a year and getting the wages under control to achieve that. Over the past 13yrs they've failed on almost every promise made, but wait, have they finally managed one.......?

Our wages are now rumoured to be in the bottom half of the Championship, we now pay poorly as a club, have Venkys finally achieved one goal they set out to do?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Gav

[martonrover]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I would say it’s because 99% of the fanbase (i.e pretty much everyone that aren’t saddos like us on niche forums), won’t have heard of Shadowman - which is obviously exactly how they want it.

I’m not sure that so many fans won’t have heard of Suhail, but the fact he isn’t a club employee and has no official presence helps keep him below the radar.

He truly is the invisible man.

[Mattyblue]

You reckon? I’d be most surprised if anyone around me at Ewood could name a single ‘Exec’ down there apart from Swag or GB.

[joey_big_nose]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

Venkys came into the club talking about running a well established Premiership team on £5m a year and getting the wages under control to achieve that. Over the past 13yrs they've failed on almost every promise made, but wait, have they finally managed one.......?

Our wages are now rumoured to be in the bottom half of the Championship, we now pay poorly as a club, have Venkys finally achieved one goal they set out to do?

The one silver lining in the reduction of the operating costs is that it does in the long run make it feasible for a reasonable business person to consider buying the club. 

Im not really sure though how much further we need to go to get to break even point on income versus costs? Do any of our financial experts have insight?

Also I guess what would be interesting is where we comparatively we are on the league table in terms of income ignoring player trading and parachute payments? I would guess around 15th? But not sure? Does anyone have a view?

[martonrover]

5 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You reckon? I’d be most surprised if anyone around me at Ewood could name a single ‘Exec’ down there apart from Swag or GB.

Whilst many people couldn’t name him, I think a lot of people are aware that Venkys have a rep over here.

I think it’s Suhail’s power that is underestimated, hence Waggott acting as lightning conductor.

Even on here he rarely gets a mention.

[JHRover]

I think that ever since the shadow man started to take a more active role in the running of the club there has been a precarious balance of power at the club. A balance of power that at present is in the shadow man's favour and has been for the last few years.

Cast our minds back to Gary Bowyer's tenure. Up until the summer of 2015 things had been pretty hunky dory with him. He'd done pretty well, rebuilt the squad, had some reasonable backing in doing that, settled things down and had developed some serious assets. Whilst he failed to get us into the top six we weren't far away.

Summer of 2015 things start to change. Bowyer doesn't get his annual India trip, doesn't get any money to spend, has to resort to dross like Delfouneso and Koita on free transfers and  meanwhile they sell off Cairney and Gestede. It was quite clear then the direction things were going - no cash, free transfers, more outgoings than incomings.

It was right around this time that the shadow man first became actively involved on the ground at Ewood. Once Bowyer's line to India was severed that summer the path was clear for his removal. The Lambert stunt was Shadow man in action. The biggest compliment I can give him is that he appears to understand the need to have some experience and track record behind the scenes on the football side.

Once Bowyer was out of the way it was structured so that Lambert and then Coyle did not have direct access to India. They had to go through shadow man. Unsurprisingly neither of those managers received any serious financial backing, neither of them lasted long, both had to oversee large player sales and disappearing profits (Rhodes, Duffy, Hanley).

Then Mowbray comes along and in his first summer after relegation he goes out to India, coming back with a new contract, new job title and some serious financial backing. I suspect after the calamity of that season and costly relegation the shadow man was held at least partly responsible cut out for a while. Mowbray being allowed to keep all his players after relegation to League One, being allowed to sign big hitters like Dack and Armstrong.

Personally I think at this point the balance of power shifted away from the shadow man and back to the dugout. We had a return to the Kean and Bowyer days with the manager liked by those in India, with a direct line to India and with authority to spend directly from India. Shadow man was pushed to one side.

This continued fairly steadily for a few years with Mowbray allowed to assemble a big, at times bloated, and expensive squad, allowed to spend millions on the likes of Armstrong, Gallagher, Brereton. Allowed to hand out big contracts to his mates as 'reward' for promotion.

Occasional inconsistencies such as the odd signings of Sam Hart and Jacob Davenport suggested that there was someone else with an input into transfers.

Then after a few years, be that due to covid, or due to those in India getting fed up at the lack of return, the balance of power shifts again. Mowbray can't have his India visits, his transfer funds dry up. Contracts are neglected. Armstrong is sold. Mowbray doesn't get the cash. He's reliant on loans. Mowbray becomes visibly fed up with things and is practically begging to be sacked.

So now shadow man is back in control. Mowbray is out of the way and he needs a new structure in place. One that will keep things ticking over on the 'strategy' he wants / is instructed to oversee which is little to no cash, a small portion of funds generated reinvested, reduction to the wage bill and age of the squad. No ambition.

This is where Broughton and JDT come in. They are supposed to do the job without a direct line to India, needing to go through the shadow man for everything just as slippery Steve does upstairs.

I found it very interesting that Broughton announced at the start of the summer that he and JDT wanted or planned to go to India to meet the owners. I was very hopeful about this, and when it didn't happen my expectations for the summer fell through the floor.

I have no doubt they wanted to go to India, realising that their chances of any sort of reasonable budget this summer depended on it, realising that this is the way to get backing at this club. For some reason that trip didn't happen. Maybe India wouldn't agree to it, or maybe someone intervened to prevent it, knowing that he would be sidelined if it happened.

I do find it funny that the repugnant EFL make such a song and dance about communication and transparency, make rules that clubs have to have bi-annual supporter consultation meetings where owners or their reps are supposed to speak to fans groups, yet at Rovers no such meeting has occurred in over 4 years and the owners and their rep have never spoken.

Edited September 3, 2023 by JHRover

[Mattyblue]

Honestly still not sure, marton, yes they may have spotted some Indian names on the ‘board’ list, ‘Babu’ and the like… though then again we don’t even have a programme these days to spot such things.

They may know of a ‘rep’ too (though I would wager most don’t), but they certainly won’t have a clue that he’s more powerful than the CEO and is the real decision maker. The amount of ignorance the ‘normal’ matchday fan still has about how this club operates after 12 years is very noticeable. Which suits the owners down to the ground.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Mattyblue

[martonrover]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I found it very interesting that Broughton announced at the start of the summer that he and JDT wanted or planned to go to India to meet the owners. I was very hopeful about this, and when it didn't happen my expectations for the summer fell through the floor

Yes, that was ominous. Some people were dismissive of the importance of that trip being cancelled , but history tells us that it’s a key indicator of funds being given to the manager / head coach,

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

They may know of a ‘rep’ too (though I would wager most don’t), but they certainly won’t have a clue that he’s more powerful than the CEO and is the real decision maker. The amount of ignorance the ‘normal’ matchday fan still has about how this club operates after 12 years is very noticeable. Which suits the owners down to the ground

Yes, pretty much what I’m saying. It’s Suhail’s power that most supporters don’t realise.