Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[roverandout]

I want to keep jdt but results need to improve 

[glen9mullan]

Took quite a while to warm to JDT, I struggled first half of last season to understand the plan, and the football in the main was dire.

Fast forward 12 months, and the football is genuinely nice to watch from an attacking perspective, and I cannot deny certain players have really come on in leaps and bounds in terms of their general skill level.

I've always believed that a defence gains its confidence from having a top goalkeeper behind them. David Dunn said during the Friedel days, they knew he would dig them out of the shit more times than drop us in it, when he played.

Players need to be persuaded that their future is at Rovers and they can fulfil their aspirations at the club. I think with Kaminski it was more a case of the club trying to cash in to generate funds, more than him banging the door down for a transfer, We have a record of just deciding to sell players, Tom Cairney  comes to mind when we just sold him to bag a few quid.

SWAG and co's cost cutting leaves us with a second choice goalkeeper as number 1, and the back up we've brought in, the jury will be out until he gets a run of games. 

Defensively wise, Carter has made a number of mistakes which we've been punished for.

Central midfield looks a big issue the way we play, the gaps and space we leave for the opposition when play is turned over is shocking. I'm losing count the amount of times we give the ball away and the opposing players runs 30 yards with the ball at his feet., This needs to be addressed. 

As much as I'm a fan of Adam Wharton, he needs to work harder off the ball, as the defensive side of the job, is very much being carried by Travis. 

However most of the above is a symptom of spending nothing, depending on young lads who are trying to learn on the job. Many have raw talent, however the experience JDT Pleaded for, has not happened and the buck really does lie with the boardroom and the Owners. I genuinely think JDT Is getting 15% more than he should out of the personnel available, especially with the growing injury list too.

I believe he is the right man for the job, though I doubt if he still feels that Rovers are the right club for him. They let him down this summer, and its those who need to go before the manager, sadly I think it will be the other way around

[tomphil]

Despite giving him some stick which i feel is justified there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind if he had a budget - yes an actual budget because lets face it he hasn't got one at all - then even playing this style we'd be a bit better off points wise.

He does however now like last season after the Bumley and PNE poundings need to wise up hold his hand up and alter tack a bit before we play ourselves right into the mire.

[RoversClitheroe]

38 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Took quite a while to warm to JDT, I struggled first half of last season to understand the plan, and the football in the main was dire.

Fast forward 12 months, and the football is genuinely nice to watch from an attacking perspective, and I cannot deny certain players have really come on in leaps and bounds in terms of their general skill level.

I've always believed that a defence gains its confidence from having a top goalkeeper behind them. David Dunn said during the Friedel days, they knew he would dig them out of the shit more times than drop us in it, when he played.

Players need to be persuaded that their future is at Rovers and they can fulfil their aspirations at the club. I think with Kaminski it was more a case of the club trying to cash in to generate funds, more than him banging the door down for a transfer, We have a record of just deciding to sell players, Tom Cairney  comes to mind when we just sold him to bag a few quid.

SWAG and co's cost cutting leaves us with a second choice goalkeeper as number 1, and the back up we've brought in, the jury will be out until he gets a run of games. 

Defensively wise, Carter has made a number of mistakes which we've been punished for.

Central midfield looks a big issue the way we play, the gaps and space we leave for the opposition when play is turned over is shocking. I'm losing count the amount of times we give the ball away and the opposing players runs 30 yards with the ball at his feet., This needs to be addressed. 

As much as I'm a fan of Adam Wharton, he needs to work harder off the ball, as the defensive side of the job, is very much being carried by Travis. 

However most of the above is a symptom of spending nothing, depending on young lads who are trying to learn on the job. Many have raw talent, however the experience JDT Pleaded for, has not happened and the buck really does lie with the boardroom and the Owners. I genuinely think JDT Is getting 15% more than he should out of the personnel available, especially with the growing injury list too.

I believe he is the right man for the job, though I doubt if he still feels that Rovers are the right club for him. They let him down this summer, and its those who need to go before the manager, sadly I think it will be the other way around

Absolutely spot on Glen.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

For me all Rovers need is a finisher. Wr have created chance after chance that goes begging. A half decent forward would have bagged 15 goals this season such is the multitude of chances. 

All? Ignoring that we have conceded as many goals as anyone in the division.

48 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Took quite a while to warm to JDT, I struggled first half of last season to understand the plan, and the football in the main was dire.

Fast forward 12 months, and the football is genuinely nice to watch from an attacking perspective, and I cannot deny certain players have really come on in leaps and bounds in terms of their general skill level.

I've always believed that a defence gains its confidence from having a top goalkeeper behind them. David Dunn said during the Friedel days, they knew he would dig them out of the shit more times than drop us in it, when he played.

Players need to be persuaded that their future is at Rovers and they can fulfil their aspirations at the club. I think with Kaminski it was more a case of the club trying to cash in to generate funds, more than him banging the door down for a transfer, We have a record of just deciding to sell players, Tom Cairney  comes to mind when we just sold him to bag a few quid.

SWAG and co's cost cutting leaves us with a second choice goalkeeper as number 1, and the back up we've brought in, the jury will be out until he gets a run of games. 

Defensively wise, Carter has made a number of mistakes which we've been punished for.

Central midfield looks a big issue the way we play, the gaps and space we leave for the opposition when play is turned over is shocking. I'm losing count the amount of times we give the ball away and the opposing players runs 30 yards with the ball at his feet., This needs to be addressed. 

As much as I'm a fan of Adam Wharton, he needs to work harder off the ball, as the defensive side of the job, is very much being carried by Travis. 

However most of the above is a symptom of spending nothing, depending on young lads who are trying to learn on the job. Many have raw talent, however the experience JDT Pleaded for, has not happened and the buck really does lie with the boardroom and the Owners. I genuinely think JDT Is getting 15% more than he should out of the personnel available, especially with the growing injury list too.

I believe he is the right man for the job, though I doubt if he still feels that Rovers are the right club for him. They let him down this summer, and its those who need to go before the manager, sadly I think it will be the other way around

It isn't Waggott's cost cutting, he might be an incompetent idiot but it isnt him that initially gave a limited budget with no fees available before slashing it mid summer, that is solely down to the owners.

I don't think that at the moment Tomasson is getting 15% more than he should out of the current admittedly limited squad though, as per the league table.

[Torgeir]

40 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Despite giving him some stick which i feel is justified there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind if he had a budget - yes an actual budget because lets face it he hasn't got one at all - then even playing this style we'd be a bit better off points wise.

He does however now like last season after the Bumley and PNE poundings need to wise up hold his hand up and alter tack a bit before we play ourselves right into the mire.

Spot on.

We're committing players forward and creating chances, but we lack end product. The chances we gift our opposition are borderline criminal. Look for one point away and three at home on a general basis. 

[1864roverite]

RF99 my point being this.

 

if Rovers had converted 3 out of the 5 chances v Sunderland we would have coasted to victory. Ditto with Hull, Plymouth, Ipswich and the result may have been different if Rovers had done better with their clear chances against Leicester.

Regarding defensive issues, taking Pears out of the equation, Rovers rely too much on Carter alongside Hyam and should be rested putting Hill in for him. Carter has been exposed on too many occasions.

Midfield is another area, where we lose the ball and almost immediately the opposition are on us, we are too exposed through the middle. This is a result of the way we pile forward.

Something has to change and pretty quickly, this league is unforgiving.

 

 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, smiller14 said:

I am inclined to agree on this, but of the players we lost: Kaminski wasn't picked and he preferred Pears, he clearly wasn't sold on Dack, Phillips wasn't played and Ayala was always injured. Morton played more consistently and of course we do miss Brereton's goals. I'd say Moran and Sigurdsson are pretty good replacements, with full credit going to GB for acquiring them on such a limited budget. He has been completely let down by those idiots in Pune, but it isn't that dissimilar to what's happened in the past - Armstrong, Rothwell etc all left.

As for JDT winning the league there by October with £12m, I'm not too sure. He would do very well there, but Celtic hardly drop many points themselves. Ange might be gone now but I reckon an Ange-JDT tactical battle would be a fascinating one. Two quality styles of football.

 

Presume this is meant for here, I think the quality of the players that left can be underestimated based on them not being out of the team at the end of the season, recency bias.

Kaminski started 28 games, including up until the World Cup when we went in 3rd. He was excellent until his injury, kept us in games at times and we would have had far less points without him. Ayala started 23 games and came on twice more, 9 clean sheets included in there and a winning goal. Dack less so, 13 starts and 14 sub appearances but got us a win and a couple of draws when we were otherwise struggling to score. Then you have the wealth of experience they gave the group off the pitch no doubt.

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

RF99 my point being this.

 

if Rovers had converted 3 out of the 5 chances v Sunderland we would have coasted to victory. Ditto with Hull, Plymouth, Ipswich and the result may have been different if Rovers had done better with their clear chances against Leicester.

Regarding defensive issues, taking Pears out of the equation, Rovers rely too much on Carter alongside Hyam and should be rested putting Hill in for him. Carter has been exposed on too many occasions.

Midfield is another area, where we lose the ball and almost immediately the opposition are on us, we are too exposed through the middle. This is a result of the way we pile forward.

Something has to change and pretty quickly, this league is unforgiving.

 

 

Exactly, so the defenders are both exposed and subsequently making mistakes and the midfield is being overwhelmed. Change is needed. So we do need more than a goalscorer.

You shouldn't have to score 4 and 5 to win games, its unrealistic.

[RoversClitheroe]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It isn't Waggott's cost cutting, he might be an incompetent idiot but it isnt him that initially gave a limited budget with no fees available before slashing it mid summer, that is solely down to the owners.

But his lack of communication, complete disdain for the fans is on Waggot.

Don't commit to buying players and acting like everything is fine boasting about buying (leasing) a bus, knowing Venkys have cut the funding.

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

But his lack of communication, complete disdain for the fans is on Waggot.

Don't commit to buying players and acting like everything is fine boasting about buying (leasing) a bus, knowing Venkys have cut the funding.

The budgets have been slashed and signings blocked by the owners yet you are fixated about the bus?

Waggott did communicate, he did a half hour interview with BBC Lancashire, obviously like Broughton has he tried to paint a pretty picture, mentioning the bills being paid etc, but acknowledging the change of circumstances.

He is useless, his strategies around pricing etc are counter productive and there is no doubt he needs to go, but on this specific topic, you are shooting the messager.

[1864roverite]

They are not counter productive they are non existent!

[smiller14]

55 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Presume this is meant for here, I think the quality of the players that left can be underestimated based on them not being out of the team at the end of the season, recency bias.

Kaminski started 28 games, including up until the World Cup when we went in 3rd. He was excellent until his injury, kept us in games at times and we would have had far less points without him. Ayala started 23 games and came on twice more, 9 clean sheets included in there and a winning goal. Dack less so, 13 starts and 14 sub appearances but got us a win and a couple of draws when we were otherwise struggling to score. Then you have the wealth of experience they gave the group off the pitch no doubt.

Of course and I totally agree - there is definitely some recency bias. That being said, we probably played our best football at the end of the season without them (even if results indicated otherwise), which gave me hope they wouldn't be huge misses.

Kaminski was brilliant and far better than Pears, but JDT seemed to disagree - so don't think we can grumble too much from a transfer perspective at his exit and Pears being the main man - although a lot of people predicted the errors and points lost that have arisen. I think he is a huge miss, but if he stayed it is possible he'd still be behind Pears anyway. Likewise, JDT didn't have much faith in Dack and he was a bit part player, so don't think JDT was unhappy to lose him. Ayala was constantly injured and I still think we remain strong at centre half, albeit without much depth. 

Take your point entirely on the off the pitch impact - big characters gone there in the dressing room. I'd have happily kept all of them for different reasons. 

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, smiller14 said:

Of course and I totally agree - there is definitely some recency bias. That being said, we probably played our best football at the end of the season without them (even if results indicated otherwise), which gave me hope they wouldn't be huge misses.

Kaminski was brilliant and far better than Pears, but JDT seemed to disagree - so don't think we can grumble too much from a transfer perspective at his exit and Pears being the main man - although a lot of people predicted the errors and points lost that have arisen. I think he is a huge miss, but if he stayed it is possible he'd still be behind Pears anyway. Likewise, JDT didn't have much faith in Dack and he was a bit part player, so don't think JDT was unhappy to lose him. Ayala was constantly injured and I still think we remain strong at centre half, albeit without much depth. 

Take your point entirely on the off the pitch impact - big characters gone there in the dressing room. I'd have happily kept all of them for different reasons. 

But we clearly didnt play our best football, or moreso our most effective football, as this season has continued to demonstrate. The football is even "prettier" on the eye but its not effective.

Kaminski was first choice in pre season and there was an expectation that if he was here, he would have started. But either way, we are weaker without him. He played more than Pears last season. Even if Pears did then play every game this season, we are still weaker. Ayala started half the games last season to be fair and was not injured for all of the ones he didnt.

[smiller14]

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But we clearly didnt play our best football, or moreso our most effective football, as this season has continued to demonstrate. The football is even "prettier" on the eye but its not effective.

Kaminski was first choice in pre season and there was an expectation that if he was here, he would have started. But either way, we are weaker without him. He played more than Pears last season. Even if Pears did then play every game this season, we are still weaker. Ayala started half the games last season to be fair and was not injured for all of the ones he didnt.

I do see this season as a big departure from the second half of last year - it's much more gung ho. I thought we rode our luck in the first half of the season, but it was hard to put my finger on it - we were either good or absolutely woeful. The second half we were more consistent but seemed to lose the rub of the green or were let down by individual errors (Hedges at PNE). Our results were also brilliant for a period in February/March time (or around there). 

I agree on Kaminski, but I always had the impression JDT didn't. We are undoubtedly weaker in net but Pears seemed to win the battle for #1 in JDT's mind. 

JDT (and any other manager) clearly has their hands tied behind their backs working under the idiots upstairs and their lack of clarity/communication. I still think our current squad is better than results and our goals against column would suggest, mind. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by smiller14

[rigger]

4 hours ago, smiller14 said:

I do see this season as a big departure from the second half of last year - it's much more gung ho. I thought we rode our luck in the first half of the season, but it was hard to put my finger on it - we were either good or absolutely woeful. The second half we were more consistent but seemed to lose the rub of the green or were let down by individual errors (Hedges at PNE). Our results were also brilliant for a period in February/March time (or around there). 

I agree on Kaminski, but I always had the impression JDT didn't. We are undoubtedly weaker in net but Pears seemed to win the battle for #1 in JDT's mind. 

JDT (and any other manager) clearly has their hands tied behind their backs working under the idiots upstairs and their lack of clarity/communication. I still think our current squad is better than results and our goals against column would suggest, mind. 

Your thoughts are an opinion, the results and goals against column are facts.

[NeilInBristol]

JDT in.. venkys out 

[simongarnerisgod]

jdt named in next rangers manager list,currently 40/1 so it seems unlikely

favourite for the job is kevin muscat,now that is a car crash waiting to happen,that guy should be nowhere near a football field,horrible human being and downright thug

[Penwortham Blue]

8 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

RF99 my point being this.

 

if Rovers had converted 3 out of the 5 chances v Sunderland we would have coasted to victory. Ditto with Hull, Plymouth, Ipswich and the result may have been different if Rovers had done better with their clear chances against Leicester.

Regarding defensive issues, taking Pears out of the equation, Rovers rely too much on Carter alongside Hyam and should be rested putting Hill in for him. Carter has been exposed on too many occasions.

Midfield is another area, where we lose the ball and almost immediately the opposition are on us, we are too exposed through the middle. This is a result of the way we pile forward.

Something has to change and pretty quickly, this league is unforgiving.

 

 

Our XG is incredibly high. In most games that we have lost, the XG suggests we should have won but of course the match isn’t played on paper. We have never been a lucky team, we are missing gilt edge chances and letting really poor goals in and that is always going to result in poor outcomes and a lowly league position. 
 

The above is well illustrated by the fact that Sunderland, Cardiff and Leicester scored with pretty much every effort on target, the two recent penalties conceded and the fact that we have missed both penalties awarded to us.

[roversfan99]

Its not bad luck.

[47er]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not bad luck.

Agree, If the same thing happens over and over, its not bad luck. I accept that bad luck happens and can affect a game or two along the way but, bad luck, and good luck for that matter, can never be continuous.

If you're losing regularly then you're doing something wrong.

[simongarnerisgod]

1 minute ago, 47er said:

Agree, If the same thing happens over and over, its not bad luck. I accept that bad luck happens and can affect a game or two along the way but, bad luck, and good luck for that matter, can never be continuous.

If you're losing regularly then you're doing something wrong.

it should`nt take an ex park player (me) to see what a 100 cap international (jdt) can`t,we are far to open and easy to play against,there is a massive hole in midfield whenever we lose the ball around  the oppositions 18 yard box,at the moment we make kevin keegan seem like an defensive mastermind,definately need someone in midfield minding the shop as they used to say,at the moment we are getting run through

it does seem rather strange that after the watford game,where we were defensively solid and broke well on the counter,that the approach has been abandoned,it was perfect way to play a  game against a side with very good players

[booth]

18 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

it should`nt take an ex park player (me) to see what a 100 cap international (jdt) can`t,we are far to open and easy to play against,there is a massive hole in midfield whenever we lose the ball around  the oppositions 18 yard box,at the moment we make kevin keegan seem like an defensive mastermind,definately need someone in midfield minding the shop as they used to say,at the moment we are getting run through

it does seem rather strange that after the watford game,where we were defensively solid and broke well on the counter,that the approach has been abandoned,it was perfect way to play a  game against a side with very good players

It's not strange at all, just as it wasn't with Mowbray. They have barely any pressure on them if the instructions are to develop players and stay up. It's a perfect place to experiment, put your feet up, make mistakes without fear whilst getting paid. Any pressure comes from themselves not their bosses.

[simongarnerisgod]

18 minutes ago, booth said:

It's not strange at all, just as it wasn't with Mowbray. They have barely any pressure on them if the instructions are to develop players and stay up. It's a perfect place to experiment, put your feet up, make mistakes without fear whilst getting paid. Any pressure comes from themselves not their bosses.

jdt is different to mowbray as in he`s ambitious and not content to just pick his wages up

[47er]

1 hour ago, simongarnerisgod said:

it should`nt take an ex park player (me) to see what a 100 cap international (jdt) can`t,we are far to open and easy to play against,there is a massive hole in midfield whenever we lose the ball around  the oppositions 18 yard box,at the moment we make kevin keegan seem like an defensive mastermind,definately need someone in midfield minding the shop as they used to say,at the moment we are getting run through

it does seem rather strange that after the watford game,where we were defensively solid and broke well on the counter,that the approach has been abandoned,it was perfect way to play a  game against a side with very good players

We've been saying "3 in the middle, 2's no good" for months. I think your comparison with Keegan is bang-on. Newcastle were an attractive side too but never won anything under him.