Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[Exiled_Rover]

I find it amusing that everyone is overanalysing JDT (tactic only works when teams are attacking us / doesn't know how to get us back into games etc).

It really isn't that complicated - a top end Championship striker would have scored 10+ goals since the start of January and we'd be looking forward to our Playoff semi-final. We create chance after chance, but we have absolutely nobody upfront. It really is that simple. 

Gallagher couldn't score in a brothel, Vale is awful and he doesn't fancy Leonard (at this moment in time). Yes Dolan, Szmodics and Brereton-Diaz chip in with goals, but nowhere near enough to cover for a #9 that can't even bundle it over the line from 1 yard out. 

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I agree with your second sentence and it would have been interesting to hear Tomasson's rationale but he wasn't asked the question. I recall the first interview with Tomasson after the January window when he was asked about O'Brien. He said something like "what about a striker". He knew what he wanted, it was the recruitment team that let him and us down.

Are you saying he literally has no say in the incoming and outgoings?

[47er]

2 hours ago, Penwortham Blue said:

Maybe your right about yesterday but it is the Easter track record, Sheffield Wednesday and Yeovil under Bowyer and who can forget the capitulation last year at London Road and then the Stoke defeat at Ewood.

And Hiddersfield are in good form, absolutely the worst time to play them.

[chaddyrovers]

25 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

I'm not sure the players are particularly suited to the way JDT wants to play, especially the midfield and forwards. Or rather, some of them aren't good enough to play the way he wants to play. 

We have seen in the last 2 months and other times that these players can play the way JDT wants. 

25 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Good article in Lancslive the other day about how our full backs play like Man City's full backs, and how that means the CM's get dragged wide on to the touchline, and the FB's take their place in the middle of the park. It's a complicated system even for City and one mistake and the ball's in our own net cos everyone is out of position. 

Yes I know about how we play and used JRC and CM's like City and others teams do and I don't think complicated system at all but just need players understand and working on it in training which we clearly do. 

25 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

All things considered, JDT had done well this season. The good thing is there are lots of players he can replace with better so hopefully next season we improve again. 

I think JDT has been very good this season. onwards and upwards for me. 

[Exiled_Rover]

22 minutes ago, booth said:

Because he's worked wonders with a shit squad?

Bingo. His style of football requires the two CMs to be pivots and the two FBs to provide width in attack. It's no wonder we look much better with Buckley / A. Wharton in CM because they can actually pick a pass AND turn on the ball. 

Instead he's had to adapt to the limitations of the squad e.g. he's pushed Travis upfield (or drops him back to cover at RB for JRC) in possession (i.e. preventing him from fucking up on the ball like he did against PNE) and asks either Pickering or JRC to provide the extra man in CM... rather than push on in attack. 

This is still mostly Mowbray's squad. If Broughton / JDT bring in 3 more permanent signings in the summer of the same calibre of Hyam / Brittain / Szmodics I'll be absolutely delighted - more so if one of them is a bloody striker! I've no doubt we'd be comfortably in the Playoffs then. 

[47er]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

Broughton was at the last FF and gave excuses for the awful January window without (according to the minutes) any testing questions

There's a shock!

[47er]

At least we've had some highlights this season. In the top 6 for nearly all of it. Beat West Ham, Leicester and Spurs away in the Cups.

That pulsating Cup game at Bramall Lane where we should have won.

Apart from a promotion from Div i, seems eons ago, what memorable moments can we take from 5 years of Mowbray? Not one Cup run in 5 years in either com and, hardly ever in the top 6. Attendances sliding every year.

I'll judge JDT when he's had at least on decent transfer window---at the minimum that means an outstanding mid-fielder as good as O'Brien, someone to replace Brereton and another striker who knows where the net is.

If we keep the players we have ( apart from the Chilean) and got those 3 in and JDT fails then, no argument from me, his heads on the block.

[arbitro]

16 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Are you saying he literally has no say in the incoming and outgoings?

Of course he does, that would be stupid. Names will be out to him and vice versa. It's then up to the recruitment team to do the deals - that is where the failure been as far as I can see.

[Hasta]

 

His biggest problem is his inability to read what is happening on the pitch and change it to improve us, hence why we have only ever equalised from going behind once.  Only 1 sub after 64 minutes yesterday when we hadn’t got close to a shot on target was frustrating, and even then it wasn’t the right change. 
 

Like with Dack earlier in the season, it almost feels like he knows people are clamouring for Wharton to start over Morton, and as he has chosen not to do this he doesn’t want to give AW time in case he’s proven wrong .

 

[Sweaty Gussets]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have seen in the last 2 months and other times that these players can play the way JDT wants. 

We haven't seen us come back from a goal down. It's embarrassingly poor. So, like I said, we are good at some things, but not good at others. It's the things we aren't good at that I was referring to, which is why I said 'some' of the players aren't good enough. 

 

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I know about how we play and used JRC and CM's like City and others teams do and I don't think complicated system at all but just need players understand and working on it in training which we clearly do. 

Sorry coach, I forgot you had your badges. 

 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, roverandout said:

I'm still angry that Mowbray turned down a sizable transfer kitty when we were within reach of the top 2. That bloke was the biggest charlatan this club has appointed 

What makes you say that he did, bar rumours on here most of which generally are a load of shite?

He wanted to sell Rothwell to sign 2 players, not fitting with a man who didn't want money to spend. He turned a couple of kids on loan down, he admitted so, but other than that.

[tomphil]

The biggest balls up last season was the 4 Mowbray was able to bring in Jan and the choices of those signings and how he subsequently used them.

We can argue all day about whether there was money or not but we have to go on the evidence at hand, he got some money to bring 4 in which doesn't usually happen under Vs in Jan.   

They might as well all have stayed at home.

JDT hasn't had that luxury in January this season i think that's a point well worth considering.

[Mike E]

I genuinely think (for all of JDTs faults) we're in a much better position than I expected last July.

We haven't yet (but still could) taken advantage of our position, but I can accept that given the limitations of our squad. We have been exceptionally lucky that we have a superb academy backing up and assimilating into our first team.

Thomas, a goalscorer, a bruiser up front, a proper midfielder, a LB, a GK (assuming one of Pears/Kaminski leaves) is my wishlist for the summer.

[roversfan99]

Most of the squad is the same as last year, with some changes (Hyam for Lenihan, Brittain for Nyambe, Szmodics for Rothwell) admittedly.

If we fall out of the play offs this season and have a similar season to last season, say we finished 8th again. Both of the last 2 seasons would represent solid seasons in terms of league position, but hitting that same ceiling of not being able to see through a very good position.

But how could we expect anything different to happen even if we were again doing well come this time next season? Even with a couple of extra players and maybe a couple more graduates.

I don't get why people expected us to be lower down this season with a similar squad and a manager who we brought in to push us on.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

We haven't seen us come back from a goal down. It's embarrassingly poor. So, like I said, we are good at some things, but not good at others. It's the things we aren't good at that I was referring to, which is why I said 'some' of the players aren't good enough. 

Fair enough

1 hour ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Sorry coach, I forgot you had your badges. 

I don't have my coaching badges(sadly) but I watched alot of football and I am big fan or Pep Guardiola since his Barca days. Plus the tactical side of football has interested me for years now. 

18 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I genuinely think (for all of JDTs faults) we're in a much better position than I expected last July.

We haven't yet (but still could) taken advantage of our position, but I can accept that given the limitations of our squad. We have been exceptionally lucky that we have a superb academy backing up and assimilating into our first team.

Thomas, a goalscorer, a bruiser up front, a proper midfielder, a LB, a GK (assuming one of Pears/Kaminski leaves) is my wishlist for the summer.

Not heard the term a bruiser for a target man type before. 

I would like to sign Thomas if we could permanent but in the summer we need 2 strikers which is the priority for me this summer. 

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I don't get why people expected us to be lower down this season with a similar squad and a manager who we brought in to push us on.

Cos many of us thought this season would a transition season under a head coach who has never managed at this level or played in this league. Plus players adapting to his football style and man management. 

I think we are ahead where I thought we would be but given we are I want a playoff spot now 

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

What makes you say that he did, bar rumours on here most of which generally are a load of shite?

He wanted to sell Rothwell to sign 2 players, not fitting with a man who didn't want money to spend. He turned a couple of kids on loan down, he admitted so, but other than that.

Because the itk'ers said so 

[booth]

31 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't get why people expected us to be lower down this season with a similar squad and a manager who we brought in to push us on.

• Brereton had the season of a lifetime.
• We brought in more than one player in January last season.
• It was largely Mowbray's squad being asked to play differently.
• We lost two defenders and a midfielder pre-season, with no return.
• We lost an excellent defender back to his parent club.
• We were told from the outset it would take time.
• Mowbray showed no interest in resolving the lack of goals, impacting this season.
• Let's not forget the losing mentality that has been here for a while.

The squad was in a bit of a mess when JDT came in.

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

At least we've had some highlights this season. In the top 6 for nearly all of it. Beat West Ham, Leicester and Spurs away in the Cups.

That pulsating Cup game at Bramall Lane where we should have won.

Apart from a promotion from Div i, seems eons ago, what memorable moments can we take from 5 years of Mowbray? Not one Cup run in 5 years in either com and, hardly ever in the top 6. Attendances sliding every year.

I'll judge JDT when he's had at least on decent transfer window---at the minimum that means an outstanding mid-fielder as good as O'Brien, someone to replace Brereton and another striker who knows where the net is.

If we keep the players we have ( apart from the Chilean) and got those 3 in and JDT fails then, no argument from me, his heads on the block.

Never played spurs

[roversfan99]

15 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Because the itk'ers said so 

Exactly. Unsubstantiated gossip that doesn't add up.

33 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Fair enough

I don't have my coaching badges(sadly) but I watched alot of football and I am big fan or Pep Guardiola since his Barca days. Plus the tactical side of football has interested me for years now. 

Not heard the term a bruiser for a target man type before. 

I would like to sign Thomas if we could permanent but in the summer we need 2 strikers which is the priority for me this summer. 

Cos many of us thought this season would a transition season under a head coach who has never managed at this level or played in this league. Plus players adapting to his football style and man management. 

I think we are ahead where I thought we would be but given we are I want a playoff spot now 

Literally just parroting what Tomasson has said.

13 minutes ago, booth said:

• Brereton had the season of a lifetime.
• We brought in more than one player in January last season.
• It was largely Mowbray's squad being asked to play differently.
• We lost two defenders and a midfielder pre-season, with no return.
• We lost an excellent defender back to his parent club.
• We were told from the outset it would take time.
• Mowbray showed no interest in resolving the lack of goals, impacting this season.
• Let's not forget the losing mentality that has been here for a while.

The squad was in a bit of a mess when JDT came in.

It wasn't a mess. It finished 8th, and the 3 players that left with no return were then replaced with 3 signings for whom we paid fees for. Brereton having the season of a lifetime wasn't some freak occurance, he had massively improved the season before but we played a tactic last season that got the best out of him. Tomasson has struggled to play a way that is quite as suited to him but he is still easily our top scorer and he has still been good enough to earn a move to a top La Liga club. 

We all agreed that Mowbray needed to go, he couldn't take us any further and the point of Tomasson was to take us on to that next level. As the table stands, barring another collapse, we are in the top 6 which would be doing just that.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Most of the squad is the same as last year, with some changes (Hyam for Lenihan, Brittain for Nyambe, Szmodics for Rothwell) admittedly.

If we fall out of the play offs this season and have a similar season to last season, say we finished 8th again. Both of the last 2 seasons would represent solid seasons in terms of league position, but hitting that same ceiling of not being able to see through a very good position.

But how could we expect anything different to happen even if we were again doing well come this time next season? Even with a couple of extra players and maybe a couple more graduates.

I don't get why people expected us to be lower down this season with a similar squad and a manager who we brought in to push us on.

Maybe it's because 5 ,6 if you include Khadra of the starting 11 that got us into such a good position had departed the club.

We finished 8th last season but that was due to an exceptional couple of months, with our defence mean and Brererton banging them in.The minute Brererton got injured and Rothwell started playing shit we went tumbling down the table.The minute the squad players /January signings were called upon results where more often than not poor.

JDT did  not arrive into a top 8 squad.

 

[lraC]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

At least we've had some highlights this season. In the top 6 for nearly all of it. Beat West Ham, Leicester and Spurs away in the Cups.

That pulsating Cup game at Bramall Lane where we should have won.

Apart from a promotion from Div i, seems eons ago, what memorable moments can we take from 5 years of Mowbray? Not one Cup run in 5 years in either com and, hardly ever in the top 6. Attendances sliding every year.

I'll judge JDT when he's had at least on decent transfer window---at the minimum that means an outstanding mid-fielder as good as O'Brien, someone to replace Brereton and another striker who knows where the net is.

If we keep the players we have ( apart from the Chilean) and got those 3 in and JDT fails then, no argument from me, his heads on the block.

I must have missed Spurs away. What score was that one?

[tomphil]

Wouldn't say the squad was a mess but it needed urgent work.

We wouldn't be where we are if it was a mess, Tone and the gang had left a foundation but they'd lost interest in anything other than water treading years ago.

Another key thing for me is we never replaced Khadra who was inconsistent himself but always a thorne in the side of the opposition in the final 3rd.  Meant we could stretch teams a bit even if it came to nothing too often.

Took an age to get someone like Thomas in but now we aren't using him or getting out of him enough.  

[roversfan99]

20 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Maybe it's because 5 ,6 if you include Khadra of the starting 11 that got us into such a good position had departed the club.

We finished 8th last season but that was due to an exceptional couple of months, with our defence mean and Brererton banging them in.The minute Brererton got injured and Rothwell started playing shit we went tumbling down the table.The minute the squad players /January signings were called upon results where more often than not poor.

JDT did  not arrive into a top 8 squad.

 

Its irrelevant how those points were picked up, we finished 8th and accumulated 69 points over the course of the season. We won 5 out of 6 prior to the international break as opposed to the 6 out of 6 we won prior to new year last season, no one would ever cut this years run of form out.

Kaminski, Pickering, Brereton, Gallagher, Wharton, Travis and Buckley were all regulars last season, not even factoring in Ayala and Dolan. The 3 out of contractors were replaced to the cost of £4m ish in the summer. We also didn't have Carter here last season, he is a different player after a loan spell in League 1 where he excelled. Dack wasn't fit to start a single game last season. We also have signed a couple of extra loans.

We also crucially replaced a manager we all agreed couldn't push us on with an upgrade. 

[chaddyrovers]

56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Literally just parroting what Tomasson has said..

no cos I was saying this in the summer to you that this would transition season and it would take time for JDT to settle in and learn about the leagues plus for JDT to get the signings and players he wants to play his style of football. 

I said on this on 1st August which I said" For me its work in progress and I would accept top half in his first season and transition season if its more time to bring in new style of play and his philosophy."

https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/35339-transfer-window-complete-where’s-gregg/?do=findComment&comment=2353966

 

[booth]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It wasn't a mess. It finished 8th, and the 3 players that left with no return were then replaced with 3 signings for whom we paid fees for. Brereton having the season of a lifetime wasn't some freak occurance, he had massively improved the season before but we played a tactic last season that got the best out of him. Tomasson has struggled to play a way that is quite as suited to him but he is still easily our top scorer and he has still been good enough to earn a move to a top La Liga club. 

We all agreed that Mowbray needed to go, he couldn't take us any further and the point of Tomasson was to take us on to that next level. As the table stands, barring another collapse, we are in the top 6 which would be doing just that.

The team that finished 8th wasn't quite the team JDT inherited was it? But even so Brereton had the best season probably of his career last season as he hasn't been as good this season. "Massively improved" is an overexaggeration, but even if he did have a decent season I'm not sure the difference that makes anyway. Mowbray didn't have anything to do with Brereton playing well, he struck it lucky with Chile call up and the confidence boost that brought. And he's more Brereton than Diaz this season.

And if Brereton hadn't been scoring last season, the first half would have been the same as the second half. We wouldn't have finished 8th for sure. 8th massively flattered us last season, and 8th would massively flatter us this season all things considered.

It's an unbalanced squad with some inconsistent or very poor players (some that poor they can't even get on the bench despite injuries), without a decent striker and an over-reliance on academy players. The fact people are now calling for a 19 year old lad, without a minute of professional football to his name, to come in and score goals is saying something.