Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[philipl]

On 16/04/2023 at 00:15, Penwortham Blue said:

If they had moved quicker in the summer as well, they would have got Anel A. As it is, he is one of the key reasons for Sheffield United going up. 

Sheffield United really did the dirty on this one and haven't been punished sufficiently. They gazumped us by a huge margin using the money they should have paid to Liverpool.

[chaddyrovers]

JDT's comments are spot on and correct. 

[roversfan99]

Copy and paste.

[Upside Down]

11 hours ago, philipl said:

Sheffield United really did the dirty on this one and haven't been punished sufficiently. They gazumped us by a huge margin using the money they should have paid to Liverpool.

The EFL could in theory not allow them to get promoted. Second place is rewarded with promotion only because the EFL have granted it. So they could just take that prize away from them for not complying with the rules.

Whether that is correct I don't know for certain, if someone knows otherwise then please respond.

[DE.]

We finished last season on 69 points. To get to that now we'll have to win two of our last three games against Burnley, Millwall and Luton. I don't buy that Tomasson has a significantly weaker team than Mowbray, nor that the league is better this season than it was last season. If anything I'd say it's worse.

It's fair to argue that it's his first season in the English game, he's basically a rookie manager, and he was massively let down in the January transfer window. All totally fair points. Still, as far as being a rookie manager is concerned - McKenna and Carrick have done wonders at Ipswich and Boro respectively in their first full seasons as managers, neither of whom had any proper management experience beforehand. It's not a total excuse. 

JDT has positives, undoubtedly, but it would be remiss to ignore the negatives, even if we accept that there are some genuine reasons as to why he's been struggling. Striker recruitment, in my view, being the key factor. He deserves time to analyse his mistakes this season and go into next season with better support from his recruitment team. He does have things he needs to improve, though, and that has to be acknowledged as much as anything else that's wrong at the club.

I'm not at the point where I'd want him to leave. Not with the people we have in charge of getting another manager. They could very easily hire a total dud who sinks us back into League 1. I don't think JDT will relegate us - but then, neither would Mowbray, and we were all happy to let him go on the basis we'd see an improvement. If we finish with less points then we've gone backwards. Not all on the manager, of course - not even close - but it is what it is. 

We'll be in the Championship next season. No doubt about that in my mind. Even if we snuck into the playoffs we'd never make it past the semis. It's a big summer in terms of recruitment and whether the manager stays. I can see him walking away, citing lack of support, especially if his relationship with Broughton really is strained. If he does stay then there's a lot he needs to digest from this season and become better at next season, along with many other areas of the club. He and Broughton need to be incredibly proactive on finding strikers, because with BBD leaving we're likely to be left with only Sam Gallagher as a senior recognised striker, a bloke who hasn't got into double figures since the 16/17 season.

Being in and around the playoffs two seasons in a row, even if we ultimately fell away both times - as seems will happen again this season - suggests a foundation of sorts is there. We're just missing a few very important pieces. I do believe JDT is one of those potential pieces, as long as he is willing to learn from his mistakes. I'm not so sure about the rest of the club. Broughton and the recruitment team have a lot to prove in the summer.

[roverandout]

13 minutes ago, DE. said:

We finished last season on 69 points. To get to that now we'll have to win two of our last three games against Burnley, Millwall and Luton. I don't buy that Tomasson has a significantly weaker team than Mowbray, nor that the league is better this season than it was last season. If anything I'd say it's worse.

It's fair to argue that it's his first season in the English game, he's basically a rookie manager, and he was massively let down in the January transfer window. All totally fair points. Still, as far as being a rookie manager is concerned - McKenna and Carrick have done wonders at Ipswich and Boro respectively in their first full seasons as managers, neither of whom had any proper management experience beforehand. It's not a total excuse. 

JDT has positives, undoubtedly, but it would be remiss to ignore the negatives, even if we accept that there are some genuine reasons as to why he's been struggling. Striker recruitment, in my view, being the key factor. He deserves time to analyse his mistakes this season and go into next season with better support from his recruitment team. He does have things he needs to improve, though, and that has to be acknowledged as much as anything else that's wrong at the club.

I'm not at the point where I'd want him to leave. Not with the people we have in charge of getting another manager. They could very easily hire a total dud who sinks us back into League 1. I don't think JDT will relegate us - but then, neither would Mowbray, and we were all happy to let him go on the basis we'd see an improvement. If we finish with less points then we've gone backwards. Not all on the manager, of course - not even close - but it is what it is. 

We'll be in the Championship next season. No doubt about that in my mind. Even if we snuck into the playoffs we'd never make it past the semis. It's a big summer in terms of recruitment and whether the manager stays. I can see him walking away, citing lack of support, especially if his relationship with Broughton really is strained. If he does stay then there's a lot he needs to digest from this season and become better at next season, along with many other areas of the club. He and Broughton need to be incredibly proactive on finding strikers, because with BBD leaving we're likely to be left with only Sam Gallagher as a senior recognised striker, a bloke who hasn't got into double figures since the 16/17 season.

Being in and around the playoffs two seasons in a row, even if we ultimately fell away both times - as seems will happen again this season - suggests a foundation of sorts is there. We're just missing a few very important pieces. I do believe JDT is one of those potential pieces, as long as he is willing to learn from his mistakes. I'm not so sure about the rest of the club. Broughton and the recruitment team have a lot to prove in the summer.

Post of the day

[booth]

50 minutes ago, DE. said:

We finished last season on 69 points. To get to that now we'll have to win two of our last three games against Burnley, Millwall and Luton. I don't buy that Tomasson has a significantly weaker team than Mowbray, nor that the league is better this season than it was last season. If anything I'd say it's worse.

It's fair to argue that it's his first season in the English game, he's basically a rookie manager, and he was massively let down in the January transfer window. All totally fair points. Still, as far as being a rookie manager is concerned - McKenna and Carrick have done wonders at Ipswich and Boro respectively in their first full seasons as managers, neither of whom had any proper management experience beforehand. It's not a total excuse. 

JDT has positives, undoubtedly, but it would be remiss to ignore the negatives, even if we accept that there are some genuine reasons as to why he's been struggling. Striker recruitment, in my view, being the key factor. He deserves time to analyse his mistakes this season and go into next season with better support from his recruitment team. He does have things he needs to improve, though, and that has to be acknowledged as much as anything else that's wrong at the club.

I'm not at the point where I'd want him to leave. Not with the people we have in charge of getting another manager. They could very easily hire a total dud who sinks us back into League 1. I don't think JDT will relegate us - but then, neither would Mowbray, and we were all happy to let him go on the basis we'd see an improvement. If we finish with less points then we've gone backwards. Not all on the manager, of course - not even close - but it is what it is. 

We'll be in the Championship next season. No doubt about that in my mind. Even if we snuck into the playoffs we'd never make it past the semis. It's a big summer in terms of recruitment and whether the manager stays. I can see him walking away, citing lack of support, especially if his relationship with Broughton really is strained. If he does stay then there's a lot he needs to digest from this season and become better at next season, along with many other areas of the club. He and Broughton need to be incredibly proactive on finding strikers, because with BBD leaving we're likely to be left with only Sam Gallagher as a senior recognised striker, a bloke who hasn't got into double figures since the 16/17 season.

Being in and around the playoffs two seasons in a row, even if we ultimately fell away both times - as seems will happen again this season - suggests a foundation of sorts is there. We're just missing a few very important pieces. I do believe JDT is one of those potential pieces, as long as he is willing to learn from his mistakes. I'm not so sure about the rest of the club. Broughton and the recruitment team have a lot to prove in the summer.

Bit unfair to compare to Carrick considering he's got the Championship's top goalscorer who has scored well over double what our top scorer has this season. I'd be happy to say that if we had a 28 goal striker in the squad, we'd be challenging for the automatics.

The club has done that thing they do under Venkys ownership - another bizarre and unfathomable decision. Bringing in a manager that needs players to play a certain way to much fanfare, but then not backed him. It's like not selling Rothwell and Brereton then Broughton saying, we have to work within a budget. It makes no sense.  Any other club would have sold them and brought in what we needed. Weird CEO, strange recruitment, odd owners and for years now a bunch of players with the mentality that 45 minutes effort will do.

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, booth said:

Bit unfair to compare to Carrick considering he's got the Championship's top goalscorer who has scored well over double what our top scorer has this season. I'd be happy to say that if we had a 28 goal striker in the squad, we'd be challenging for the automatics.

The club has done that thing they do under Venkys ownership - another bizarre and unfathomable decision. Bringing in a manager that needs players to play a certain way to much fanfare, but then not backed him. It's like not selling Rothwell and Brereton then Broughton saying, we have to work within a budget. It makes no sense.  Any other club would have sold them and brought in what we needed. Weird CEO, strange recruitment, odd owners and for years now a bunch of players with the mentality that 45 minutes effort will do.

I think we'd both agree that ultimate culpability always falls on the owners. Even if we're talking recruitment, Venky's are the ones responsible for the calibre of employee at the club - whether that be CEO, Head of Recruitment, and everyone below. 

[philipl]

JDT is doing really well at Rovers.

Class appointment. 

[AllRoverAsia]

11 hours ago, DE. said:

We finished last season on 69 points. To get to that now we'll have to win two of our last three games against Burnley, Millwall and Luton. I don't buy that Tomasson has a significantly weaker team than Mowbray, nor that the league is better this season than it was last season. If anything I'd say it's worse.

It's fair to argue that it's his first season in the English game, he's basically a rookie manager, and he was massively let down in the January transfer window. All totally fair points. Still, as far as being a rookie manager is concerned - McKenna and Carrick have done wonders at Ipswich and Boro respectively in their first full seasons as managers, neither of whom had any proper management experience beforehand. It's not a total excuse. 

JDT has positives, undoubtedly, but it would be remiss to ignore the negatives, even if we accept that there are some genuine reasons as to why he's been struggling. Striker recruitment, in my view, being the key factor. He deserves time to analyse his mistakes this season and go into next season with better support from his recruitment team. He does have things he needs to improve, though, and that has to be acknowledged as much as anything else that's wrong at the club.

I'm not at the point where I'd want him to leave. Not with the people we have in charge of getting another manager. They could very easily hire a total dud who sinks us back into League 1. I don't think JDT will relegate us - but then, neither would Mowbray, and we were all happy to let him go on the basis we'd see an improvement. If we finish with less points then we've gone backwards. Not all on the manager, of course - not even close - but it is what it is. 

We'll be in the Championship next season. No doubt about that in my mind. Even if we snuck into the playoffs we'd never make it past the semis. It's a big summer in terms of recruitment and whether the manager stays. I can see him walking away, citing lack of support, especially if his relationship with Broughton really is strained. If he does stay then there's a lot he needs to digest from this season and become better at next season, along with many other areas of the club. He and Broughton need to be incredibly proactive on finding strikers, because with BBD leaving we're likely to be left with only Sam Gallagher as a senior recognised striker, a bloke who hasn't got into double figures since the 16/17 season.

Being in and around the playoffs two seasons in a row, even if we ultimately fell away both times - as seems will happen again this season - suggests a foundation of sorts is there. We're just missing a few very important pieces. I do believe JDT is one of those potential pieces, as long as he is willing to learn from his mistakes. I'm not so sure about the rest of the club. Broughton and the recruitment team have a lot to prove in the summer.

JDT will not beat Mowbrays points total of last season.

We already know that the target is frees and loans.

The plan should be to build a team around Adam Wharton as the fulcrum and replace Gallagher, Travis and Dolan for starters.

I seriously doubt that our DoF and recruitment team have the talent and muscle to attract the best talent from our shopping in Poundland.

Next seasons Championship will be stronger that at present and it will be a struggle for us.

Edited April 23, 2023 by AllRoverAsia

[Tugayisgod]

12 hours ago, DE. said:

We finished last season on 69 points. To get to that now we'll have to win two of our last three games against Burnley, Millwall and Luton. I don't buy that Tomasson has a significantly weaker team than Mowbray, nor that the league is better this season than it was last season. If anything I'd say it's worse.

It's fair to argue that it's his first season in the English game, he's basically a rookie manager, and he was massively let down in the January transfer window. All totally fair points. Still, as far as being a rookie manager is concerned - McKenna and Carrick have done wonders at Ipswich and Boro respectively in their first full seasons as managers, neither of whom had any proper management experience beforehand. It's not a total excuse. 

JDT has positives, undoubtedly, but it would be remiss to ignore the negatives, even if we accept that there are some genuine reasons as to why he's been struggling. Striker recruitment, in my view, being the key factor. He deserves time to analyse his mistakes this season and go into next season with better support from his recruitment team. He does have things he needs to improve, though, and that has to be acknowledged as much as anything else that's wrong at the club.

I'm not at the point where I'd want him to leave. Not with the people we have in charge of getting another manager. They could very easily hire a total dud who sinks us back into League 1. I don't think JDT will relegate us - but then, neither would Mowbray, and we were all happy to let him go on the basis we'd see an improvement. If we finish with less points then we've gone backwards. Not all on the manager, of course - not even close - but it is what it is. 

We'll be in the Championship next season. No doubt about that in my mind. Even if we snuck into the playoffs we'd never make it past the semis. It's a big summer in terms of recruitment and whether the manager stays. I can see him walking away, citing lack of support, especially if his relationship with Broughton really is strained. If he does stay then there's a lot he needs to digest from this season and become better at next season, along with many other areas of the club. He and Broughton need to be incredibly proactive on finding strikers, because with BBD leaving we're likely to be left with only Sam Gallagher as a senior recognised striker, a bloke who hasn't got into double figures since the 16/17 season.

Being in and around the playoffs two seasons in a row, even if we ultimately fell away both times - as seems will happen again this season - suggests a foundation of sorts is there. We're just missing a few very important pieces. I do believe JDT is one of those potential pieces, as long as he is willing to learn from his mistakes. I'm not so sure about the rest of the club. Broughton and the recruitment team have a lot to prove in the summer.

Good, sensible post DE

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

JDT is doing really well at Rovers.

Class appointment. 

He is doing well and we need to keep him here long term. 

He has been very good and move this club on from Mowbray time here. 

I just don't get why some fans don't want him here and want him sack which I think is crazy talk and sad to see from fellow Rovers fans

[Wheelton Blue]

Any mention of wanting Tomasson out is just crazy talk. People have short memories of the dross which Mowbray served up.

We're a far better side than what we were when he took over. Yes, he makes mistakes with selections and tactics, but considering the standard of some of our players, he's done an excellent job so far.

What's crucial is that the club back him properly in the summer. We're 3 or 4 players off being a rather good team.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I want to see our Manager backed with serious Coin next season with the direct aim of promotion.

Then I woke up.

[Mattyblue]

Only a few on here obviously, but I honestly find it amazing that folk would actually want him sacked. First season, average budget, average players, been in the mix all season.

He’s ‘a lot to learn’ to coin a phrase, and obviously deserves stick too, but to actually remove him from his post? Ridiculous stuff (from fans who should know better going off the age of some of them posting it).

 

[RevidgeBlue]

Don't want him sacked but is it too harsh to say the jury is still out?

Has cost us numerous points (and an FA Cup semi final place) by giving up in games and attempting to park the bus with 15-20 minutes to go imo and the spat with Wharton and ignoring him for the majority of the season will probably prove the difference between securing a play off spot and not.

Edited April 23, 2023 by RevidgeBlue

[jim mk2]

For the first half of the season I had serious doubts about Tomasson. Despite our elevated league position some of the performances, particularly away from home, were some of the worst I've seen. The playing around at the back drove me mad

But I have to say in recent months the players have adapted to his methods and although results have fallen away, we've been playing some excellent football at times. Leicester in the cup was one of the most enjoyable experiences in years.

Tomasson has made mistakes with some of the teams he's picked and his tactics and substitutions but overall, I think it's fair to say he's done a good job with a very limited squad in terms of numbers and quality. Some players clearly aren't good enough and should have been replaced but he has had to make the best of it

We could miss out on the playoffs now - which would be a huge disappointment after being in the top 6 for most of the season - but I hope he stays and is given some decent money to spend in the summer

 

 

[Norbert Rassragr]

He's done pretty well considering he's working for Venkys, and was a bit late in being appointed. The lack of a decent striker is what has crippled us the most. Better than Mowbray? Probably. We'd be nowhere near the play offs by now, and be in a run of 1 win in the last 15 games if Tony was still here.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Any mention of wanting Tomasson out is just crazy talk. People have short memories of the dross which Mowbray served up.

We're a far better side than what we were when he took over. Yes, he makes mistakes with selections and tactics, but considering the standard of some of our players, he's done an excellent job so far.

What's crucial is that the club back him properly in the summer. We're 3 or 4 players off being a rather good team.

Yes I think anyone suggesting JDT should be sack or even saying the jury is still out is utter bonkers IMO. I just don't know what people honestly expect these days

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Don't want him sacked but is it too harsh to say the jury is still out?

Has cost us numerous points (and an FA Cup semi final place) by giving up in games and attempting to park the bus with 15-20 minutes to go imo and the spat with Wharton and ignoring him for the majority of the season will probably prove the difference between securing a play off spot and not.

are you being serious here? 

how can the jury still be out over JDT? 2 good cup runs and been in the top 6 most of the season and in the playoff hunt wasn't what most fans thought would be this season? 

[DE.]

To suggest somebody is not allowed to say "the jury is still out" is to shut down discussion and refuse to accept any criticism of JDT. I don't find that acceptable. Everyone has a right to a reasonable opinion. Obviously to suggest he should be sacked is going too far, but equally to say he's the best thing that's happened to the club since Venky's joined is also taking it too far after a single season where JDT is unlikely to have achieved any more than Bowyer or Mowbray (cup run aside as far as Mowbray is concerned). It just seems like recency bias or an overly romantic view. 

Whilst it's obvious the squad has limitations, we clearly aren't alone in that. I'd argue the vast majority of teams in the league could say the same thing. The difference comes down to management, coaching and recruitment. There are plenty of aforementioned reasons to defend JDT - a wonky structure above him, to say the least, inexcusable striker recruitment, basic errors made by the recruitment team in the January window, the fact he's a rookie manager getting his feet under the table in a league he's unfamiliar with. I don't think anyone would argue he's had struggles outside of his control to contend with - but then, so will most managers in this league. 

After-match reactions are always going to be a little over the top, especially after a bad result. I'd hope discussion in general, though, will be more balanced and be able to focus on the good and not-so-good elements of JDT's management in his first season. 

[Mattyblue]

I’d like to have seem JDT with Bowyer’s players…

[DE.]

Tough to say if Bowyer's players could have adapted to JDT's methods any better than the current squad. We obviously had better strikers in terms of Rhodes (who was often criticised despite his goals) and Gestede, but the midfield was a disaster with the likes of Lowe, Williamson, Feeney, etc. Goalkeeper was also a weak position for us during that time. 

It would have been really interesting to see how the likes of Cairney, Dunn, Marshall, Dann and Hanley would have played under JDT. I could see Cairney, King and even Dunn potentially excelling... but would the likes of Todd Kane, Dann, Hanley and Henley been comfortable with the passing around the back style? Would Robbo, Eastwood or Jake Kean been able to handle things better than Kaminski or Pears? 

It's a very interesting what-if scenario.

[Mattyblue]

End of the day Bowyer never got us out of mid table with one of the league’s biggest budgets in his early seasons. Not comparable to what JDT has to work with…

[DE.]

Our big budget had mostly been squandered by the time Bowyer arrived though. The fees paid during his time are comparable to what we've paid for the likes of Szmodics and Hyam, and BBD isn't too far away from what Rhodes cost. In terms of wages he would have had a higher budget, but again, a lot wasted on poor players which he didn't have a huge amount of control over as many were there before he took the position and not easily shifted. Some of his wage budget would have been eaten by players who had their contracts terminated early like Etuhu and Murphy, too, not to mention all of the Portuguese players. 

The situation Bowyer walked into was also a lot more toxic with angrier fans (most of whom have moved on nowadays), Shaw, Agnew, Shebby, and so on. In terms of structure I'd say he was working in a more chaotic environment than JDT, regardless of our recruitment failure in January. He had his own problems which JDT hasn't had to deal with. 

[Wheelton Blue]

The time to judge Tomasson is after the next window or two.

He's currently operating with two thirds of a good side, the other third being poor.

Recruit well and the ball is then in his court.