v Swansea City (a) - 6/8/22

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

A few on here not long back were also trying to make out that it isn’t all about the three points.

It is, always.

Yep we definitely had some along the lines of 'I would rather lose than play that way' mentality.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, DE. said:

Martin falls into a long line of managers/coaches who struggles to grasp the point of the game is to win the match, not achieve some philosophical or moral victory. Mowbray was like that as well. 

He'll only realise when he's been giving his marching orders. Dem possession stats tho.

Russell Martin wants to play like Man City and be the Pep Guardiola of the championship which is fine with me but you got to deliver results and have a end product. I've seen a few people/pundits suggest they could be top 6 this season. I think they are way off that.  

[DE.]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Russell Martin wants to play like Man City and be the Pep Guardiola of the championship which is fine with me but you got to deliver results and have a end product. I've seen a few people/pundits suggest they could be top 6 this season. I think they are way off that.  

It's a nice idea but the reality is Pep has been surrounded by world-class players wherever he's been. It's easier to implement his philosophy when you have the best players in the league at your disposal. The Championship is a different beast and requires multiple different ways of playing to achieve success if you aren't one of the top clubs in the division. It's something JDT seems to have grasped immediately which can only be a positive from our perspective.

[RevidgeBlue]

27 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

A few on here not long back were also trying to make out that it isn’t all about the three points.

It is, always.

Can't recall anyone ever saying that specifically.

My view when Allardyce was here (and still is) give me 38 or 46 horrible scrappy 1-0 wins all day long. BUT if you're not in contention for League titles or trophies and are only winning enough games to ensure you stay up you need a bit of nice football or entertainment along the way as well otherwise the whole thing becomes exceptionally dull.

Going back to yesterday, I didn't find our team's performance displeasing on the eye at all. I thought we could have played a lot better but it's only this group of players second game together under JDT and that will hopefully come.

[Mattyblue]

You’re joking, loads were saying it! ‘Miserable after 3-0 wins’ etc. 

Good job fans don’t run professional clubs!

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

It's a nice idea but the reality is Pep has been surrounded by world-class players wherever he's been. It's easier to implement his philosophy when you have the best players in the league at your disposal. The Championship is a different beast and requires multiple different ways of playing to achieve success if you aren't one of the top clubs in the division. It's something JDT seems to have grasped immediately which can only be a positive from our perspective.

I agree with all that. Its something that Swansea and why they brought Russell Martin in cos that the football they want to play. Its come down to smart recruitment and finding the right players that fit that Philosophy for them. Good Luck to them anyway

Yes JDT has grasped that very quickly and he has game plan which helps and willing to adapt the plan to the opposition defensive whilst we still try to play the way he wants us attacking wise. We scored 3 very good goals and smart goals. Hedges showing awareness and understand he could score to pass to Szmodics. Great pass by Hedges in behind Wood for BBD to take down and run onto the goal to finish and Dolan again not being greedy but being aware to pass to Captain Travis to score 

[RevidgeBlue]

Only team with 6 points - two clean sheets. It's hard not to get carried away but I'm trying desperately hard not to and casually chalk it up as a "decent start".

Think the success over the first couple of games has been built on the two centre backs, Ayala and Wharton. Thought Wharton in particular was absolutely sensational here once again. The worry surely has to be Ayala's injury record and if we somehow could get JPVH in it would be a massive boost.

Kudos to Hedges, very good yesterday and it was the first time I've thought he may end up a decent acquisition. He looked like a bloke off the street who had wandered into a professional football match last season so it shows the difference a bit of decent coaching can make.

How the hell has anyone managed to unlock the howitzer in Travis? He never looked like he had one of those in his locker previously.

Gallagher still woeful, the two results are all the more impressive playing effectively with ten men, if we could replace himwith someone decent we really would be flying imo.

Super goal from BBD. Although the same type of gamble didn't come off in Jan, for me we need to roll the dice once again with him and keep him until January then see where we are imo

The funny thing is, I don't think we've even played that well yet! There looks like there could be a lot more to come from this group of players under this manager.

Come on Waggott and Broughton, there's something potentially a bit special in the offing here. Do your jobs and give the manager the quality and strength in depth to succeed over a 46 game season.

[Herbie6590]

JPVH in Brighton squad today sadly…

[M_B]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Only team with 6 points - two clean sheets. It's hard not to get carried away but I'm trying desperately hard not to and casually chalk it up as a "decent start".

Think the success over the first couple of games has been built on the two centre backs, Ayala and Wharton. Thought Wharton in particular was absolutely sensational here once again. The worry surely has to be Ayala's injury record and if we somehow could get JPVH in it would be a massive boost.

Kudos to Hedges, very good yesterday and it was the first time I've thought he may end up a decent acquisition. He looked like a bloke off the street who had wandered into a professional football match last season so it shows the difference a bit of decent coaching can make.

How the hell has anyone managed to unlock the howitzer in Travis? He never looked like he had one of those in his locker previously.

Gallagher still woeful, the two results are all the more impressive playing effectively with ten men, if we could replace himwith someone decent we really would be flying imo.

Super goal from BBD. Although the same type of gamble didn't come off in Jan, for me we need to roll the dice once again with him and keep him until January then see where we are imo

The funny thing is, I don't think we've even played that well yet! There looks like there could be a lot more to come from this group of players under this manager.

Come on Waggott and Broughton, there's something potentially a bit special in the offing here. Do your jobs and give the manager the quality and strength in depth to succeed over a 46 game season.

Went to Preston last season and Hedges was our best player, he also had a decent game at  Birmingham.

He's carrying on where he left off last season.

[tonyoz]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Only team with 6 points - two clean sheets. It's hard not to get carried away but I'm trying desperately hard not to and casually chalk it up as a "decent start".

Think the success over the first couple of games has been built on the two centre backs, Ayala and Wharton. Thought Wharton in particular was absolutely sensational here once again. The worry surely has to be Ayala's injury record and if we somehow could get JPVH in it would be a massive boost.

Kudos to Hedges, very good yesterday and it was the first time I've thought he may end up a decent acquisition. He looked like a bloke off the street who had wandered into a professional football match last season so it shows the difference a bit of decent coaching can make.

How the hell has anyone managed to unlock the howitzer in Travis? He never looked like he had one of those in his locker previously.

Gallagher still woeful, the two results are all the more impressive playing effectively with ten men, if we could replace himwith someone decent we really would be flying imo.

Super goal from BBD. Although the same type of gamble didn't come off in Jan, for me we need to roll the dice once again with him and keep him until January then see where we are imo

The funny thing is, I don't think we've even played that well yet! There looks like there could be a lot more to come from this group of players under this manager.

Come on Waggott and Broughton, there's something potentially a bit special in the offing here. Do your jobs and give the manager the quality and strength in depth to succeed over a 46 game season.

Good post I think. Isn’t it amazing that only one team can manage to win 2 games on the trot?

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, M_B said:

Went to Preston last season and Hedges was our best player, he also had a decent game at  Birmingham.

He's carrying on where he left off last season.

Didn't see either of those games, I had lost interest in the Mowbray train wreck long before then so I'll take your word for it.

I didn't think he was particularly good v QPR. Terrible first half, a lot busier second but gave the ball away a lot and not much end product.

Much better yesterday imo.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I wouldn't have brought him on cos he didn't how we wanted to see the game out. 

 

I think you made an excellent point there

Swansea wanted to go back to the possession style of football after Cooper and that was one of the problem between the ownership/broad and Cooper. 

Russell Martin believe in his possession football but they look quality striker who will finish it of at the end of all. Piroe isn't playing as the number 9 now that Obafemi is there who I don't rate and pleased we didn't sign him

Since the PL days, Dack I think is by far the best player we have had at seeing games out, game management and using his brain to run the clock down.

I think once we went to a back 5 though, his natural position was obviously no longer there, but I think there would have been merit to bring him on instead of Vale to use his know how.

I don't think Martin is a very good manager. Shows even more how stupid they were not to do everything to keep Cooper who got them into the play offs twice.

5 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Only team with 6 points - two clean sheets. It's hard not to get carried away but I'm trying desperately hard not to and casually chalk it up as a "decent start".

Think the success over the first couple of games has been built on the two centre backs, Ayala and Wharton. Thought Wharton in particular was absolutely sensational here once again. The worry surely has to be Ayala's injury record and if we somehow could get JPVH in it would be a massive boost.

Kudos to Hedges, very good yesterday and it was the first time I've thought he may end up a decent acquisition. He looked like a bloke off the street who had wandered into a professional football match last season so it shows the difference a bit of decent coaching can make.

How the hell has anyone managed to unlock the howitzer in Travis? He never looked like he had one of those in his locker previously.

Gallagher still woeful, the two results are all the more impressive playing effectively with ten men, if we could replace himwith someone decent we really would be flying imo.

Super goal from BBD. Although the same type of gamble didn't come off in Jan, for me we need to roll the dice once again with him and keep him until January then see where we are imo

The funny thing is, I don't think we've even played that well yet! There looks like there could be a lot more to come from this group of players under this manager.

Come on Waggott and Broughton, there's something potentially a bit special in the offing here. Do your jobs and give the manager the quality and strength in depth to succeed over a 46 game season.

Hedges was very good v Stoke, Preston and Birmingham at the end of last season. He has not suddenly become a different player. He really did fit the tactics yesterday with his work off the ball.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, tonyoz said:

Good post I think. Isn’t it amazing that only one team can manage to win 2 games on the trot?

It is quite a remarkable stat I think which may just indicate that the Championship will be much of a muchness this season and is there for the taking.

[rigger]

17 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

JPVH in Brighton squad today sadly…

Tin hat on, but if I had a choice between signing JPVH and Phillips. Personally I would want Phillips.

[Colt Seavers]

1 hour ago, pomster said:

There’s an interview knocking about somewhere were JDT says Remy is the man for tactics or words to that affect 

I love the idea of a tactical genius pulling the strings behind the front of house man.

Think Taylor to Clough, Paisley to Shankley and Harford to Kenny. 

When did we last have genuine know how and quality in that role?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Colt Seavers said:

I love the idea of a tactical genius pulling the strings behind the front of house man.

Think Taylor to Clough, Paisley to Shankley and Harford to Kenny. 

When did we last have genuine know how and quality in that role?

Venus. Just joking.

[USABlue]

I loved that Martin said how we played against QPR and how different we were today   Have vision of Martin going through, flippin pages in his scouting report wondering WTF?

Love we are not Mowbaryesque one dimensional.  Not getting carried away cos one or two of those blocks don't happen and the Swans are right in it but what a professional performance by the lads.  More please.

[chaddyrovers]

50 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think once we went to a back 5 though, his natural position was obviously no longer there, but I think there would have been merit to bring him on instead of Vale to use his know how.

Dack isn't a striker tho and Vale is a striker and that what the role was. Dack is number 10 and if we don't play a ten then he shouldn't be in the team. 

50 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think Martin is a very good manager. Shows even more how stupid they were not to do everything to keep Cooper who got them into the play offs twice.

 

Swansea ownership and board wanted this philosophy like they did under Martinez and Rodgers, Cooper and the Swansea Ownership and hierarchy had a massive falling out over him and the signings Cooper wanted that they wouldn't fund.   

42 minutes ago, rigger said:

Tin hat on, but if I had a choice between signing JPVH and Phillips. Personally I would want Phillips.

Can you explain why you would do that please? 

[joey_big_nose]

51 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Didn't see either of those games, I had lost interest in the Mowbray train wreck long before then so I'll take your word for it.

I didn't think he was particularly good v QPR. Terrible first half, a lot busier second but gave the ball away a lot and not much end product.

Much better yesterday imo.

Yeah he's been a bit frustrating but like Dolan you can see if he just improves his  decision making a bit then he'll be a real handful. They've both got the raw qualities in different ways to scare defenders and create chances.

Dolan and Hedges will have really good seasons this year imo.

With Gally its a bit different - he's also got a lot of excellent qualities (mainly athletic), but it's not just his final pass or taking on a man he gets wrong. Its everything about his movement, how he receives the ball, playing back to goal, heading, his touch, getting in the box.  There's so much to overcome to turn him into a good offensive player it's not going to happen.

That said defensively probably Gallagher is one of the best forwards in the Championship. He's an absolute animal tracking back on the wing, and that's what keeps him in the team.... But I am not really sure how long you can keep forwards in the team because the defend well. Reckon his days are numbered under JDT. He will be happy to sacrifice a bit of defensive athleticism for someone who offers a threat. With Sammie coming in can see it soon moving to BBD, Sammie, Dolan, Hedges as the front four with Gally on the bench.

[joey_big_nose]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Dack isn't a striker tho and Vale is a striker and that what the role was. Dack is number 10 and if we don't play a ten then he shouldn't be in the team. 

Swansea ownership and board wanted this philosophy like they did under Martinez and Rodgers, Cooper and the Swansea Ownership and hierarchy had a massive falling out over him and the signings Cooper wanted that they wouldn't fund.   

Can you explain why you would do that please? 

For me Dack is a striker really, especially since his ACLs. He might drop off and find a bit of space like Teddy Sheringham or Peter Beardsley used to, but he's far more like them than a proper midfielder who would carry and pass the ball centrally .

Even before ACL he was really more in a partnership with Graham up front than in the middle with Smallwood and Evans etc imo. And he has a strikers sort of scoring record too...

[tomphil]

As much as i'd like JPVH back here his form and attitude for most of last season means hes earned the right to have a go at it at Brighton imo.

Good luck to him and we'll have to move on at some point.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

For me Dack is a striker really, especially since his ACLs. He might drop off and find a bit of space like Teddy Sheringham or Peter Beardsley used to, but he's far more like them than a proper midfielder who would carry and pass the ball centrally .

Even before ACL he was really more in a partnership with Graham up front than in the middle with Smallwood and Evans etc imo. And he has a strikers sort of scoring record too...

I can understand what you are saying Joey but we will have to agree to disagree there. 

I don't think he is the type of striker that suits how JDT wants to play. A pressing forward would be better suit to JDT style of play if we lost BBD

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dack isn't a striker tho and Vale is a striker and that what the role was. Dack is number 10 and if we don't play a ten then he shouldn't be in the team. 

Swansea ownership and board wanted this philosophy like they did under Martinez and Rodgers, Cooper and the Swansea Ownership and hierarchy had a massive falling out over him and the signings Cooper wanted that they wouldn't fund.   

Can you explain why you would do that please? 

Vale struggled to get involved, so I am just saying not even specific to yesterday that Dack even as a sub could be a very useful tool to run down the clock.

Swansea an example of how an obsession over  "the right way of playing" and philosophies can be to the detriment of the club.

[rigger]

27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dack isn't a striker tho and Vale is a striker and that what the role was. Dack is number 10 and if we don't play a ten then he shouldn't be in the team. 

Swansea ownership and board wanted this philosophy like they did under Martinez and Rodgers, Cooper and the Swansea Ownership and hierarchy had a massive falling out over him and the signings Cooper wanted that they wouldn't fund.   

Can you explain why you would do that please? 

Because in my opinion, Phillips is already equal to JPVH, and in the future, Phillips will be better than JPVH.

[Iceman]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Russell Martin wants to play like Man City and be the Pep Guardiola of the championship which is fine with me but you got to deliver results and have a end product. I've seen a few people/pundits suggest they could be top 6 this season. I think they are way off that.  

So Russell Martin wants to be like Tony Mowbray?