v Bristol City (h) - 3/9/22

[47er]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

Even if that happened, I don’t think the club is set up for it. We’d get promoted and be Bournemouth’d every week. 

I actually think the ideology from GB is the one we should be taking. Improve each year, try to develop our own players so that we don’t need to buy a full team, try to “create value” (improve players, sell them, improve the team). 

The only rationale I can find for not selling BBD this window is because they thought it would be at such a detriment to the team it would put the “journey” under too much pressure. 

Grow the club--by strengthening links with the community ie the wider community, not just Blackburn, increase attendances by reducing prices---16000 at £x can bring in more than 12000 at £y, improve the "Ewood Experience", get more local sponsorship, Improve communication----there must be other suggestions.

Oh and get a CEO capable of doing all this and more.

[47er]

6 minutes ago, J*B said:

No, but I don’t understand that to be the plan. I think they hope to sell him for 20 million quid in 2.5 years and buy 2 or 3 quality players for the squad. 

Like with Armstrong?

[J*B]

2 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

We're 6 points above the relegation zone. 4 points if Boro win their game in hand. 

We'll be in the relegation zone in a matter of weeks if we carry on winning 1 game out of 5. 

Lots of complacency about, especially as we don't yet know if the manager is a total dud. 

You can’t just pick the bad results though. At the moment we’re 13 from 8. If that carries on across a season we will get 71 points. Just outside the top 6. 

For what it’s worth I think we will end up in the early 60 points - 60, 61, 62. And I think that would be a starting point to work from. 

[J*B]

1 minute ago, 47er said:

Like with Armstrong?

Armstrong was absolutely nothing to do with GB, to be fair. 

Although to be fair, we got 15M for him and that helped covered the cost of a global pandemic. As far as Waggott’s leadership, Armstrong is a major success point. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

6 minutes ago, J*B said:

You can’t just pick the bad results though. At the moment we’re 13 from 8. If that carries on across a season we will get 71 points. Just outside the top 6. 

For what it’s worth I think we will end up in the early 60 points - 60, 61, 62. And I think that would be a starting point to work from. 

Which is why I qualified it with 'if we carry on winning 1 game out of 5'. 

I hope you're right about the points total...I just have a horrible feeling JDT might not be all that. 

[Hasta]

28 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

This season i feel will be case of 1 win, 3 losses then a draw…I’m happy with that & waiting to see who comes in on the next few windows.

That’s 4 points every 5 games. That equates to 37 points over the course of the season. Relegation form. And your happy with that? 😯

[CambridgeRover]

Look at Travis for that first goal. He sees the man he should mark and doesn't do it. Doesn't matter what position you play, you see the man you mark him. Unfortunately for us I think Lewis Travis is literally a walking moron. Richie Smallwood with a bit more bite. 

[Hasta]

16 minutes ago, J*B said:

You can’t just pick the bad results though. At the moment we’re 13 from 8. If that carries on across a season we will get 71 points. Just outside the top 6. 

For what it’s worth I think we will end up in the early 60 points - 60, 61, 62. And I think that would be a starting point to work from. 

I’d be accepting of 60+ points as a basis to work on. I’d only be happy with top 6.

The ‘project’ is ultimately controlled by Venkys and Waggot. As much as JDT can say we are at the start of his journey, the fans are 12 years into the Venky ‘project’ and almost 5 years into Waggot being onboard.  

Edited September 4, 2022 by Hasta

[BankEnd Rover]

22 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Incredible. See you at Morecambe next season in League 1.

O behave… I think you get my point. We outplayed Blackpool 4 days ago, & the same happened to us yesterday. “o but blackpool are a terrible team”… they beat QPR at their place a few weeks back.

It’s the championship! 

[BankEnd Rover]

10 minutes ago, CambridgeRover said:

Look at Travis for that first goal. He sees the man he should mark and doesn't do it. Doesn't matter what position you play, you see the man you mark him. Unfortunately for us I think Lewis Travis is literally a walking moron. Richie Smallwood with a bit more bite. 

I put this point across yesterday. He’s at much a fault as for when we gave the ball away in the first place…For a defensive midfielder, he has to do better. 

[BankEnd Rover]

13 minutes ago, Hasta said:

That’s 4 points every 5 games. That equates to 37 points over the course of the season. Relegation form. And your happy with that? 😯

Sorry my point is we will be up & down all season with results going not the way we expect.

My worry is how many goals we’ve shipped…Hopefully with players back that will ease.

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, Hasta said:

The ‘project’ is ultimately controlled by Venkys and Waggot. As much as JDT can say we are at the start of his journey, the fans are 12 years into the Venky ‘project’ and almost 5 years into Waggot being onboard.

Did you not see this as new start under a new footballing structure and the new staff has been in place for around 2 months. We have brought in a new Director of Football, new head coach and new head of recruitment, surely these require patience and time from the fans? 

 

[Hasta]

4 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Sorry my point is we will be up & down all season with results going not the way we expect.

My worry is how many goals we’ve shipped…Hopefully with players back that will ease.

Under Mowbray we complained about unbeaten runs followed by death spirals. I think we are literally going to be Jekyll and Hyde every week till JDT can get a better handle on things. I feel we will be the kind of team that could easily beat Lose at Wigan then somehow turn it on to beat Watford. 
 

What worried me more yesterday was the tippy tippy, don’t launch it strategy that we were still employing in the 87th minute when it clearly wasn’t going to work. 

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Hasta said:

What worried me more yesterday was the tippy tippy, don’t launch it strategy that we were still employing in the 87th minute when it clearly wasn’t going to work. 

was launch it going to work against 3 big centre back? the way was getting between the lines and between their centre backs with clever runs and movement. 

[BankEnd Rover]

12 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Under Mowbray we complained about unbeaten runs followed by death spirals. I think we are literally going to be Jekyll and Hyde every week till JDT can get a better handle on things. I feel we will be the kind of team that could easily beat Lose at Wigan then somehow turn it on to beat Watford. 
 

What worried me more yesterday was the tippy tippy, don’t launch it strategy that we were still employing in the 87th minute when it clearly wasn’t going to work. 

That’s exactly how it will go….I like the idea of JDTs style of play but we are going to need a lot more quality if that’s going to happen. I’m sure Gregg will see this as the season goes on.

Dont get me wrong if we don’t pluck out wins then questions will need to be asked. But if we pull performances like Blackpool now & again then it shows that it COULD work. 
 

Next week I worry because Wigan have experience and toughness in their team. Something we lack. Max power is going to have a field day against Morton or Wharton. We need Travis in the middle or we loose IMO.

Edited September 4, 2022 by BankEnd Rover

[Hasta]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Did you not see this as new start under a new footballing structure and the new staff has been in place for around 2 months. We have brought in a new Director of Football, new head coach and new head of recruitment, surely these require patience and time from the fans? 

 

They’ll get time and patience from the fans unless it starts going seriously backward. Most people do at Ewood.

 The previous TM ‘project’ failed so spectacularly when you think about it. Waggot should have sacked Mowbray at least 12 months earlier which may have not put us in the situation of losing the 3 we lost over the summer, and the impending Brereton situation. It’s like everything we tried to build just came apart at the end with those people able to leave for free and it has put us severely backward.

@J*Bis touting the opinion we should have sold BB and invested in the rebuild. JDT more or less said come and get him after the Blackpool game. Now as a fan who just want to see us win games I’m happy he is still here. But who put the value on him I wonder? If GB said £20 million or he’s not going then fine. In his role that’s his prerogative. But if Venkys set the value as we are led to believe from certain sources including Alan Myers, and GB has no say in whether we should accept lower, then ultimately Venkys  ‘project’ will outrank GB and JDT’s.

What I will judge the current footballing leaders on is their transfers, and at the moment I’m not convinced.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

No, but I don’t understand that to be the plan. I think they hope to sell him for 20 million quid in 2.5 years and buy 2 or 3 quality players for the squad. 

I don't have a clue how you can have come to the conclusion that Venkys will act like rational owners sticking to a plan.

We have just decided to allow Brereton to run his contract down because of a stubborn need to hit a price tag, the manager was undermined in January when Rothwell could have been sold. There is a history of assets sold under Venkys and the money isn't reinvested. Why will it suddenly change?

Also, why are expectations so low for this season? I get that we have a new manager but going from 8th to the bottom half is ok? Not at all aiming for the top 6 is fine, just to right off the season and even next season?

[Hasta]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

was launch it going to work against 3 big centre back? the way was getting between the lines and between their centre backs with clever runs and movement. 

It should have gone back to front into feet a lot quicker. Nobody took the responsibility to move it forward. Brereton should have been central from the start of the second half as he was completely ineffective so wide.

Changing the personnel but doing the same think was very poor from those on touchline. Hopefully when they realise the quality and the strengths of the players they are working with they will learn?

Edited September 4, 2022 by Hasta

[JHRover]

The 'beauty' of the new system with a Director of Football is that in the event JDT does turn out to be a dud then we can quickly and easily make a change without ripping everything up and starting afresh.

I hope he does well, and he deserves a fraction of the unlimited time and opportunity Mowbray was given, but there are no guarantees and the club has to be ready and willing to act if needed.

That's the Championship. Some appointments work out well, others don't. If JDT doesn't that isn't evidence Mowbray should have been retained. I see some of the Mowbray acolytes are on twitter today reminiscing of the good old Mowbray days. Short memories given the horrific results and embarrassing behaviour Mowbray delivered after January.

[Exiled_Rover]

10 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Let's see. You agree with my premise that they have a bit about them. In a lot of ways they are the opposite of Rovers; big, settled, well drilled, with a proven manager. 

In a league where any one can beat anyone what Bristol City have is enviable.

We scored twice against them and, bar a few last ditch tackles / unlucky ricochets, could have scored many more.

They're a good, solid, mid-table Championship side. I aspire to be better - or at least more entertaining (I thought they were dull af to watch). 

[Exiled_Rover]

25 minutes ago, Hasta said:

It should have gone back to front into feet a lot quicker. Nobody took the responsibility to move it forward. Brereton should have been central from the start of the second half as he was completely ineffective so wide.

Changing the personnel but doing the same think was very poor from those on touchline. Hopefully when they realise the quality and the strengths of the players they are working with they will learn?

This obsession with playing Brereton central is weird.

Every time he's played there he's been bullied by big Championship CBs. His best attributes are his workrate and his ability to carry the ball - ignore the fact that he's 6'3" and looks like he could handle the rough stuff. He can't. 

He's scored 4 in 8 drifting in from the left - he's incredibly difficult to pick up from that position and it works for him. The hope is that Hirst grabs the opportunity to play #9 with both hands and provides our attack with more bite. 

[bazza]

The back line was set up wrongly. Personnel should have been Philips, Carter, Hyam, Pickering or swap Carter and Philips. Then Travis could have played DM.

Adam Wharton was put right off his game after he lost the ball, did a reckless lunge to try and retrieve it and got booked. He was reluctant to tackle after that in case he got sent off.

BBD had a stinker. Hedges had turned his ankle in the warm-ups so played poorly.

Hirst looked very good but other players weren't on his wavelength. He was taken off knackered.

We can't keep playing as badly as this. I just hope we can improve megamuch at Wigan. 

 

[Hasta]

2 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

This obsession with playing Brereton central is weird.

Every time he's played there he's been bullied by big Championship CBs. His best attributes are his workrate and his ability to carry the ball - ignore the fact that he's 6'3" and looks like he could handle the rough stuff. He can't. 

He's scored 4 in 8 drifting in from the left - he's incredibly difficult to pick up from that position and it works for him. The hope is that Hirst grabs the opportunity to play #9 with both hands and provides our attack with more bite. 

I don’t disagree. But after 70 minutes when we are 2-0 down and he has hardly had a kick, and those playing through the centre have done nothing either, surely it’s worth taking a chance and changing it. 

[USABlue]

It should have sunk in to JDT by now he does not have the players to olay his way.  He needs to figure out a different style until he does.  Can he?  Dunno.  Hoping so 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Hasta said:

They’ll get time and patience from the fans unless it starts going seriously backward. Most people do at Ewood.

 The previous TM ‘project’ failed so spectacularly when you think about it. Waggot should have sacked Mowbray at least 12 months earlier which may have not put us in the situation of losing the 3 we lost over the summer, and the impending Brereton situation. It’s like everything we tried to build just came apart at the end with those people able to leave for free and it has put us severely backward.

@J*Bis touting the opinion we should have sold BB and invested in the rebuild. JDT more or less said come and get him after the Blackpool game. Now as a fan who just want to see us win games I’m happy he is still here. But who put the value on him I wonder? If GB said £20 million or he’s not going then fine. In his role that’s his prerogative. But if Venkys set the value as we are led to believe from certain sources including Alan Myers, and GB has no say in whether we should accept lower, then ultimately Venkys  ‘project’ will outrank GB and JDT’s.

What I will judge the current footballing leaders on is their transfers, and at the moment I’m not convinced.

I hope they do get time and patience from all sections of fans. Fans need to understand what the project is and how we want to move forward on the subject. 

I would think that valuations are done by our footballing staff and our CEO/Pasha. If you listened to JDT, he thought he was worth much more 20 million pounds. I would imagine that GB, JDT, SP and SW all speak to Venkys and give their opinions. I think some clubs who actually bid for BBD don't understand how our owners operate tbh. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't have a clue how you can have come to the conclusion that Venkys will act like rational owners sticking to a plan.

We have just decided to allow Brereton to run his contract down because of a stubborn need to hit a price tag, the manager was undermined in January when Rothwell could have been sold. There is a history of assets sold under Venkys and the money isn't reinvested. Why will it suddenly change?

Would you have sold for the offers we received from Nice or Sevilla that was low as 8.4 million? 

Would you have sold him on the day with very little for a replacement and teams coming in so late even after scouting him for weeks? 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Also, why are expectations so low for this season? I get that we have a new manager but going from 8th to the bottom half is ok? Not at all aiming for the top 6 is fine, just to right off the season and even next season?

Cos it's work in progress with this period being a transition season to new tactics, new players being part and new head coach who hasn't managed here before. As GB and JDT this is project, and the same message has come from our head coach every time whether we won or lose. 

I think we will finish in top 10 this season which I would be happy with in JDT's first season

 

2 hours ago, Hasta said:

It should have gone back to front into feet a lot quicker. Nobody took the responsibility to move it forward. Brereton should have been central from the start of the second half as he was completely ineffective so wide.

Changing the personnel but doing the same think was very poor from those on touchline. Hopefully when they realise the quality and the strengths of the players they are working with they will learn?

Yes the tempo was too slow in our play, and I made that point last night in my summary. 

Brereton's strength is playing from the left and using movement inside from left to right or shooting after coming inside. 

How would you have set up and who would have gone left?