v Luton Town (a) - 17/9/22

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, Upside Down said:

I think people are upset because we haven't just lost games, we've been totally bummed by teams we should have the potential to beat.

Or even just have a few decent shots on target.

I'm not that hard to please.

[Oldgregg86]

I think the journey and project talks has been tainted by tony

Mowbray was boring us to death five years in banging on about journeys when it was blatantly clear we where winging it and going nowhere with different styles of play, baffling tactics and all the other stuff everyone knows . 
 

Let me repeat five years , JDT has started his journey/project and is five months in. He should have time and patients to implement his ideas and see where it takes us . 
 

i think new phase is probably more apt description than journey and it won’t take five years to figure out if he’s a BS or not. I’m enjoying this new phase and it will take time to come together 

I have often stated I watched the Pep years live every week and it looked a little like this, brilliant, disjointed , confusing, error strewn but over the months it came together slowly. 

JDT deserve that patience to get it right and some trial and error is inevitable. I’ve seen enough in the Blackpool and Watford games to believe it will come together 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Oldgregg86

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Managers with less money can develop a recognisable style quickly. The lower league show you that. 

JDT isn't re-inventing the wheel FFS. 

And I haven't written him off, just sharing my own views on him at this stage. 

You are making valid arguement, touching nerves and the MDL don't like that.

It's all about the Journey, Project, Fairytale of passing along the backline into embarrassing trouble on a remarkably consistent basis.

[Atko's Engine]

I stand by my beliefs and am not missing any point in the argument. To be frank, I'm astounded that this is controversial in some people's eyes.

I said I was generally content with the start made in the context of where we were when GB & JDT arrived. We've had games (like Blackpool, QPR, Watford), where we've dominated & looked great, other games like today, Reading & Sheff Utd where we've looked the opposite. 

We can't ignore the context. We were told project, 3 to 4 windows, build a platform for a sustainable PL club; where we are now is a club in transition, exactly as was said on the tin. The starting point was a decimated squad missing half an 8th placed team, where 4 or 5 academy players have since made their first team debuts in a dozen games, and 4 players arrived in the last week if the transfer window (6 league games into the season) because we had no head coach until mid June, no DoF until 2 weeks earlier &  a head of recruitment who's only just joined! 

Against Watford, Blackpool, QPR & W Brom we've seen a lot of good football, pressing, 1 & 2 touch passing. I believe that's what he wants to develop, but it'll take time to get a young, still small squad to be able to adopt a consistent version of that, especially when it's 2 games a week.

 

[bluebruce]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

From the first 10 games, it has been a lot of needless slow, boring passing across the back when we have it but ultimately we dont dominate possession because we have regular spells where we barely have a kick.

Today we had 61% possession, lost 2-0. Bristol 63%, lost. Stoke 71%, lost. Reading 65%, lost 3-0. Dominating possession, but it's the wrong kind and we can't play it well just like recent previous seasons. Sheff U is the only defeat where we had less possession (44%).

We beat QPR with 49%, Swansea 3-0 with just 29%, WBA with 40%, Watford with 46% and Blackpool with 55%. We did have wins with high possession (74% and 68%) in the cup but against inferior lower league opposition.

A very strong pattern that matches with previous seasons, in fact so far it exceeds them. I'd suggest we're still a stronger counter attack side than possession-based.

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

I stand by my beliefs and am not missing any point in the argument. To be frank, I'm astounded that this is controversial in some people's eyes.

I said I was generally content with the start made in the context of where we were when GB & JDT arrived. We've had games (like Blackpool, QPR, Watford), where we've dominated & looked great, other games like today, Reading & Sheff Utd where we've looked the opposite. 

We can't ignore the context. We were told project, 3 to 4 windows, build a platform for a sustainable PL club; where we are now is a club in transition, exactly as was said on the tin. The starting point was a decimated squad missing half an 8th placed team, where 4 or 5 academy players have since made their first team debuts in a dozen games, and 4 players arrived in the last week if the transfer window (6 league games into the season) because we had no head coach until mid June, no DoF until 2 weeks earlier &  a head of recruitment who's only just joined! 

Against Watford, Blackpool, QPR & W Brom we've seen a lot of good football, pressing, 1 & 2 touch passing. I believe that's what he wants to develop, but it'll take time to get a young, still small squad to be able to adopt a consistent version of that, especially when it's 2 games a week.

 

I dont that that style was on show during those games really. V QPR we scored early and managed the game without creating chances. Against West Brom it was heart more than anything that got us over the line and even at Blackpool it was similar.

All the soundbites about journeys may have relevance but equally the style we seem under the impression that Tomasson wants to play hasnt really been evident on the pitch at all yet, and the Watford game to me is the outlier. We have also been umcompetitive too often.

The buzzword now seems to be inconsistency but I think the level of our performance has been consistently quite poor. It is a results game and we have a reasonable tally but I have misgivings about how we have played and whether it will continue to earn points at the current rate without changes.

[arbitro]

9 hours ago, BG1492 said:

People moaned how dinosaur Tony never took us anywhere in 5 years. But are now expecting JDT to sort the mess out in 5 months.

Give the bloke time, look where Farke finished with Norwich in his first season.

”Good managers get good results now” see Chris Wilder that everyone was shouting for in February..

I haven't read all the posts but the ones I have read nobody is writing him off. The criticism he has had is valid don't you think. In fact in some of his interviews he has alluded to the same things himself. He's a big boy doing a job in the public eye and criticism is part of it.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

4 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Today we had 61% possession, lost 2-0. Bristol 63%, lost. Stoke 71%, lost. Reading 65%, lost 3-0. Dominating possession, but it's the wrong kind and we can't play it well just like recent previous seasons. Sheff U is the only defeat where we had less possession (44%).

We beat QPR with 49%, Swansea 3-0 with just 29%, WBA with 40%, Watford with 46% and Blackpool with 55%. We did have wins with high possession (74% and 68%) in the cup but against inferior lower league opposition.

A very strong pattern that matches with previous seasons, in fact so far it exceeds them. I'd suggest we're still a stronger counter attack side than possession-based.

IMO possession stats for a whole match are very misleading. Virtually every team in the Championship when ahead sits back, let's the opposition have the ball and tries to hit them on the transition (or on the break in old money terms). This leads to some misleading possession stats.

[M_B]

7 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

I stand by my beliefs and am not missing any point in the argument. To be frank, I'm astounded that this is controversial in some people's eyes.

I said I was generally content with the start made in the context of where we were when GB & JDT arrived. We've had games (like Blackpool, QPR, Watford), where we've dominated & looked great, other games like today, Reading & Sheff Utd where we've looked the opposite. 

We can't ignore the context. We were told project, 3 to 4 windows, build a platform for a sustainable PL club; where we are now is a club in transition, exactly as was said on the tin. The starting point was a decimated squad missing half an 8th placed team, where 4 or 5 academy players have since made their first team debuts in a dozen games, and 4 players arrived in the last week if the transfer window (6 league games into the season) because we had no head coach until mid June, no DoF until 2 weeks earlier &  a head of recruitment who's only just joined! 

Against Watford, Blackpool, QPR & W Brom we've seen a lot of good football, pressing, 1 & 2 touch passing. I believe that's what he wants to develop, but it'll take time to get a young, still small squad to be able to adopt a consistent version of that, especially when it's 2 games a week.

 

A manager with a "decimated" squad doesn't leave out his most expensive signing for two games when fit,and prioritise England u19's over a league match at Luton. 

Let's have it right, the squad is there as shown on Tuesday, he's having to leave supposedly important players out of the squad, never mind the team. 

He's got the players at his disposal, nobody expects miracles and joint 5th is a more than creditable start, but the decimated squad argument needs leaving behind, it's been disproved already. 

[Nuttall is lost]

Wasn't one bit surprised by this defeat.  See it time and again.  Good performance and win followed by 2-3 defeats then another good performance. 

 

[arbitro]

20 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

IMO possession stats for a whole match are very misleading. Virtually every team in the Championship when ahead sits back, let's the opposition have the ball and tries to hit them on the transition (or on the break in old money terms). This leads to some misleading possession stats.

The frustration is that we haven't shown any ways of playing against teams who are happy to let us have the ball in non threatening areas. I'm not a big believer in stats as they can be misleading but in this instance I think there is something in them borne out by bluebruce's research. It's up to Tomasson to come up with a way of playing to overcome this deficiency.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, Nuttall is lost said:

Wasn't one bit surprised by this defeat.  See it time and again.  Good performance and win followed by 2-3 defeats then another good performance. 

 

Until the mentality at the Club changes that’ll always be the case. Changing the mentality at the club demands a change of ownership to a more hands on, visible, proactive ownership. So round and round we go.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

The frustration is that we haven't shown any ways of playing against teams who are happy to let us have the ball in non threatening areas. I'm not a big believer in stats as they can be misleading but in this instance I think there is something in them borne out by bluebruce's research. It's up to Tomasson to come up with a way of playing to overcome this deficiency.

All I know is passing it for passings sake isn’t the way.

[Herbie6590]

https://brfcs.com/magazine/football/match/880842/luton-blackburn?tab=voting

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

All I know is passing it for passings sake isn’t the way.

Which Tomasson referred to as the Dutch Disease.

[Herbie6590]

19 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

One you missed - our flying winger of the sixties - Mike Harrison.

Now added…👍🏻 

[Ossydave]

Annoying but half expected I guess...

It's hard to understand how the same team goes from the midweek performance to yesterday's in a matter of days, against (on paper anyway) a much weaker team.

It's pretty much what every team in the division seems to be doing at present though apart from Sheff Utd. I think we're gonna have a few more months of it too I'm afraid till it settles down!

Only positive I can take really is I had to turn down the offer of a ticket so didn't have to endure the journey home.

[Mercer]

19 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

One you missed - our flying winger of the sixties - Mike Harrison.

Shame Harrison didn't have the 'hardness' or aggression of Mike 'Fergie' otherwise he'd have been a world beater. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Shame Harrison didn't have the 'hardness' or aggression of Mike 'Fergie' otherwise he'd have been a world beater. 

Yes you’re right. For a guy built like a light heavyweight boxer he wasn’t fond of the rough stuff. Lots of right backs tried to intimidate him and some succeeded.
 

I remember going over to Ewood in the school holidays for autographs. When me and my pal got there we were invited in to watch a full scale practice match. First team attack plus reserve team defence against first team defence plus reserve team attack. John Bray was marking Mike and he was giving him a bit of stick even in a practice match. Mike was complaining all the time to Jack Marshall who was refereeing !

Mike was devastating against opponents who tried to cut out the rough stuff. Really fast and direct with a tremendous shot in both feet. Like a very quick, taller, Mark Hughes without the aggression.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

Good morning, everyone, I have seen highlights of the game, we created 2 very good chances and BBD done well but I do wonder if Dolan should hit it first time when he comes to him after the clearance went to him. Hirst should have done better but he got into that position, and I see that has encouraging. On the 2 goals we conceded, the first goal Dolan should do better against Bell, Hyam should stop the cross or better effort and Ayala should do alot better against Morris. On the second goal, I would like to know where our 2 centre midfielders were cos one of them should be closing that down. I still would have like Scott Wharton to come it down must quickly that he did. 

I have read comments about us playing it pointless around on the back, my opinion is we are doing this cos we are lacking available passes or runs in front of them, so they keep the ball and pass it between them. We need move movement in front so they can pass it from there much quickly, runners in behind the back 4. I would like to Buckley restore to the line-up and give us that passing midfielder in the midfield position, and I would also move back to playing 4-2-3-1 formation (which I prefer myself seeing us playing) for the next game against Millwall.

People said why didn't Dack come on in the second, but where would you play in the front 3 given we are we playing 3-4-3? Would people had took off a centre back for him and change to 4-2-3-1 formation? or play him on the right of the front 3 in place of Hedges? or just not bring him on at all? 

I've seen some people's comments on here saying they cannot see how JDT wants to play and style of play. I would say really? Look at the games like QPR home, WBA home, Blackpool away, Stoke home and Watford home you can see clearly how he wants to play with one touch passing, movement, pressing high, etc. This is new style to alot of the players so clearly taking time for them taking it on board and learning it. Rovers and JDT need more time on the training pitch to keep working and developing these principles of play as JDT say it. This required time and patience from everyone. If you had said to me a day before the start of the season Rovers would be 7th after 10 games considering the overhaul in staff including players, coaching staff and other backroom staff including a new footballing structure of Director of Football and Head coach then I would say we are good shape and plenty of positives to look forward and work on in the future.  I would also add look at Farke first season at Norwich when they were in consistence performance and results wise but the next season, they were brilliant when the players and team understand how he wanted them to play and the playing style and formation. 

Yes, they are some negatives at the minute like consistency problem of performance and if we conceded first, we don't look like back into the game apart from Bristol City game. My main is not being to get into games after conceding first. Hopefully in the 2 weeks we can work on this in training and work on it mentality aswell. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by chaddyrovers

[Mercer]

12 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes you’re right. For a guy built like a light heavyweight boxer he wasn’t fond of the rough stuff. Lots of right backs tried to intimidate him and some succeeded.
 

I remember going over to Ewood in the school holidays for autographs. When me and my pal got there we were invited in to watch a full scale practice match. First team attack plus reserve team defence against first team defence plus reserve team attack. John Bray was marking Mike and he was giving him a bit of stick even in a practice match. Mike was complaining all the time to Jack Marshall who was refereeing !

Mike was devastating against opponents who tried to cut out the rough stuff. Really fast and direct with a tremendous shot in both feet. Like a very quick, taller, Mark Hughes without the aggression.

Helluva a penalty taker as well!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Good morning, everyone, I have seen highlights of the game, we created 2 very good chances and BBD done well but I do wonder if Dolan should hit it first time when he comes to him after the clearance went to him. Hirst should have done better but he got into that position, and I see that has encouraging. On the 2 goals we conceded, the first goal Dolan should do better against Bell, Hyam should stop the cross or better effort and Ayala should do alot better against Morris. On the second goal, I would like to know where our 2 centre midfielders were cos one of them should be closing that down. I still would have like Scott Wharton to come it down must quickly that he did. 

I have read comments about us playing it pointless around on the back, my opinion is we are doing this cos we are lacking available passes or runs in front of them, so they keep the ball and pass it between them. We need move movement in front so they can pass it from there much quickly, runners in behind the back 4. I would like to Buckley restore to the line-up and give us that passing midfielder in the midfield position, and I would also move back to playing 4-2-3-1 formation (which I prefer myself seeing us playing) for the next game against Millwall.

I've seen some people's comments on here saying they cannot see how JDT wants to play and style of play. I would say really? Look at the games like QPR home, WBA home, Blackpool away, Stoke home and Watford home you can see clearly how he wants to play with one touch passing, movement, pressing high, etc. This is new style to alot of the players so clearly taking time for them taking it on board and learning it. Rovers and JDT need more time on the training pitch to keep working and developing these principles of play as JDT say it. This required time and patience from everyone. If you had said to me a day before the start of the season Rovers would be 7th after 10 games considering the overhaul in staff including players, coaching staff and other backroom staff including a new footballing structure of Director of Football and Head coach then I would say we are good shape and plenty of positives to look forward and work on in the future. 

Yes, they are some negatives at the minute like consistency problem of performance and if we conceded first, we don't look like back into the game apart from Bristol City game. My main is not being to get into games after conceding first. Hopefully in the 2 weeks we can work on this in training and work on it mentality aswell. 

You’re right about movement being the key to a successful passing team. I can always tell when Rovers are going to play well. We’re passing to players that are on the move. Once we start passing to players that are stood still we’re going nowhere. The trouble with five at the back if the team isn’t on song is that half of the team are not in a great position to get moving forward.

Same with my rugby league team. Once they start taking the ball stood still it’s going to be a long afternoon.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Helluva a penalty taker as well!

Possibly the best for Rovers in my time.

[Upside Down]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Possibly the best for Rovers in my time.

Better than Shearer? Really?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Upside Down said:

Better than Shearer? Really?

He could side foot the shot, obviously with a more accurate technique, as hard as Shearer putting the laces through it. Ask anybody who saw him take one. I don’t recall him ever missing.