v Luton Town (a) - 17/9/22

[HowieFive0]

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, HowieFive0 said:

Dack liking tweets like this isn't going to impress Rovers management and JDT one bit. Rovers's media team will inform the management of this incident. 

Dack has to earn his place through training very well and performing in games. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dack liking tweets like this isn't going to impress Rovers management and JDT one bit. Rovers's media team will inform the management of this incident. 

Dack has to earn his place through training very well and performing in games. 

You can’t perform in games when you’re always sat on the bench. Having said that liking tweets isn’t the right way to go about things.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

We were crying out for some link up play yesterday and we were surprised that Dack didn't get on. We were pretty much second best in midfield yesterday as the had an extra man and again we were surprised Tomasson didn't address this by matching them up.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, arbitro said:

We were crying out for some link up play yesterday and we were surprised that Dack didn't get on. We were pretty much second best in midfield yesterday as the had an extra man and again we were surprised Tomasson didn't address this by matching them up.

It’s obvious isn’t it. 3 grafters will always overcome a 2 unless the 2 are worldbeaters and our 2 aren’t. It’s things like that that worry me. JDT must know that.

[AllRoverAsia]

I do believe that even Mowbray would have brought Dack.

The current one struggles with logic.

[jim mk2]

28 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Possibly the best for Rovers in my time.

Yes agree. Marshall’s misfit’s. A beautiful and talented team

On the pointless passing debate you have to say Nathan Jones spotted this in the first half and told his team just to press Rovers higher up and the mistakes would come

The big lump Morris, who looked like a non league player in the first half, was more aggressive and our nice boys just wilted under the pressure

We are so easy to play against and beat I don’t know why all managers don’t do the same

[tomphil]

Dack is going to end up at Sunderland in Jan if they are not careful and that's a major bollock dropped.

Unless they get 5 mill for him of course but Szmodics signed for two million and Dack being edged out makes no sense whatsoever.

[Atko's Engine]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

I haven't read all the posts but the ones I have read nobody is writing him off. The criticism he has had is valid don't you think. In fact in some of his interviews he has alluded to the same things himself. He's a big boy doing a job in the public eye and criticism is part of it.

Absolutely; constructive criticism is valid & welcome, the more the better,. But let's do it in context & be even-handed about the ups & the downs.  I agree that we don't know yet if JDT is a good manager / head coach. Even if he is, good managers don't a achieve success at every club.

My disagreement was with Sweaty Gussets, who said that JDT has had enough time to get his ideas across to the players, is in the same boat as any other manager, and therefore needs to change his coaching methods as they're clearly not working. 

I think that's plain wrong on all counts.

Chalk & cheese performances is exactly what you'd expect of a young, newly assembled squad under an entirely new coaching staff that has barely had a free week to focus on training without game prep (which I agree is the same for all managers, but not all started the season as far behind as we were, yet we're still 7th or joint 5th as someone else referred to it (who must wear even stronger rose-coloured glasses than me!)) 😉

[Herbie6590]

https://www.brfcs.com/magazine/articles/500-words-after-luton-town/293

[Upside Down]

The lads need to start having a teaspoon of cement in their morning brew so they can harden the fuck up.

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, M_B said:

A manager with a "decimated" squad doesn't leave out his most expensive signing for two games when fit,and prioritise England u19's over a league match at Luton. 

Let's have it right, the squad is there as shown on Tuesday, he's having to leave supposedly important players out of the squad, never mind the team. 

He's got the players at his disposal, nobody expects miracles and joint 5th is a more than creditable start, but the decimated squad argument needs leaving behind, it's been disproved already. 

Is that what JDT did though? Do we know 100% that Szmodics is 100% after his concussion 2 weeks ago? Do we know that his reason for not including 18 y/o Wharton was to ensure he was fit for England? I think (and stand to be corrected) that's just suspicion or conjecture; they could also be decisions purely with the players' own welfare in mind.  

For the majority of the 10 games played in the league we've had a decimated, stretched squad where we've had LBs at CB, midfielders at RB, a 17yr old at CB & an 18 year old at CM. several 18 yr old academy players have made their debuts out of necessity rather than choice. There can be no argument there surely, albeit I agree that's not the reason we lost & played poorly yesterday.

Joint 5th as you put it is a more than acceptable start IMO, with some good performances mixed in with some poor ones. Time & patience is key.

[Gav]

Some posters are going way over the top, I get the felling some of you thought getting rid of Mowbray was the only thing between us and promotion....

The squad is weaker than last season, the managerial team are new, the formation and style of player is different and everyone needs to calm down and give the manager and his staff time to bed in.

This season is a write off already for me, the Sheff Utd game set the bar and we are miles away from being candidates for the mix up come May, if we manage a mid-table finish I'd be overjoyed to be honest.

Can I just add that the 800 Rovers fans that made that trip yesterday deserve nothing by credit, its tough times out there right now and that support was tremendous, despite the poor result. 

Onwards and upwards.

[Hasta]

48 minutes ago, arbitro said:

We were crying out for some link up play yesterday and we were surprised that Dack didn't get on. We were pretty much second best in midfield yesterday as the had an extra man and again we were surprised Tomasson didn't address this by matching them up.

Its obviously JDT doesn't fancy Dack. A good performance and great assist against Blackpool is now largely forgotten. What worries me is the insistence to play out from the back requires a certain style of player. Brittain looks like he may fit into this mould, but I've not seen much in Szmodics and HIrst yet to think they are the quality of player who can implement championship tikka takka. Dack and Buckley do fit into this mould, but were benched.  

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

Better than Shearer? Really?

I can't recall Harrison ever missing a penalty!

This guy had everything other than mental toughness.  He debuted at just 16 for Chelsea and I think he averaged about 1 goal every 4 games for Rovers and for a winger that's a great return.

Luton fans loved him when he went there and he was seen as a catalyst in their promotion from the old 3rd Division (now League 1).  Sadly, he suffered from numerous thigh problems in his latter career, unsurprising given those huge muscular thighs, and his career just petered out.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Mercer

[Hasta]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Some posters are going way over the top, I get the felling some of you thought getting rid of Mowbray was the only thing between us and promotion....

The squad is weaker than last season, the managerial team are new, the formation and style of player is different and everyone needs to calm down and give the manager and his staff time to bed in.

This season is a write off already for me, the Sheff Utd game set the bar and we are miles away from being candidates for the mix up come May, if we manage a mid-table finish I'd be overjoyed to be honest.

I was frustrated as hell yesterday. It's not because we lost. Your second sentence is bang on.

What frustrated and worries me is the fact we are playing the same way in the 89th minute as we were in the 5th minute and it simply wasn't working. In fact it was completely detrimental to us the number of times we gave the ball away in our own final 3rd.

Regardless of long term visions and projects, you would hope a manager would be able to say to Kaminsky stop trying to play it out short. It's simply not working and putting us under pressure.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Hasta

[Sweaty Gussets]

32 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Absolutely; constructive criticism is valid & welcome, the more the better,. But let's do it in context & be even-handed about the ups & the downs.  I agree that we don't know yet if JDT is a good manager / head coach. Even if he is, good managers don't a achieve success at every club.

My disagreement was with Sweaty Gussets, who said that JDT has had enough time to get his ideas across to the players, is in the same boat as any other manager, and therefore needs to change his coaching methods as they're clearly not working. 

I think that's plain wrong on all counts.

Chalk & cheese performances is exactly what you'd expect of a young, newly assembled squad under an entirely new coaching staff that has barely had a free week to focus on training without game prep (which I agree is the same for all managers, but not all started the season as far behind as we were, yet we're still 7th or joint 5th as someone else referred to it (who must wear even stronger rose-coloured glasses than me!)) 😉

You've referenced me so I'll respond. Hopefully you won't report me.

My criticism is even handed and within context thanks (not that you're the judge of even-handedness or context on here!)

Kompany has been here exactly the same amount of time as JDT. He's changed from Dyche-ball to a possession-based game. There is a fundamental change in style at Burnley and a massive turnover of players, a far' bigger change on both counts than has happened at Rovers. These are undeniable facts, so repeatedly saying I'm 'plain wrong' is not a valid argument. 

The change in performance/style from Mowbray to JDT is barely noticeable.

Oh, and our coaching staff are not 'entirely new'. Now that is 'plain wrong'!

[unleaded]

The fast tracking of Hirst over Dack and Markanday & Szmodics is poor from JDT …. It’s obvious he has favourites and am not liking it …..Dack has waited for his chance but when he sees Hirst coming on instead of him that must hurt …. 

[LDRover]

22 minutes ago, unleaded said:

The fast tracking of Hirst over Dack and Markanday & Szmodics is poor from JDT …. It’s obvious he has favourites and am not liking it …..Dack has waited for his chance but when he sees Hirst coming on instead of him that must hurt …. 

Dack is still our best footballer so to be completely ignored in a pitiful performance yesterday is just plain wrong from JDT. There's also the argument that bringing Hirst on in a performance where we were hardly creating is going to do nothing for his confidence either.

So I conclude the same as you, he definitely doesn't fancy Dack or Markanday and I'm not sure he fancies Smodiczs either yet one we know is a game changer and the other 2 have hardly played to know either way.

[Atko's Engine]

53 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

You've referenced me so I'll respond. Hopefully you won't report me.

My criticism is even handed and within context thanks (not that you're the judge of even-handedness or context on here!)

Kompany has been here exactly the same amount of time as JDT. He's changed from Dyche-ball to a possession-based game. There is a fundamental change in style at Burnley and a massive turnover of players, a far' bigger change on both counts than has happened at Rovers. These are undeniable facts, so repeatedly saying I'm 'plain wrong' is not a valid argument. 

The change in performance/style from Mowbray to JDT is barely noticeable.

Oh, and our coaching staff are not 'entirely new'. Now that is 'plain wrong'!

Why would I report you for replying if I referenced you directly? I've never reported anyone, let alone someone who engages in constructive discussion!

The only thing that is similar between Kompany & Tomassen is the approx date they took control of their respective clubs. Even then Kompany came into a club with loads of money to pick & choose his targets, whereas we've had to rely as much on bringing youngsters through as signing older, more experienced players. Kompany had been lined up months earlier to take over at Burnley too so had plenty of time to prep for the role, whereas we all know that this project found Tomasson only once Gregg approached him after his own appointment a few weeks into close season.

I accept they may have moved from a direct approach under Dyche to more of a cultured way of playing, but didn't that start straight after Dyche was potted in April & they went on a run that nearly saved their skins?

And let's not forget, Burnley are only 2 points ahead of us having had their own blips.

I just don't see how you can draw the conclusion that JDT needs to change his coaching methods just because we're not playing fluid football week in week out. 

On the coaching team point, fair enough it's not totally new. But the 2 kept on are the least senior of the 5 now in place so it doesn't dilute my overall point; they have to do as they're told too & change their ways of coaching to fit JDT's desires, which arguably strengthens my point about lots of background changes that can't possibly be fully implemented in the time he's been here.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Atko's Engine

[Sweaty Gussets]

39 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Why would I report you for replying if I referenced you directly? I've never reported anyone, let alone someone who engages in constructive discussion!

The only thing that is similar between Kompany & Tomassen is the approx date they took control of their respective clubs. Even then Kompany came into a club with loads of money to pick & choose his targets, whereas we've had to rely as much on bringing youngsters through as signing older, more experienced players. Kompany had been lined up months earlier to take over at Burnley too so had plenty of time to prep for the role, whereas we all know that this project found Tomasson only once Gregg approached him after his own appointment a few weeks into close season.

I accept they may have moved from a direct approach under Dyche to more of a cultured way of playing, but didn't that start straight after Dyche was potted in April & they went on a run that nearly saved their skins?

And let's not forget, Burnley are only 2 points ahead of us having had their own blips.

I just don't see how you can draw the conclusion that JDT needs to change his coaching methods just because we're not playing fluid football week in week out. 

On the coaching team point, fair enough it's not totally new. But the 2 kept on are the least senior of the 5 now in place so it doesn't dilute my overall point; they have to do as they're told too & change their ways of coaching to fit JDT's desires, which arguably strengthens my point about lots of background changes that can possibly be fully implemented in the time he's been here.

Good to see you don't report people for engaging in genuine discussion. It's also refreshing to engage with someone who is capable of a discussion, rather than making it personal....and then running to the teacher like children.  I feel a bromance coming on💗

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree.  He's had more than enough time IMO to implement his own style (see Kompany and many other managers down the ages) - fast intense attacking football with a 'fluid' front four is how JDT advertised it. There's been very little evidence of that. Maybe it will come in time.

BTW, when is the expiry date on the 'not had enough time to implement his ideas/style of play' excuse?? 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Sweaty Gussets

[Mercer]

To me, it's simple with Dack.

JDT sees him every day in training and has also seen him when he's played this season whether it be in friendlies, in the Carabo Cup or in Championship games when used.

Sadly, I think the two horrific injuries have finished Dack as a force at this level.

If Dack was anything like the player he once was then I think he would be ripping it up in training making it virtually impossible for our manager to leave him out of our starting 11.  When he has been used in matches, IMO, he's a shadow of what he once was - the football brain may still be there but his body will not allow him to do what he once did. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Sadly, I think the two horrific injuries have finished Dack as a force at this level.

He was excellent against Blackpool (like everyone else) and garbage against Bristol City (like everyone else).

He needs a run of 4 or 5 consecutive games before a judgement can be made either way on his fitness. Maybe he's not the problem? 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Sweaty Gussets

[booth]

3 hours ago, M_B said:

A manager with a "decimated" squad doesn't leave out his most expensive signing for two games when fit,and prioritise England u19's over a league match at Luton. 

Let's have it right, the squad is there as shown on Tuesday, he's having to leave supposedly important players out of the squad, never mind the team. 

He's got the players at his disposal, nobody expects miracles and joint 5th is a more than creditable start, but the decimated squad argument needs leaving behind, it's been disproved already. 

I agree about the strange decisions to leave Smodics, A Wharton and Dack out, but Luton aside what you're saying is bonkers. We've had three first team defenders out for how many games?

And we don't have one centre forward we can rely upon at the club.

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

What frustrated and worries me is the fact we are playing the same way in the 89th minute as we were in the 5th minute and it simply wasn't working.

Same as BCFC at home. The stat that we've lost every game this season where we've fallen behind is further evidence that there is no plan B.