v Sunderland (h) 18/10/2022

[RoversTilliDie]

12 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Is the lad as good as Armstrong was at Rovers ? He tore up this division but he’s done next to nothing at Southampton. It’s a big step up and it gets bigger every season.

I would take Adam Armstrong back with open arms anyday.

[USABlue]

On 19/10/2022 at 02:28, johnradfordsubbuteo said:

Anyone else think Morton is now crucial to this team? Knits it together, links back to front, great ball carrier and passer. He reminds me of Tugay, which is some compliment. He takes responsibility and with it risks, but I could always forgive Toogs the odd time he cost us. His confidence for such a young player is other worldly.

The boy has some silky skills for sure.

[USABlue]

On 19/10/2022 at 04:24, arbitro said:

I thought we got the rub of the green with Pawson's decisions. I called it a penalty in real time and Wharton is clearly offside for the second. If it's any consolation I thought the best player on the pitch was Roberts who might, after several years be fulfilling his potential. Seeing Mowbray throw three substitutes on reminded me of how many times he did that here with no plan. At times after that it looked like a kids game with your players all over the place just running around.

I think it was a penalty but offside no.  Player in the wall olays Whatton on and maybe the ref thought well if you had not given Scitt a two handed shove he would not have been there.

  Getting irritated at the amount.of holding players are getting away with and still hate all the play acting and falling down with the slightest touch.  Penalty decision makes up for all those not gone our way either for or against.  Still took me about 6 views to make up my mind.  Sky really don't like us do they.

[USABlue]

On 19/10/2022 at 04:51, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

You knocked it about well at times, so having a decent recognised striker could've made a big difference. I was surprised about how comfortable on the ball most of your team looked. Think you're right about finishing comfortably in Mid-table. Mowbray will likely start to annoy sections of your support in time, but he has enough about him to keep you well clear of danger. Kicking on might be a slightly different question!

 

Even though plenty of refs would've given a pen, I'm still not at all convinced so I don't agree that he gifted us two. I think we should've made a lot more of some of the breaks that we made in the second half too, but I accept that it was a pretty tight game overall. 

Just you wait till February and the death spiral coming your way.  I did think Sunderland looked a good side and had I not known I would have said no way does Mowbray manage a team that plays that way.  

[USABlue]

22 hours ago, Ossydave said:

We had a blatant free kick on Garrett waved away right on the edge of the Sunderland box not long before the penalty claim as well, so may well have been in front before the incident.  Shoulda/Woulda/Coulda.

 

Clear foul in my eyes too.  Not the only one not given either.

[only2garners]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Colleges off around here not sure about the schools.

Run Shaw college has two weeks - this and next week. The schools will be off next week.

It’s bizarre that the fixture list has games nearly every midweek in October except the one that most schools are off.

[USABlue]

21 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Hedges never touched the ball prior to connecting with Clarke. It was Clarke's foot that moved the ball.

Wharton was offside.

Full stop.

Comma maybe but not full stop.  Just cos that is your opinion it does not make it so.  By letter of the law that oush on Wharton warranted a pen. so equal equal. 

[USABlue]

20 hours ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Tony Mowbray lost the plot the last 3rd of last Season. What a replacement JDT is turning out to be. With the team we've got we should be putting in a serious challenge for a top 6 finish. Dare we dare to dream of automatic after last Season. Hang your heads in shame those who gave JDT some stick first month of the Season.

Steady on now it is early days.  We don't yet know if JDT has a death spiral in him.  Signs are promising.  Confidence is what this group needs only wins will bring that.  Two W's in a row is great, now let's get 3.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

1 hour ago, USABlue said:

Comma maybe but not full stop.  Just cos that is your opinion it does not make it so.  By letter of the law that oush on Wharton warranted a pen. so equal equal. 

Would have been an interesting couple for VAR - for the penalty not given, it took Sky quite a few goes before they decided it should have been given. Would VAR have been able to reach a decision quick enough to stop Diaz scoring ?

For the offside - which was tight - Wharton was only offside as he had been pushed - so what would they have given.

Either way makes no odds - we won 2-0  - and it is a refreshing change to get the rub of the green from officials 🙂

 

[roversfan99]

16 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I’ve an affinity for Sunderland with some family roots there. Mowbray has landed on his feet at the club with some real talent and speed in the squad - I feel he will be found wanting and will suppress some of the talent in the short term like he did at times here with incessant tinkering. Sunderland fans are an unforgiving bunch and won’t put up with mediocrity 😅 as for Roberts if you ask their support he blows hot and cold hence why he is in the championship but with performances consistent like last night he has shown he has real quality - not many players with his quality in this league

Has he fallen on his feet with that squad? They have quite a few of a squad that stagnated in League 1 for years, they have Corry Evans as captain and even their attacking players are ones with at best mixed careers who have flattered to deceive or loanees who are very young and raw.

16 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm not sure you can say its was awful refereeing at all given that from one angle it's look like Hedges got the ball and from another doesn't like he did but Sky did slow it down to see. Also for Wharton's goal your defender pushing him offside. 

Can I ask why Sunderland didn't sign another striker in the summer and why haven't you look at free agent for the season? Also what is the latest on Ross Stewart's contract situation? 

I wouldn't say last night performance at all but well managed and we played the game situation. 

I'm not convinced it was foul at all when you look at different angles. I think the ref got it right from his angle at proper speed. I'm against VAR in football. 

Its was clever by JDT to play them on opposite side to match Roberts and Clarke. 

Can Dack play in the current formation and style we are playing? 

I think his missus just want her guy to play and enjoy his football, But that's a side issue and nothing more. 

 

Maybe fans have asked for it by contacting the Rovers about it. 

You do know that you are allowed to admit when blatant errors in officiating have gone in our favour? They won't revoke the win if you do.

The first was a foul, I didn't think it was at first as I thought that Hedges got the ball but he didn't. The second was a clear offside, even for you your justification is a stretch. We got a massive, massive helping hand from the officials, had VAR been in place then it would have almost certainly overturned both decisions to correct them. As it is, it isn't in place and we won so happy days, but I don't get why you would pretend.

In the second half we struggled to keep the ball and kept giving it back to Sunderland, allowing them to sustain pressure but they lacked a goal threat due to Simms and Stewart being out.

Can Dack fit this style, as an excellent player at this level, yes he can. Hopefully back in the squad at the weekend, he would have been a better sub than Vale or Dolan.

14 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

A 20 year old striker? If he's good we'll take him, we now give youth a chance. Mowbray tends not to and thinks they are still kids at 23.

Mind you Thompson has played a game for Burnley so some of our fans wouldn't tolerate that.

 

For all of his flaws here, bringing youth through was something he did well.

[booth]

7 hours ago, JacknOry said:

They are comparing Stewart and BBD on their forums. I know fans often have club-biased specs on but most are saying they wouldnt swap a 26 year old Stewart for a 23 year old BBD. Admittedly, not seen much of their lad but i also havnt seen half the premier league, and top league French and Spanish clubs linked with him either. 

Funny how if reports are to be believed, we could be replacing BBD with Rod in January.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

53 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Has he fallen on his feet with that squad? They have quite a few of a squad that stagnated in League 1 for years, they have Corry Evans as captain and even their attacking players are ones with at best mixed careers who have flattered to deceive or loanees who are very young and raw.

You do know that you are allowed to admit when blatant errors in officiating have gone in our favour? They won't revoke the win if you do.

The first was a foul, I didn't think it was at first as I thought that Hedges got the ball but he didn't. The second was a clear offside, even for you your justification is a stretch. We got a massive, massive helping hand from the officials, had VAR been in place then it would have almost certainly overturned both decisions to correct them. As it is, it isn't in place and we won so happy days, but I don't get why you would pretend.

In the second half we struggled to keep the ball and kept giving it back to Sunderland, allowing them to sustain pressure but they lacked a goal threat due to Simms and Stewart being out.

Can Dack fit this style, as an excellent player at this level, yes he can. Hopefully back in the squad at the weekend, he would have been a better sub than Vale or Dolan.

For all of his flaws here, bringing youth through was something he did well.

Mowbray bringing youth through ? Really, that’s news to me. The only time he gave a young player a game was when he’d no other choice.

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Mowbray bringing youth through ? Really, that’s news to me. The only time he gave a young player a game was when he’d no other choice.

Absolute nonsense.

Travis broke through under him and remained consistently in the side, contrary to expectations of reinstating Smallwood when he returned from a ban.

Buckley broke through and was persisted with, becoming a regular.

Nyambe only broke through properly under Mowbray, and consistently played throughout his tenure.

Wharton broke through under him and became a regular.

Throw in Lenihan and half of his team was through the academy. There are also other examples of players including Dolan, (signed as an under 23 player) Rankin Costello, Carter and Butterworth.

[AllRoverAsia]

When TM arrived at Rovers he wanted the money spent on Academy spent on building the first team through the market. His earliest Brentford aspirations.

He had to change his approach and look to the academy whilst also, sometimes, getting a decent transfer kitty.

He used quite a number of poor purchases of aging players in place of blooding academy.

His use of academy increased the longer he was at Ewood, it had to as the taps were being turned off to an extent.

He made some good signings and did pretty good in the loan market BUT he did not invent our academy or its production line, it's just that now we have to use it.

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Absolute nonsense.

Travis broke through under him and remained consistently in the side, contrary to expectations of reinstating Smallwood when he returned from a ban.

Buckley broke through and was persisted with, becoming a regular.

Nyambe only broke through properly under Mowbray, and consistently played throughout his tenure.

Wharton broke through under him and became a regular.

Throw in Lenihan and half of his team was through the academy. There are also other examples of players including Dolan, (signed as an under 23 player) Rankin Costello, Carter and Butterworth.

Travis was due to go on loan to Portsmouth before he played against Sheff Utd and Smallwood got sent off.

Scott was blooded due to lack of options in defence after being publicly described as a 'boy' and 'not ready' the week before... 'defenders are coming'.

Mowbray made no reservation in any of his interviews about the fact he didn't trust youth and pushing for more funds to buy some 'real men'. 

There's absolutely no way, at all, Jake Garrett would have started on Tuesday under Mowbray. Nor would Phillips or Wharton have made their debuts.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Mellor Rover said:

Travis was due to go on loan to Portsmouth before he played against Sheff Utd and Smallwood got sent off.

Scott was blooded due to lack of options in defence after being publicly described as a 'boy' and 'not ready' the week before... 'defenders are coming'.

Mowbray made no reservation in any of his interviews about the fact he didn't trust youth and pushing for more funds to buy some 'real men'. 

There's absolutely no way, at all, Jake Garrett would have started on Tuesday under Mowbray. Nor would Phillips or Wharton have made their debuts.

Regarding Travis, if whats and maybes. What did happen is as I said, he got a chance, did well and was consistently stuck with as a regular from there.

Wharton had numerous loan spells which seemed to really help to develop him as a man, came back much better for it and became a regular.

You look at Phillips, he wouldn't have played anywhere near as much as he had if it wasn't for the injuries earlier in the season, we had no alternative. Garrett wouldn't have played had Travis been available, much of it is circumstantial and timing.

7 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

When TM arrived at Rovers he wanted the money spent on Academy spent on building the first team through the market. His earliest Brentford aspirations.

He had to change his approach and look to the academy whilst also, sometimes, getting a decent transfer kitty.

He used quite a number of poor purchases of aging players in place of blooding academy.

His use of academy increased the longer he was at Ewood, it had to as the taps were being turned off to an extent.

He made some good signings and did pretty good in the loan market BUT he did not invent our academy or its production line, it's just that now we have to use it.

 

I don't think that anyone suggested that he invented it, and there is an element of truth in us needing to be more reliant on it now due to the lack of money, applying to both Mowbray and Tomasson. But Mowbray did bring players through, and although it is fashionable now to criticise him wherever possible, creating alternative situations where youngsters dont break through under him to discredit him seems needless to me.

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, Mellor Rover said:

Travis was due to go on loan to Portsmouth before he played against Sheff Utd and Smallwood got sent off.

Scott was blooded due to lack of options in defence after being publicly described as a 'boy' and 'not ready' the week before... 'defenders are coming'.

Mowbray made no reservation in any of his interviews about the fact he didn't trust youth and pushing for more funds to buy some 'real men'. 

There's absolutely no way, at all, Jake Garrett would have started on Tuesday under Mowbray. Nor would Phillips or Wharton have made their debuts.

 

A key part of that was that he was started against Sheffield United! And then carried on playing after his performance. Before then he had played a few games in L1, looked okay but got a stupid red card in the run in which could have cost us. At the same time the much maligned Evans and Smallwood had us winning plenty of games until we approached the end of the year, so no surprises that he wasn't getting a look-in at that stage. 

 

Like almost all managers, Mowbray wanted a blend of youth and experience. But you don't end up playing (usually multiple) academy graduates in every single league game over a five year period, and having near enough the youngest squad in the league, if you never give youngsters a chance. 

[RoversTilliDie]

5 hours ago, USABlue said:

Clear foul in my eyes too.  Not the only one not given either.

How many refereeing decisions have gone against Rovers in the past with not to much complaining, football has a habit of evening itself out over a season.

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

How many refereeing decisions have gone against Rovers in the past with not to much complaining, football has a habit of evening itself out over a season.

No it doesn't, but people like to tell themselves that. Something that happens in the future at football, has very little relevence, if any, to something that has happened in the past.

Edited October 20, 2022 by rigger

[RoversTilliDie]

50 minutes ago, rigger said:

No it doesn't, but people like to tell themselves that. Something that happens in the future at football, has very little relevence, if any, to something that has happened in the past.

Rubbish.

[rigger]

46 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Rubbish.

Expand on your reasoning.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

5 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Mowbray bringing youth through ? Really, that’s news to me. The only time he gave a young player a game was when he’d no other choice.

or they came from another club on loan. If Mowbray had been here this season Garrett would have been at Curzon Ashton not in the first team

[Admiral Nelsen]

51 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

or they came from another club on loan. If Mowbray had been here this season Garrett would have been at Curzon Ashton not in the first team

 

To be fair, JDT has brought in Morton. Mowbray only brought in youngsters from other clubs if they were instant first teamers like Elliott or Van Hecke, and if they weren't up to that then they didn't play.

He also gave at least eight academy players their league debut since the L1, some becoming mainstays of the team before he left like Trav and Buckley. JRC and Butterworth would've played more too had it not been for injuries. This isn't even including the players like Dolan who he signed as an academy player and brought straight into the first team, or Nyambe and Raya who weren't established first teamers before Mowbray took over. 

 

I know we're all glad that he's not here anymore, but saying that Mowbray didn't bring through young players just doesn't tally with the evidence. 

[Butty]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Absolute nonsense.

Travis broke through under him and remained consistently in the side, contrary to expectations of reinstating Smallwood when he returned from a ban.

Buckley broke through and was persisted with, becoming a regular.

Nyambe only broke through properly under Mowbray, and consistently played throughout his tenure.

Wharton broke through under him and became a regular.

Throw in Lenihan and half of his team was through the academy. There are also other examples of players including Dolan, (signed as an under 23 player) Rankin Costello, Carter and Butterworth.

It took him ages before he played Nyambe regularly, he f**ked him about for a couple of seasons having him in and out of the team and even for a good period choosing to play Bennett infront of him at right back. I think Nyambe may have stayed if Mowbray left earlier (not that I’m overly bothered by that)

[roversfan99]

31 minutes ago, Butty said:

It took him ages before he played Nyambe regularly, he f**ked him about for a couple of seasons having him in and out of the team and even for a good period choosing to play Bennett infront of him at right back. I think Nyambe may have stayed if Mowbray left earlier (not that I’m overly bothered by that)

He played 29, 29, 31, 38 and 31 times, and had quite a few muscle injuries in that time.