v Sunderland (h) 18/10/2022

[47er]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

although it is fashionable now to criticise him wherever possible,

You really think most of us have turned on Mowbray now he's gone?

We worked him out a long time before that!

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, 47er said:

You really think most of us have turned on Mowbray now he's gone?

We worked him out a long time before that!

No I agree, we are all happy that he is gone but sometimes things are said out of hatred that simply arent true.

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You do know that you are allowed to admit when blatant errors in officiating have gone in our favour? They won't revoke the win if you do.

The first was a foul, I didn't think it was at first as I thought that Hedges got the ball but he didn't. The second was a clear offside, even for you your justification is a stretch. We got a massive, massive helping hand from the officials, had VAR been in place then it would have almost certainly overturned both decisions to correct them. As it is, it isn't in place and we won so happy days, but I don't get why you would pretend.

What do you accept that people have a different opinion to you based on what they seen!

On the foul by Hedges, all depends which angle you watch it from. First angle shown he got the ball and second angle shown he didn't. So there is my view on it. 

On the offside, me and some other posters on here said similar things about it. 

VAR is a load of bollocks and causing more problems than ever. Refereeing is about opinions and sometimes there isnt defidefinitely correct decision to make as we seen with shirt pulls recently 

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

In the second half we struggled to keep the ball and kept giving it back to Sunderland, allowing them to sustain pressure but they lacked a goal threat due to Simms and Stewart being out.

Yes we did at times but we defending solid as I've seen us this season. 

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Can Dack fit this style, as an excellent player at this level, yes he can. Hopefully back in the squad at the weekend, he would have been a better sub than Vale or Dolan.

Dack isn't the same player as Vale or Dolan who play very different positions. Szmodics played as part of 3 man midfield but got forward more the others first half. Second half he played as right sided midfielder as we Gallagher as number 9 with BBD on the left. 

I wouldn't have Dack in the squad at the weekend. I would use the same 18 apart from Travis for Buckley depending on injuries 

Edited October 21, 2022 by chaddyrovers

[dingles staying down 4ever]

9 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

To be fair, JDT has brought in Morton. Mowbray only brought in youngsters from other clubs if they were instant first teamers like Elliott or Van Hecke, and if they weren't up to that then they didn't play.

You can use the two successes but lets not forget others like Raheem Harper or the centre half from Everton. Harper came from West Brom and was younger than our youth players with no experience.

With the exception of Buckley, Mowbray had to be forced to pick our youngsters like others have said. He also like to use them as scapegoats withe prime example being Raya.

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

You can use the two successes but lets not forget others like Raheem Harper or the centre half from Everton. Harper came from West Brom and was younger than our youth players with no experience.

With the exception of Buckley, Mowbray had to be forced to pick our youngsters like others have said. He also like to use them as scapegoats withe prime example being Raya.

I did think about Harper, but like Clarkson last year, when it became apparent that he wasn't doing the business he was binned off. Branthwaite was to cover an injury crisis if I recall.

I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree about him only playing youngsters when he had to. He didn't have to play Dolan who already is approaching 100 appearances for us. He was happy to start JRC until his injuries. For all the talk of him not rating Nyambe, he started him in a large majority of the games where he was fit in every season he was here. He didn't have to play Travis when he did either, but he took his chance and hasn't looked back.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 hours ago, 47er said:

You really think most of us have turned on Mowbray now he's gone?

We worked him out a long time before that!

I worked him out when he couldn’t be bothered winning the league and let Wigan walk away with it. That told me all I needed to know. That and the subsequent failure to strengthen the promotion team in any meaningful way.

[47er]

4 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

You can use the two successes but lets not forget others like Raheem Harper or the centre half from Everton. Harper came from West Brom and was younger than our youth players with no experience.

With the exception of Buckley, Mowbray had to be forced to pick our youngsters like others have said. He also like to use them as scapegoats withe prime example being Raya.

He misused Reid. Underrated him.

[roversfan99]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

What do you accept that people have a different opinion to you based on what they seen!

On the foul by Hedges, all depends which angle you watch it from. First angle shown he got the ball and second angle shown he didn't. So there is my view on it. 

On the offside, me and some other posters on here said similar things about it. 

VAR is a load of bollocks and causing more problems than ever. Refereeing is about opinions and sometimes there isnt defidefinitely correct decision to make as we seen with shirt pulls recently 

Yes we did at times but we defending solid as I've seen us this season. 

Dack isn't the same player as Vale or Dolan who play very different positions. Szmodics played as part of 3 man midfield but got forward more the others first half. Second half he played as right sided midfielder as we Gallagher as number 9 with BBD on the left. 

I wouldn't have Dack in the squad at the weekend. I would use the same 18 apart from Travis for Buckley depending on injuries 

If you genuinely would prefer a bench of Pears, Mola, Phillips, Travis, A.Wharton, Dolan and Vale with Dack left out should we potentially need a goal, then I can't help but thinking that again you are just saying what you expect Tomasson to do and are agreeing with it.

You are either offside or not, and he was.

[Atko's Engine]

First chance to post on here since Tuesday.

Have to say it was a great advert for Championship football. Without being a 9 goal thriller, both teams went at each other with 100% commitment right into the 95th minute, & there was no shortage of ability on show from either side.

I think we deserved that win, whether or not there was some controversy over the goals themselves (fwiw I think both were valid but could've gone against us, we've had enough 60/40s go against us to be entitled to some luck). I think that it would be picky to be critical of any Rovers player, who all played their part in a really hard fought win.

Standout performances were from Hyam, Morton & Szmodics for me, but credit to everyone. BBD is just a physical beast, the power & strength in his running in injury time testament to his fitness levels, just a shame he couldn't find the finish or final pass.special mentions too to Hedges, Brittain & esp Carter, who I felt had a great debut and didn't look at all out of place. I read some comments on here earlier in the game that he was hiding, I didn't get that impression at all.

TK seems back to his best after a bit if a blip, Carter & Wharton were solid, Gally was quiet but still put in a shift & was crucially involved in BBD's goal.

I think we all wondered what formation we'd have when the team was announced, but it worked really well. Ok it was "only Sunderland" but I think it shows that JDT and his staff have a good amount of tactical nous about them.

The future looks really bright. We started that game with Scott W, Carter & Garrett, finished with Dolan & Vale in addition, with Adam W, Buckley & Phillips unused & the likes of Travis,  & Barnes unavailable. That's some credit to our academy, plus 19y/o loanee Morton directing the midfield.  Even our older players are under 30 (bar Ayala), and all have plenty of time on their contracts bar BBD & Dack.

Whilst there is clearly a long way to go, and some difficult decisions to make off the pitch (northeast the futures of the latter 2 players mentioned), after 16 games we have to recognise we"re in a far better position than we could have expected, and have given ourselves a real springboard for success.

 

[Dreams of 1995]

I personally believe the player closest to the byline and in the wall played Scott Wharton onside

 

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I personally believe the player closest to the byline and in the wall played Scott Wharton onside

 

My thoughts too.

[RoversTilliDie]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I personally believe the player closest to the byline and in the wall played Scott Wharton onside

 

Lets move on to the Birmingham game Tomorrow, and keep our excellent home form going with a win.

[Dreams of 1995]

2 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Lets move on to the Birmingham game Tomorrow, and keep our excellent home form going with a win.

Absolutely. It was just in response to the posters who feel like it was a nailed on offside. It wasn't. The wall plays him on. Use the 6 yard box lines as a guide.

I'm quite happy the referee gave those decisions our way. Plenty go against you over the course of a season. That's football, and why the Championship is easily more watchable and exciting than the stale Premier League

As a note I would be wary to say the penalty was a nailed on spot kick too but that's just me

[roversfan99]

I am very happy that those decisions went for us obviously, but I think we got away with 2 mistakes from the officials.

I also think the watchability of the Championship is overrated simply because of the evenness caused by an overall lack of quality. 75% of games at this level can really lack in quality and entertainment.

[RoversTilliDie]

37 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I am very happy that those decisions went for us obviously, but I think we got away with 2 mistakes from the officials.

I also think the watchability of the Championship is overrated simply because of the evenness caused by an overall lack of quality. 75% of games at this level can really lack in quality and entertainment.

I also think we didn't see the best from Sunderland, who had 1 or 2 injuries Tuesday night, but no taking it away from Rovers a solid all round performance and great result. Lets hope our fantastic home form continues Tomorrow. No changes please JDT, same starting 11 as Tuesday.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If you genuinely would prefer a bench of Pears, Mola, Phillips, Travis, A.Wharton, Dolan and Vale with Dack left out should we potentially need a goal, then I can't help but thinking that again you are just saying what you expect Tomasson to do and are agreeing with it.

You are either offside or not, and he was.

On the bench you need a variety of options of defensive and attacking options but given how we are playing; we aren't playing with a number 10, and I don't think Dack has the work rate to play in 3-man midfield now. So, the debate is do you put him on the bench or not for a very different option and change of system? I said pre-Sunderland game that we need a number 9 striker on the bench which you disagree with doing. 

[Dreams of 1995]

There’s an exceptionally good angle of the cross in from Hedges where you can see the exact moment Hedges kicks it and the positioning of the wall / Wharton 

You will see he is onside. It wasn’t a mistake from the official 

It was actually very cute play from Scott, standing in a position where the defender made no attempt to get between him and the goal, and at the last moment got himself onside by using the wall. A lapse in concentration from a Mowbray drilled team at a set piece - imagine that

If it had been Rovers defending that free kick in a similar way to Sunderland I’d be fuming. Very poor from them but in no way an officials mistake. He was onside 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Dreams of 1995

[Upside Down]

Everyone seems to be focusing so much on these decisions. 

Normally they go against us so who cares.

The 'penalty' was 50/50 and the 'offside' was a result of Wharton being shoved into that position. So should that have been a penalty also?

Birmingham next. Let's smash em.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

22 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

I did think about Harper, but like Clarkson last year, when it became apparent that he wasn't doing the business he was binned off. Branthwaite was to cover an injury crisis if I recall.

I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree about him only playing youngsters when he had to. He didn't have to play Dolan who already is approaching 100 appearances for us. He was happy to start JRC until his injuries. For all the talk of him not rating Nyambe, he started him in a large majority of the games where he was fit in every season he was here. He didn't have to play Travis when he did either, but he took his chance and hasn't looked back.

JRC got forced to play RB even though he wasn't one. Oddly at the expense of onother youngster, Nyambe.

[roversfan99]

On 21/10/2022 at 20:33, chaddyrovers said:

On the bench you need a variety of options of defensive and attacking options but given how we are playing; we aren't playing with a number 10, and I don't think Dack has the work rate to play in 3-man midfield now. So, the debate is do you put him on the bench or not for a very different option and change of system? I said pre-Sunderland game that we need a number 9 striker on the bench which you disagree with doing. 

I would have agreed if I felt that we had another striker that offered a goal threat and was capable at Championship level, in Hirst and Vale I do not see that and Dack is far more likely to get a goal if we need one.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I would have agreed if I felt that we had another striker that offered a goal threat and was capable at Championship level, in Hirst and Vale I do not see that and Dack is far more likely to get a goal if we need one.

But Dack isn't a striker so he doesn't fit how we want to play

[Mike E]

On 22/10/2022 at 07:01, dingles staying down 4ever said:

JRC got forced to play RB even though he wasn't one. Oddly at the expense of onother youngster, Nyambe.

I always thought he was an attacking midfielder as a youth, he always seemed to be among the assists/goals.

[roversfan99]

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

But Dack isn't a striker so he doesn't fit how we want to play

Why did we sign Szmodics then who plays in the same position as Dack? If we needed a goal, we likely would change formation anyway.

Something has clearly happened behind the scenes, because even you at your current peak of just echoing everything from within the club surely cannot genuinely believe that if we were 1 down, that Vale (never scored for us, never looked liked scoring, could barely score in Non League) or Hirst (hasn't scored in about 40 odd Championship appearances) would be more useful subs to bring on at 1 down than Dack.

[chaddyrovers]

34 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why did we sign Szmodics then who plays in the same position as Dack? If we needed a goal, we likely would change formation anyway.

Szmodics can play in 3-man midfield like he did against Sunderland which yet again overlooked 

34 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Something has clearly happened behind the scenes, because even you at your current peak of just echoing everything from within the club surely cannot genuinely believe that if we were 1 down, that Vale (never scored for us, never looked liked scoring, could barely score in Non League) or Hirst (hasn't scored in about 40 odd Championship appearances) would be more useful subs to bring on at 1 down than Dack.

Maybe something has happened or not behind the scenes, but I do expect Dack will be gone in January. Given how he has played in the 9 games (total mins of 389 minutes), he hasn't done enough and Szmodics and Hedges are ahead of him for the 10 role IMO given how they performed and how they fit into the team formation, style and tactical. I think how we are playing 5-3-2 formation, Dack doesn't have place in the 18-man squad for me and we need to move on from him and he needs to move from us. 

You keep mentioning Vale non league spell but You never seen him there you can't simply judge him on one simple stat. Same as Hirst spell at Rotherham where he was used a sub mainly. Vale almost scored at Blackpool actually. 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Szmodics can play in 3-man midfield like he did against Sunderland which yet again overlooked 

Maybe something has happened or not behind the scenes, but I do expect Dack will be gone in January. Given how he has played in the 9 games (total mins of 389 minutes), he hasn't done enough and Szmodics and Hedges are ahead of him for the 10 role IMO given how they performed and how they fit into the team formation, style and tactical. I think how we are playing 5-3-2 formation, Dack doesn't have place in the 18-man squad for me and we need to move on from him and he needs to move from us. 

You keep mentioning Vale non league spell but You never seen him there you can't simply judge him on one simple stat. Same as Hirst spell at Rotherham where he was used a sub mainly. Vale almost scored at Blackpool actually. 

So did I, in Ma Kellys.