v Sunderland (h) 18/10/2022

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Szmodics can play in 3-man midfield like he did against Sunderland which yet again overlooked 

Maybe something has happened or not behind the scenes, but I do expect Dack will be gone in January. Given how he has played in the 9 games (total mins of 389 minutes), he hasn't done enough and Szmodics and Hedges are ahead of him for the 10 role IMO given how they performed and how they fit into the team formation, style and tactical. I think how we are playing 5-3-2 formation, Dack doesn't have place in the 18-man squad for me and we need to move on from him and he needs to move from us. 

You keep mentioning Vale non league spell but You never seen him there you can't simply judge him on one simple stat. Same as Hirst spell at Rotherham where he was used a sub mainly. Vale almost scored at Blackpool actually. 

Do you realise the hypocrisy of this? Dack has mainly been a sub.

[roversfan99]

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Edited October 24, 2022 by roversfan99

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you realise the hypocrisy of this? Dack has mainly been a sub.

and? does that matter? of course it doesn't. 

Like I have said to yourself, you have far too much focus on Dack not playing and not seeing that we aren't missing Dack currently and the team which our head coach Jon Dahl Tomasson has said is most important from day 1 of being appointed here. We are second in the league after 17 games and won on the 3 the bounce without Dack. He is no longer our best player anymore and we as a team have moved on to where he is squad player post 2 ACL injuries. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

and? does that matter? of course it doesn't. 

Like I have said to yourself, you have far too much focus on Dack not playing and not seeing that we aren't missing Dack currently and the team which our head coach Jon Dahl Tomasson has said is most important from day 1 of being appointed here. We are second in the league after 17 games and won on the 3 the bounce without Dack. He is no longer our best player anymore and we as a team have moved on to where he is squad player post 2 ACL injuries. 

Well yes, you are defending Hirst's inability to score in over 40 games at this level in which most have been sub appearances, but when it comes to Dack, you say "does that matter."

I never said that we have missed Dack as we clearly haven't over the last 3 games. In all 3 games however, we scored first, and we won't in every game this season. If we go a goal down and need a spark off the bench, and bare in mind that we have lost in all 7 games that we have conceded first. Then Dack is more likely to score or assist than Hirst or Vale.

Edited October 24, 2022 by roversfan99

[chaddyrovers]

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Well yes, you are defending Hirst's inability to score in over 40 games at this level in which most have been sub appearances, but when it comes to Dack, you say "does that matter."

I judged them playing in a Rovers shirt and not a spell 2 seasons ago whilst you ignore his loan spell at Portsmouth where he did much better. 

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I never said that we have missed Dack as we clearly haven't over the last 3 games. In all 3 games however, we scored first, and we won't in every game this season. If we go a goal down and need a spark off the bench, and bare in mind that we have lost in all 7 games that we have conceded first. Then Dack is more likely to score or assist than Hirst or Vale.

Far too much focus on Dack again. We will just agree to disagree on. 

[Dreams of 1995]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Far too much focus on Dack again. We will just agree to disagree on. 

Chad you have to agree that bringing Bradley Dack on with 25 to go would inspire much more confidence than Hirst or Vale 

Dack has always shown us he knows how to score. That instinct doesn’t disappear. I also believe Dack to be a good passer of the ball, and more than once during his time at Rovers, when playing on the counter attack, has he turned and made a good ball through the defence to put someone through on goal. 

It is a shame what is happening to Dack but head coaches often fall out with players. No man is bigger than the club and if our future lies beyond Dack we will survive, obviously, but right now he’s one of the best goal scorers we have and so his presence is missed, even if the results are still positive 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Dreams of 1995

[Mattyblue]

Say SG couldn’t get a kick because of a row with the manager and BD was in the side every week that would also be a correct tactical decision according to Chaddy, so not sure why everybody is going back and forth with him on it.

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Chad you have to agree that bringing Bradley Dack on with 25 to go would inspire much more confidence than Hirst or Vale 

Dack has always shown us he knows how to score. That instinct doesn’t disappear. I also believe Dack to be a good passer of the ball, and more than once during his time at Rovers, when playing on the counter attack, has he turned and made a good ball through the defence to put someone through on goal. 

It is a shame what is happening to Dack but head coaches often fall out with players. No man is bigger than the club and if our future lies beyond Dack we will survive, obviously, but right now he’s one of the best goal scorers we have and so his presence is missed, even if the results are still positive 

Not sure why Dack would inspire much confidence this season myself, Dack post injuries fair enough point, but people need to accept he will never be the same player as before. I also don't think he fits how we are playing. 

Like I said yesterday, far too many fans are focusing on Dack not being in the 18 man squad or even starting. The team is playing well and we are second with Dack having very little impact. I don't think you can say we are actually missing him at all. 

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Say SG couldn’t get a kick because of a row with the manager and BD was in the side every week that would also be a correct tactical decision according to Chaddy, so not sure why everybody is going back and forth with him on it.

Matty, it's called having an open and good debate on this issue. Some of us disagree with each other but it's good and fair. 

[roversfan99]

I don't think that anyone has implied that he has been missed in the last 3 wins, obviously not. 

The point is that he is a very good Championship player that many feel could have plenty of use across the rest of the season.

[JacknOry]

In fairness, how do you know he isnt the player he 'was' or that if he isnt, that 'he will never be the same'. We have barely seen him to even make that type of judgement. He says he is fitter than ever.

Unless you have an inside line - you cannot just make assumptions like that. I thought you were Mr. Positive? Surely, you should be positive that Dack comes back to become the same top Championship level player he is/was.  

[Dreams of 1995]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not sure why Dack would inspire much confidence this season myself, Dack post injuries fair enough point, but people need to accept he will never be the same player as before. I also don't think he fits how we are playing. 

Like I said yesterday, far too many fans are focusing on Dack not being in the 18 man squad or even starting. The team is playing well and we are second with Dack having very little impact. I don't think you can say we are actually missing him at all. 

When Dack is on the pitch you feel like he can score. He has an ability to be in the right place at the right time. 
 

The one thing we have done poorly this season is chase a game. If we concede first we tend to lose. Sometimes stealing a goal can be the difference between 0 and 1 point. Could Dack have converted a few losses into draws or wins? 
We are playing well and he probably doesn’t deserve to start, I get that, but I’d rather Dack coming on than Vale at the moment. Even after injuries I think he’s better. And if we are talking about adding value to the squad then allowing Dack to show he can still score will 100% be worth more in value than playing Vale - someone will sign him if they can see he still has it. He can’t show that from the stands though. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think that anyone has implied that he has been missed in the last 3 wins, obviously not. 

The point is that he is a very good Championship player that many feel could have plenty of use across the rest of the season.

So why is all this focus if we haven't missed him the last 3 wins then? I keep repeating this same point Far too focus on Dack still from Rovers fans instead of focusing on the team and good performances we seen this season which we are 2nd from. That would suggest we aren't missing Dack at all wouldn't it? 

14 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

When Dack is on the pitch you feel like he can score. He has an ability to be in the right place at the right time. 
 

The one thing we have done poorly this season is chase a game. If we concede first we tend to lose. Sometimes stealing a goal can be the difference between 0 and 1 point. Could Dack have converted a few losses into draws or wins? 
We are playing well and he probably doesn’t deserve to start, I get that, but I’d rather Dack coming on than Vale at the moment. Even after injuries I think he’s better. And if we are talking about adding value to the squad then allowing Dack to show he can still score will 100% be worth more in value than playing Vale - someone will sign him if they can see he still has it. He can’t show that from the stands though. 

He doesn't deserve to start at all and as I said he doesn't fit into out formation or style of play. 

Dack contract is up at the season, so you aren't adding much player value at all. 

Dack played in those losses like Stoke and Bristol City at Home, Reading and Wigan away. He did play well at Blackpool away. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

So why is all this focus if we haven't missed him the last 3 wins then? I keep repeating this same point Far too focus on Dack still from Rovers fans instead of focusing on the team and good performances we seen this season which we are 2nd from. That would suggest we aren't missing Dack at all wouldn't it? 

He doesn't deserve to start at all and as I said he doesn't fit into out formation or style of play. 

Dack contract is up at the season, so you aren't adding much player value at all. 

Dack played in those losses like Stoke and Bristol City at Home, Reading and Wigan away. He did play well at Blackpool away. 

He did play at Blackpool, and set up the winner with a superb pass in a game more fondly remembered by you for Vale having a shot saved!

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He did play at Blackpool, and set up the winner with a superb pass in a game more fondly remembered by you for Vale having a shot saved!

That one games what about other games where he played we loss? just ignored it cos it Dack and lets obsess over a player we aren't missing. 

I remember that game for a very good performance by the team, yes, the team that matters first not one single player first. 

[DeeCee]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

That one games what about other games where he played we loss? just ignored it cos it Dack and lets obsess over a player we aren't missing. 

I remember that game for a very good performance by the team, yes, the team that matters first not one single player first. 

Said JDT

[Blue blood]

If anyone genuinely thinks Hirst or Vale are better options off the bench than Dack then they need to go to Specsavers. 

I get it's a game of opinions but neither of them have shown anything whatsoever. Contrast with what Dack has ability wise and his potential to return to pre injury Dack and it's a no brainer that he is miles better as an impact sub. 

Can his wages be spent much better for the y? Absolutely - but not till Jan. Therefore he remains the best (or one of) attacking options from the bench and should be used accordingly. 

 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

If anyone genuinely thinks Hirst or Vale are better options off the bench than Dack then they need to go to Specsavers. 

I get it's a game of opinions but neither of them have shown anything whatsoever. Contrast with what Dack has ability wise and his potential to return to pre injury Dack and it's a no brainer that he is miles better as an impact sub. 

Can his wages be spent much better for the y? Absolutely - but not till Jan. Therefore he remains the best (or one of) attacking options from the bench and should be used accordingly. 

 

Book an appointment for JDT. And his is the opinion that counts.

[ben_the_beast]

On 25/10/2022 at 14:39, chaddyrovers said:

Dack played in those losses like Stoke and Bristol City at Home, Reading and Wigan away. He did play well at Blackpool away.

He played 7 minutes against Wigan. That's clutching at straws even by your standards Chaddy. 

Of the other 3 games you've quoted the team generally played quite well at Stoke but lost. He certainly wasn't a burden to the team. As you say he was good against Blackpool and played 45 minutes against Reading, when as a team we were generally terrible.

If we're taking your sample as evidence. He's played 2.5 games, not 4 and was excellent in 1 of those, average in another and played 45 minutes and was as poor as the rest of his teammates against Reading. It's a pitiful sample size for starters as he's not been given a fair chance. And in your pitiful sample he's shown that he has worth.

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, rigger said:

Book an appointment for JDT. And his is the opinion that counts.

I doubt JDT does think they are better. More a case of him wanting the wages for his players or someone else putting pressure on to get rid. Maybe he doesn't think Dacks value for money for his talent. However I seriously doubt it's on pure ability Dacks not in the team! Put it this way, if his wages were around £4-5k/week I've no doubt he'd be ahead of both of the other 2. 

[J*B]

We play three upfront and I’m not taking anyone serious that says Dack isn’t one of our three best forwards. 

[rigger]

9 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I doubt JDT does think they are better. More a case of him wanting the wages for his players or someone else putting pressure on to get rid. Maybe he doesn't think Dacks value for money for his talent. However I seriously doubt it's on pure ability Dacks not in the team! Put it this way, if his wages were around £4-5k/week I've no doubt he'd be ahead of both of the other 2. 

But I would doubt that Dacks wages are £4-5K/week. At what £ level would you say that the other two become a better bet than Dack, taking into consideration we are a championship club, with a championship budget.

[rigger]

8 minutes ago, J*B said:

We play three upfront and I’m not taking anyone serious that says Dack isn’t one of our three best forwards. 

We play best with two up front and three central midfielders. I don't care who you take seriously.

Edited October 28, 2022 by rigger

[tomphil]

We vary the formations at times and the front 3 have in certain games been told to be fluid and interchangeable. Other times it's two wide forwards with a deeper sitting mid or false 9 or whatever and Gallagher is given license to roam in.

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by tomphil

[Blue blood]

45 minutes ago, rigger said:

But I would doubt that Dacks wages are £4-5K/week. At what £ level would you say that the other two become a better bet than Dack, taking into consideration we are a championship club, with a championship budget.

I wouldn't disagree with you here buddy. (Other than I know his wages aren't that, it's hypothetical as in if he were on that he would still be in the team ) My initial point was on talent alone no one would put him behind the other two. 

As for the other two and at what level £ better bet. Thing is I don't really rate either of them. The pragmatist in me is happy to trade Dack for 2 longer term decent players but neither of them strike me as decent. Neither has shown me anywhere near enough to make that kind of swap. Neither seem to be able to cut it at this level or look likely to. So at the moment I wouldn't make the swap with those 2 said players. With others, yes. 

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

He played 7 minutes against Wigan. That's clutching at straws even by your standards Chaddy. 

Of the other 3 games you've quoted the team generally played quite well at Stoke but lost. He certainly wasn't a burden to the team. As you say he was good against Blackpool and played 45 minutes against Reading, when as a team we were generally terrible.

If we're taking your sample as evidence. He's played 2.5 games, not 4 and was excellent in 1 of those, average in another and played 45 minutes and was as poor as the rest of his teammates against Reading. It's a pitiful sample size for starters as he's not been given a fair chance. And in your pitiful sample he's shown that he has worth.

But he played as a number 10 in those games but we aren't playing that way anymore. We playing 3-5-2 with 2 proper strikers and 3 centre midfielders. 

 

2 hours ago, J*B said:

We play three upfront and I’m not taking anyone serious that says Dack isn’t one of our three best forwards. 

We haven't 3 up front for the past 3 games. We moved to 3 man midfield and 2 up top.