World Cup 2022

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, The Hypnotic said:

Fantastic that you agree with equal rights for gay people. I have a gay brother and I’m sure he’d be delighted to hear that there is so much support for “bumming” 🙄 Your penultimate paragraph is spot on though and there is no way that the WC should have gone to a country with such extreme views on cultural and moral customs that most of the west share. However, the WC is in a country that do not share our values. Morality is subjective and we have no right to tell anyone in another country how to live their lives or try to force our values on them, no matter how repulsive their values seem to us (the point being that they consider our stance on sexuality, freedom of religion, and personal liberty to be repulsive and we would be up in arms if Saudi or Qatari players tried to highlight the supposed moral degeneracy in a typical western democracy). That’s part of living in a country with liberal, progressive values. If we feel so strongly about it then don’t send a team, don’t watch the matches and don’t broadcast the footage. But equally, don’t go to those countries and expect them to bow down to our self-declared moral supremacy.

I get the sense you're alluding to my mention of 'bumming' as being inappropriate somehow. I don't think any of the many gay friends and acquaintances I've made over the years, many of whom use the term flippantly, would be bothered, let alone in the obvious context of having a little jovial dig at the Qatari's homophobia. It's not like I called someone a 'tank-topped bumboy' like our former PM. I expect most of them would have laughed at the turn of phrase I used.

No doubt FIFA are the main villains in this pantomime for awarding this WC in the first place, but that's not the point. Qatar promised fans could drink in the stadium and that LGBTQ people could attend and feel safe. They can hardly feel safe when the absolute mildest of gestures, displaying their adopted symbol (which is just a fucking rainbow, I mean shit, they happen naturally anyway! It's not like gay people own rainbows or its exclusive use as a symbol) gets this kind of response.

I do believe in respecting other cultures and traditions, but not all of them at all times in all circumstances regardless. There's a world of difference between say, taking your shoes off entering a mosque, or not getting pissed up, and stating that a 7-year penalty for having sex with another consenting adult is wrong.

The Germans wanted to wear a rainbow armband. It's hardly a big deal. As I said, it's not like it was going to cause a surge in homosexuality in a devout Muslim country. And it's not like they wanted to have sex with each other in the centre circle (although the Japanese did end up giving them a good fucking).

The stadiums should almost be treated like an embassy for the tournament duration. There is plenty of precedent in the Arab world, presumably in Qatar too - my best friend practically grew up on a compound in Saudi, where drinking etc is given a lot more leeway.

'we would be up in arms if Saudi or Qatari players tried to highlight the supposed moral degeneracy in a typical western democracy' - well maybe not the players, but the governments and citizens don't exactly keep it quiet. I don't feel a lot of cultural respect coming the other way. And they don't have to keep it quiet - well neither do I, so I'm expressing my views here.

You could flip your statement around - if Qatar feels so strongly about homosexuality and various values held by most modern nations, don't invite the world to your doorstep for a World Cup. But they did, and they promised certain things that they're now ripping away last minute. And FIFA are being soft shits about it. FIFA's stance on the armbands is almost as criminal as their corrupt gifting of the tournament in the first place. The German football association are looking at legal action against them, as they've (DFB) already lost a major sponsor as a result of today.

One more thing...it isn't 'forcing your values' on anyone to express support through an armband, it's a pretty passive gesture. Not one nation in the WC as far as I'm aware has tried to insist that Qatar legalises homosexuality.

Edited November 24, 2022 by bluebruce

[Mike E]

I completely agree with the brilliant and eloquent posts above but I'm going to add one small caveat in support of FIFA and their stance on punishing teams wearing rainbows in support of the LGBTQ+ community:

It is illegal to possess/display a rainbow pattern in Qatar.

Now, the reasons for that law are as ridiculous as you think they are BUT I somewhat understand FIFA's stance in trying to prevent teams going to a FIFA competition and actively choosing to break local laws on such a widely-viewed stage.

[AllRoverAsia]

So ...... How's the actual football going? Or is that in a different thread?

I watched all games yesterday and learnt that a Ref, his assistant and a regiment of VAR do not understand the basic laws of the game ... Unless ... Which is possible, they changed them and told no one.

[Wheelton Blue]

Spain were lovely to watch at times yesterday. Their midfield 3 are right up there.

As England did against Iran, Spain played very well, albeit against very poor opposition. I don't think either of these two games told us an awful lot about Spain or England that we don't already know, other than that they are capable of thrashing the weakest sides.

I fully expect England to beat both USA and Wales, although they won't be as much as a walk over as Iran.

The real test will be post the group stage. IMO, England's problem will be defensively against the better foward lines.

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Spain were lovely to watch at times yesterday. Their midfield 3 are right up there.

As England did against Iran, Spain played very well, albeit against very poor opposition. I don't think either of these two games told us an awful lot about Spain or England that we don't already know, other than that they are capable of thrashing the weakest sides.

I fully expect England to beat both USA and Wales, although they won't be as much as a walk over as Iran.

The real test will be post the group stage. IMO, England's problem will be defensively against the better foward lines.

Fair comments.

 

If we 'go for it' I would back our forwards to score more than those of most other countries, including Spain. France and Brazil are still favourites in my eyes, and have been since before a ball was kicked (granted Brazil still haven't kicked one yet). Argentina were also on my list but they've given themselves a lot do do now to even get out of their group.

[roverandout]

Where Brazil and France are better than us is centreback.  We at least match them or on some cases outmatch them in other areas. For example Brazil have better keeper options than us but we have more depth in goal than France. We have better options than Brazil at fullback but France have a better leftback than us. Midfield without kante and pogba I would take our 2 midfielders. I think final third all 3 nations are pretty much even

[Mattyblue]

Everybody was saying how marvellous Argentina were three days ago.

All a bit early to be saying who’s superior to who at this stage. Tournament football is a unique beast.

 

[47er]

Enjoying Switzerland/Cameroons game even though nil-nil at half-time. One great  thing is the the ref isn't being conned into giving petty free-kicks. No stop-start.

Quite a change from the Premier League!

[arbitro]

I firmly expect the longer periods of added time we are seeing to percolate down to our domestic football soon. In truth though I always think when we are seeing inordinate additional time (when there haven't been any obvious long stoppages) it's usually a failing on the referees part who hasn't managed restarts correctly. In this World Cup there has been little of the restart delays we see here. I find it infuriating when players kick the ball away after a free kick concession or standing on the ball to prevent a quick free kick.

[roverandout]

Switzerland seem such a well organised team without any major superstars. They have alot of really good players though

[Silas]

7 hours ago, Mike E said:

I completely agree with the brilliant and eloquent posts above but I'm going to add one small caveat in support of FIFA and their stance on punishing teams wearing rainbows in support of the LGBTQ+ community:

It is illegal to possess/display a rainbow pattern in Qatar.

Now, the reasons for that law are as ridiculous as you think they are BUT I somewhat understand FIFA's stance in trying to prevent teams going to a FIFA competition and actively choosing to break local laws on such a widely-viewed stage.

Sorry Mike, not having it. I can't excuse them when they specifically said different in advance. 

The now FIFA Senior Adviser said in 2020:

“We will see a progressive change in all of those aspects and rainbow flags, t-shirts will all be welcome in the stadium — that’s a given. They understand very well that is our stance."

And a World Cup Chief Executive said:

“When it comes to the rainbow flags in the stadiums, FIFA have their own guidelines, they have their rules and regulations,” 2022 World Cup chief executive Nasser Al-Khater told the AP. “Whatever they may be, we will respect them.”

 

When you bear in mind what they were talking about then was potentially a sea of flags and T-shirts in the crowds being allowed. And here we are now with one poxy little armband getting worn by one player (the captain) being aggressively stopped, it's oceans away from what was promised. 

I don't blame Qatar, as ever, I lay the responsibility firmly at the door of the abysmal organisation that FIFA is. 

https://egyptindependent.com/ap-exclusive-qatar-to-allow-rainbow-flags-at-2022-world-cup/

[AllRoverAsia]

I am convinced that it was the Qataris final decision, that it was taken along with the alcohol ban quite a while ago.

It was never going to happen. Just a lie to get fans to attend etc etc etc

FIFA don't care, they pick up all the cash tax free anyway.

 

[G Somerset Rover]

4 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Spain were lovely to watch at times yesterday. Their midfield 3 are right up there.

As England did against Iran, Spain played very well, albeit against very poor opposition. I don't think either of these two games told us an awful lot about Spain or England that we don't already know, other than that they are capable of thrashing the weakest sides.

I fully expect England to beat both USA and Wales, although they won't be as much as a walk over as Iran.

The real test will be post the group stage. IMO, England's problem will be defensively against the better foward lines.

Indeed. I'll wager that Pedri will be the best midfielder in the tournament, as he was at the Euros too.

Brazil Serbia should be a great game this evening.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

I firmly expect the longer periods of added time we are seeing to percolate down to our domestic football soon. In truth though I always think when we are seeing inordinate additional time (when there haven't been any obvious long stoppages) it's usually a failing on the referees part who hasn't managed restarts correctly. In this World Cup there has been little of the restart delays we see here. I find it infuriating when players kick the ball away after a free kick concession or standing on the ball to prevent a quick free kick.

It’s only a matter of time before we have a system similar to rugby where the clock stops when the ball is not in play. Not scientific but I bet you wouldn't need to set it at more than 70 minutes to get a 90 minute match. 

[roverandout]

33 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Indeed. I'll wager that Pedri will be the best midfielder in the tournament, as he was at the Euros too.

Brazil Serbia should be a great game this evening.

Bellingham 

[roverandout]

Agree Pedri was phenomenal for Spain last year

[AllRoverAsia]

3 hours ago, roverandout said:

Bellingham 

He is a class act and could play in just about any position. Tall, athletic, tenacious, great engine and very skilful. He also seems to be a level headed young man destined to go high in the game.

Don't join Man U., that's my only tip.

[R0verb0y]

18 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

Canada were very impressive. Daylight robbery, I was rooting for you tonight!

I was a bit surprised not to see Jason Leutweiler in goal for them! 😉😂

[Hasta]

12 hours ago, Mike E said:

I completely agree with the brilliant and eloquent posts above but I'm going to add one small caveat in support of FIFA and their stance on punishing teams wearing rainbows in support of the LGBTQ+ community:

It is illegal to possess/display a rainbow pattern in Qatar.

Well I’ve just tried to find if that is true that it is illegal to display a rainbow flag in Qatar without success .

However there are plenty of reports from December 2020 along the lines of this - FIFA and Qatar says rainbow flags allowed in 2022 World Cup

FIFA have properly caved in since then.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Hasta

[roverandout]

20 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

He is a class act and could play in just about any position. Tall, athletic, tenacious, great engine and very skilful. He also seems to be a level headed young man destined to go high in the game.

Don't join Man U., that's my only tip.

People say he could be the new Gerrard but I think he will be better

[Mike E]

10 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Well I’ve just tried to find if that is true that it is illegal to display a rainbow flag in Qatar without success .

However there are plenty of reports from December 2020 along the lines of this - FIFA and Qatar says rainbow flags allowed in 2022 World Cup

FIFA have properly caved in since then.

In fairness, they seem to be trying to step in on fans' behalf.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/qatar-lgbt-laws-fifa-rainbow-28558303.amp

I can't find any reference to the law myself (now doubting myself), but I was certain I had read that rainbows were a banned pattern to the extent that children's toys were being taken away by police and destroyed.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Soft pen for Ronaldo, feel a bit for Ghana.

 

Even better, an equaliser!

Edited November 24, 2022 by Proudtobeblue&white

[AllRoverAsia]

5 minutes ago, roverandout said:

People say he could be the new Gerrard but I think he will be better

More all round player and much more mobile than Gerrard.

Duncan Edwards?

[AllRoverAsia]

Portugal are still a bunch of poncy divers. Collectively dislikeable.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

3 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Portugal are still a bunch of poncy divers. Collectively dislikeable.

But 1-1 now!