World Cup 2022

[Eddie]

46 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Part of it is because outside World Cups the BBC/ITV pundits and commentators never get to do games with him playing, ergo they seem to be a little starstruck.

It is absolutely the same all over the world. I'd actually say that British TV has been a little more reserved.

[roversfan99]

6 hours ago, roverandout said:

Outstanding at this tournament but pretty crap at club level 

It is fairly irrelevant just because Grizemann has a track record of being world class in a France shirt over numerous tournaments.

But "pretty crap?" He had that weird clause that hasn't let him play more than 30 minutes recently, but for 5 seasons he was outstanding for Atletico Madric, and he was good at Barcelona even though his signing wasn't properly planned as they struggled to get him and Messi in the same team. Maddison could only dream of such a career.

[speeeeeeedie]

18 hours ago, roverandout said:

Maddison would have been the perfect link player Griezmann style this world cup but southgate stubbornes refused to use him. Another stick to beat southgate with 

 

 

England played well enough to beat France with the players on the pitch. Some iffy refereeing, and a missed penalty cost England. It wasn't down to not having James Maddison Griezmanning his way around the park.

 

[roverandout]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It is fairly irrelevant just because Grizemann has a track record of being world class in a France shirt over numerous tournaments.

But "pretty crap?" He had that weird clause that hasn't let him play more than 30 minutes recently, but for 5 seasons he was outstanding for Atletico Madric, and he was good at Barcelona even though his signing wasn't properly planned as they struggled to get him and Messi in the same team. Maddison could only dream of such a career.

He was terrible at Barcelona.  They couldn't wait to gey rid of him. Maybe being a link player is his calling. He hasn't pulled up any trees at atleti since his return either 

[roverandout]

Wait till maddison goes to a big club he'll be a star

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, roverandout said:

He was terrible at Barcelona.  They couldn't wait to gey rid of him. Maybe being a link player is his calling. He hasn't pulled up any trees at atleti since his return either 

I remember watching him at Barcelona and whilst his stats are decent, the problem was getting him and Messi in the same team. His problem back at Atletico has been a contractual issue that has meant that him playing over half an hour incurs a fee, hence why Simeone kept bringing him on after 61 minutes.

That being said, he was absolutely incredible prior to moving to Barcelona and repeatedly is one of if not the best player at each international tournament.

Either way, he is levels above Maddison who is a good player but probably better in your mind because he is English and can be seen as the missing piece to potential glory.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I remember watching him at Barcelona and whilst his stats are decent, the problem was getting him and Messi in the same team. His problem back at Atletico has been a contractual issue that has meant that him playing over half an hour incurs a fee, hence why Simeone kept bringing him on after 61 minutes.

That being said, he was absolutely incredible prior to moving to Barcelona and repeatedly is one of if not the best player at each international tournament.

Either way, he is levels above Maddison who is a good player but probably better in your mind because he is English and can be seen as the missing piece to potential glory.

He’s been France’s best player in every game I’ve seen in this World Cup.

[Dreams of 1995]

Sir Gary to discuss his future with the FA after Christmas 

I think there has been a real reconnection with England and the general public during his time in charge. He’s been a breath of fresh air after some dark days 

Personally I would be gutted to see him leave. In my opinion, in the big games, the only game he holds some level of blame is the Croatia semi. His first major tournament in charge. Against Italy and France we found ourselves unlucky, battling against seriously tough opposition. It could well be that the last two teams we have lost to in major tournaments went on to win it. 
 

However, if the FA is ambitious in their appointment then at least the legacy of Southgate is that he left England in a better place than when he took it on. By all accounts St George’s park and the camp atmosphere is far better and the players look forward to England duty. It wasn’t always this way and it isn’t always guaranteed to be like that 

The next appointment has to be right. This talk in the media of it being inconceivable to appoint a non English manager is ridiculous. Coaches like Tuchel and Pocchetino (examples that spring to mind) are respected by English fans. To the majority the nationality of the coach comes second to his ability to produce good performances, create a good atmosphere in the tournament camps and stay connected with the English crowds. Foreign managers can do that 

[DE.]

Considering the FA's recent record I'd be worried if Southgate does go. I think he's quite limited tactically, and that's one of the reasons we almost always lose against elite opposition, but he's clearly excellent at player management and I think he gets how international management in general works. His flaws could be balanced out by more technically minded backroom staff.

I mean, when you look at the record of appointments post-Hoddle it makes for pretty grim reading.

Keegan - managed a year, knocked out in the Euro 2000 group stages

Sven - can at best be described as having an average tenure, marred by scandals

McClaren - Disaster

Capello - Awful

Roy - Pretty pathetic

Allardyce - Managed a single match before getting himself into a scandal

So yeah... not a great track record. They got lucky with Southgate. 

 

 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Sir Gary to discuss his future with the FA after Christmas 

I think there has been a real reconnection with England and the general public during his time in charge. He’s been a breath of fresh air after some dark days 

Personally I would be gutted to see him leave. In my opinion, in the big games, the only game he holds some level of blame is the Croatia semi. His first major tournament in charge. Against Italy and France we found ourselves unlucky, battling against seriously tough opposition. It could well be that the last two teams we have lost to in major tournaments went on to win it. 
 

However, if the FA is ambitious in their appointment then at least the legacy of Southgate is that he left England in a better place than when he took it on. By all accounts St George’s park and the camp atmosphere is far better and the players look forward to England duty. It wasn’t always this way and it isn’t always guaranteed to be like that 

The next appointment has to be right. This talk in the media of it being inconceivable to appoint a non English manager is ridiculous. Coaches like Tuchel and Pocchetino (examples that spring to mind) are respected by English fans. To the majority the nationality of the coach comes second to his ability to produce good performances, create a good atmosphere in the tournament camps and stay connected with the English crowds. Foreign managers can do that 

I don't agree that he was that unlucky against Italy, even allowing for a penalty loss, because after the early goal he struggled to adjust. We again sat in and the equaliser was inevitable.

[K-Hod]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't agree that he was that unlucky against Italy, even allowing for a penalty loss, because after the early goal he struggled to adjust. We again sat in and the equaliser was inevitable.

Absolutely. Against Italy, it was blatantly obvious they kept coming on stronger and we allowed it to happen. It was crying out for someone to put their foot on the ball and stop them. A real shame that we got so close and effectively bottled it.

[ben_the_beast]

I'm so disillusioned after Rovers recent performances that this weekend I could barely care about our game vs Norwich. All I care about is Argentina vs France. If Rovers performances dont improve, its gonna be one hell of come down once the world cup ends

[roverandout]

1 minute ago, ben_the_beast said:

I'm so disillusioned after Rovers recent performances that this weekend I could barely care about our game vs Norwich. All I care about is Argentina vs France. If Rovers performances dont improve, its gonna be one hell of come down once the world cup ends

I've gone off football till after Christmas.  It's been saturated these last few months 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

I'm so disillusioned after Rovers recent performances that this weekend I could barely care about our game vs Norwich. All I care about is Argentina vs France. If Rovers performances dont improve, its gonna be one hell of come down once the world cup ends

I just texted my son to see wether he was watching the game. His reply - “ Probably, totally sick of them at the moment “.

[roverandout]

On 15/12/2022 at 21:57, roversfan99 said:

I remember watching him at Barcelona and whilst his stats are decent, the problem was getting him and Messi in the same team. His problem back at Atletico has been a contractual issue that has meant that him playing over half an hour incurs a fee, hence why Simeone kept bringing him on after 61 minutes.

That being said, he was absolutely incredible prior to moving to Barcelona and repeatedly is one of if not the best player at each international tournament.

Either way, he is levels above Maddison who is a good player but probably better in your mind because he is English and can be seen as the missing piece to potential glory.

U can't possibly know hes levels above as maddison hasn't had the chance to play for a big club. Or played at a major tournament.  Maddison has all the tools that Griezmann has. Wait till he's playing regularly In big competitions before making that judgement 

Edited December 17, 2022 by roverandout

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

U can't possibly know hes levels above as maddison hasn't had the chance to play for a big club. Or played at a major tournament.  Maddison has all the tools that Griezmann has. Wait till he's playing regularly In big competitions before making that judgement 

You could surely say that about anyone, how do we know that Dack isn't on par with Griezmann? Based on what has been proven, Grizemann is a fantastic player at the highest level, Maddison is a good Premier League player. Until if and when the latter changes, that is where we are.

Many players might seem to have all of the same tools.

[Mattyblue]

The lad is 26, still at Leicester City, has one cap and hasn’t ‘had the chance to play for a big club’ because none of them have gone and bought him. 

Whereas the other fella has spent a career at the very highest level, has 116 caps and is vying with Mbappe to be the player of the World Cup. 

Doesn’t look like the same toolbox to me…

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Mattyblue

[RoverDom]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

U can't possibly know hes levels above as maddison hasn't had the chance to play for a big club. Or played at a major tournament.  Maddison has all the tools that Griezmann has. Wait till he's playing regularly In big competitions before making that judgement 

Similar logic - you can't say Messi is better than me. 

[G Somerset Rover]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

The lad is 26, still at Leicester City, has one cap and hasn’t ‘had the chance to play for a big club’ because none of them have gone and bought him. 

Whereas the other fella has spent a career at the very highest level, has 116 caps and is vying with Mbappe to be the player of the World Cup. 

Doesn’t look like the same toolbox to me…

 

And Messi.

[chaddyrovers]

I haven't watched another game since England went out. Probably won't watched tomorrow Final either. 

On 12/12/2022 at 22:20, Wheelton Blue said:

Presumably then, you are of the opinion that the manager of the women's team should not be in that role, even though she's just won the Euros, purely because she's not English.

You make a fair point there, as I can't argue with that. I can't say I watched the women's England team to be honest. Very little bits. 

On 12/12/2022 at 22:53, roversfan99 said:

If you don't want a foreign manager then I can totally understand that. Its not that which I am calling out, it is the desperate attempts to pick and choose the best performing of loads of historical English managers to try and imply that foreign managers as a collective would do an inferior job.

I am also interested to see your answer to the question posed by @Wheelton Blue

We have nearly 10 years of England's foreign manager and I think we should always appoint an English manager as our national team manager. Leading nations should be picking the best coaches to lead their national team. 

On 13/12/2022 at 07:16, Blue blood said:

 

Chaddy you can't just ignore evidence that contradicts your points! It's poor etiquette. 

Also you are contradicting yourself as part of your championing of Southgate was him getting us to the finals of the Euros! It looks a bit daft to have the Euros count as part of your pro Southgate stance, but not for the Lionesses. 

Also whilst the answer to your question is no, a foreign coach has won the Euros in the men's with Greece. 

Edit - Fwiw I think there is an interesting point in there. Most success has come from countries having managers of the same nationality. Of course that has to be balanced out with most of the times the winners are the best footballing nations and therefore have the best players and managers available but it's food for thought. Maybe we should be looking at how weaker nations do with foreign coaches va same nation? There's an interesting discussion here, so no need to ignore the other side of it 🙂

You make fair points there But I can't comment on the Lioness with any degree of knowledge as I don't watch them much apart from a very little bits. 

Southgate's record in tournament football is the best we had since 1966. That surely can't be argue can it? 

[Dreams of 1995]

It has been announced that Southgate is to stay on as England manager 

I’m happy with that. We move to Euro 24! 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

It has been announced that Southgate is to stay on as England manager 

I’m happy with that. We move to Euro 24! 

Well it hasn't been announced but all the English media is reporting that he will stay on as England manager which I am thrilled and delighted about

[DE.]

I think overall it's a good outcome. The players like him and enjoy playing for the national team. Tournament performances (Nations League aside) have generally been pretty good. I'd like him to bring somebody onto the staff to help him tactically during matches though, particularly when we're playing the better teams. 

[RTM08]

Good man, awful manager. Just an international Tony Mowbray - came in giving it all this about how he'd pick people on form and then in our hour of need throws on the likes of Mount and Sterling who have offered nothing this season for club or country. Most "big" nations make a change after failure - we're about to let him have a 4th. Wouldn't get anywhere near a top division side. 

My Scottish and Welsh friends will be loving this news. 

[roverandout]

50 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

Good man, awful manager. Just an international Tony Mowbray - came in giving it all this about how he'd pick people on form and then in our hour of need throws on the likes of Mount and Sterling who have offered nothing this season for club or country. Most "big" nations make a change after failure - we're about to let him have a 4th. Wouldn't get anywhere near a top division side. 

My Scottish and Welsh friends will be loving this news. 

Not having a pop at you but who gives a stuff what the Scots or Welsh think? One of them can't even get out of a group stage the other will go back to being in the backwaters once bale retires

Edited December 18, 2022 by roverandout