January Transfer Window.

[Mattyblue]

19 minutes ago, RoryRoversIreland said:

Two years ago he was awful with fans booing him. The club was in the middle of a pandemic with a closed stadium. They probably thought there was no panic, he goes to Chile that Summer and everything changed. I don’t think we will be in this position again. But an asset will to be sold in the summer. And hope Rays moves. 

So what if wasn’t pulling up trees at the time? He was a £7million pound asset, a fortune for modern day BRFC, so you get him signed up, just like they correctly did with SG. Nowt we can do about it now, but it can’t ever be allowed to happen again. And I do have more faith that it won’t with GB in situ than the other plonkers we’ve had running the show. 

 

FYI -He was never booed (the dozen idiots at Birmingham aside) . He got fantastic support throughout and it annoys me that this ridiculous narrative has taken hold. Very patient fans here as he would certainly have got dogs abuse at most other clubs.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Mattyblue

[simongarnerisgod]

13 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Undav looks like baby mitrovic 

be fairly happy with porteous and the good experienced keeper

o Brian- break the bank and make it perm 

o`brien will be on 50k  a week,that figure is enough to give swag a heart attack💀

[frosty]

Gallagher’s contract was discussed for a day or two on here then forgotten about. And he’s not exactly a fans favourite. The way some people are going on you’d think there’d have been riots outside Ewood if Brereton had been given a new deal two years ago (when, as is often forgotten for some reason, he was in the middle of a much improved season and the reason he was called up for Chile in the first place - a new deal for him two years ago would have been positively received, not that it should matter of course as has been pointed out). 

Edited January 19, 2023 by frosty

[rovers11]

32 minutes ago, J*B said:

Heard tonight Rovers think Undav, Porteous and Haikan are all agreed and they’re ‘trying to get another’. 

Very good news. I think Undav is a done deal. When Rich Sharpe says it "should happen" then you know he's  been told by the club it's done deal. 

[Hi Mack]

29 minutes ago, J*B said:

Heard tonight Rovers think Undav, Porteous and Haikan are all agreed and they’re ‘trying to get another’. 

Porteous and Haikan both subs, pretty meh signings and a bit pointless at this stage when weve got Pears, Phillips, Carter, Wharton and Barnes as backup.

Undav I like the sound of however! 

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, Hi Mack said:

Porteous and Haikan both subs, pretty meh signings and a bit pointless at this stage when weve got Pears, Phillips, Carter, Wharton and Barnes as backup.

Undav I like the sound of however! 

Suspending my disbelief, maybe Pears and a centre half are going out to generate income?

[Torgeir]

8 minutes ago, Hi Mack said:

Porteous and Haikan both subs, pretty meh signings and a bit pointless at this stage when weve got Pears, Phillips, Carter, Wharton and Barnes as backup.

Undav I like the sound of however! 

Hyam, Barnes and Carter injured atm though?

[Upside Down]

20th of January and still no sign of anything coming in.

Two of the three windows are nearly up and so far we've signed one and a half good players.

[Tricky]

9 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

20th of January and still no sign of anything coming in.

Two of the three windows are nearly up and so far we've signed one and a half good players.

We're stealth these days, don't expect anything until the week beginning when the window closes. 

[AllRoverAsia]

I'll wait for the photos.

[tomphil]

Brereton was an investment signing (allegedly)  the whole idea - once they realised he wasn't going to make the instant impact they thought and Tony changed the narrative - was to grow him. 

To nurture him into a valuable good player who'd either get sold for profit or be a long term asset helping us up the league.

So to have no contingency plan to supplement that just shows you the bunch of useless wallies there are stealing a living at Rovers. The whole idea was to give him time hell enough blue & white speced fans on here shouted everyone should do just that enough times.

To see that huge investment in both time and money leave for a few mill or nothing after 18 mostly productive months with the best yet to come is another total F up. No other way of dressing it up but at least we aren't getting the usual club blames player nonsense that a lot like to lap up.

[bluebruce]

7 hours ago, Gaz85 said:

Unless mistaken, all 4 players had contract offers on the table well before they where coming to an end. 
 

There seems to be a consensus from a lot of people that Rovers just did nothing. None of us know the finer details, but what we do know is each player decided not to sign what was put in front of them. What more do you want??

Nothing in this post refuted anything in mine, which it was quoting. Offering contracts doesn't mean you've managed the situation well, and if that's how you define it then you're easily impressed.

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, imy9 said:

You are funny Mercer.

we are not Man City where we can afford to have our best asset sat in the ressies. Your mentality may work in a corporate world but not when you are working with people and creating an environment where people want to play for us. 

Broughton has literally signed up a lot of our best up and coming players to long term deals. Created an entire scouting network including a European one. This is all in months. However you are right this is evidence that he has been a failure. 

I've worked with people all my working life (employers, employees and clients).  The bottom life is folk want to know what you are about and do you deliver.

Anyone can set up a structure and appoint folk - creating the right structure and appointing the right people is another matter!!!

[ben_the_beast]

The narrative that fans would have been kicking off if Brereton was offered a new deal 2 years ago needs to change because the timelines just don't add up.

He looked a million miles away from a footballer when we first signed him. He then showed some glimpses pre-pandemic and actually showed really good form when the season restarted behind closed doors. Many said in that stint he was one of our best players. Chile don't have a great pool to choose from these days, but he didn't get called up to be an international purely based on the form he showed when he first signed for us.

Obviously he then did well at the Copa America. He still wasn't a household name. He still hadn't banged in 20 goals in half a season. Throughout this timeline his deal should have been extended with a modest increase in salary. Once Armstrong was sold shortly after, Breretons renewal still should have been top of the agenda. Once he started the first few games in red hot form, renewing his contract still should have been top of the agenda. But we and our money pinching ways were still sitting on our hands saying there is an option to extend his contract by a year so we were comfortable.  

I was one who couldn't see a footballer in him when he first signed. But if it was obvious he was beginning to show his potential to a fan who had previously made up his mind, it was clearly obvious to the club. End of the day there was a solid 6 months where the club should have made it a priority. They didn't, all for the sake of saving a few thousand per week, which has ended up costing us up to £20 million. 

That's the real timeline. We shot ourselves in the foot through penny pinching and arrogance. Hiding behind these 1 year options in players contracts has cost the club enormously.

Edited January 20, 2023 by ben_the_beast

[AllRoverAsia]

16 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Brereton was an investment signing (allegedly)  the whole idea - once they realised he wasn't going to make the instant impact they thought and Tony changed the narrative - was to grow him. 

To nurture him into a valuable good player who'd either get sold for profit or be a long term asset helping us up the league.

So to have no contingency plan to supplement that just shows you the bunch of useless wallies there are stealing a living at Rovers. The whole idea was to give him time hell enough blue & white speced fans on here shouted everyone should do just that enough times.

To see that huge investment in both time and money leave for a few mill or nothing after 18 mostly productive months with the best yet to come is another total F up. No other way of dressing it up but at least we aren't getting the usual club blames player nonsense that a lot like to lap up.

Ben has built up too much credit with the fan base and has a better PR outfit, his Mum and Dad, than Rovers do.

They would never pull that old trick off this time.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

What a bizarre - and naive - attitude.

Genuinely hope you aren’t a people manager, in whatever you do for a living.

As has been mentioned already, Broughton will be judged over 4-6 transfer windows, not 6 months into the job.

Managed people all my working life since qualifying as a chartered accountant decades ago and don't have 'people issues'.  Everyone is different, some need carrott approach and some need stick approach - what's not in doubt is every individual wants to know where they stand.

Judging Broughton over 2 to 3 years is farcical.  If I'm brought in to save a company, I'm judged on results in a feckin short space of time!

[ItsRoverZ]

Undav, Porteous and a back up keeper is a brilliant start, a CM and cover fullback and we are really cooking 

I would love for us to have inserted a buy option in the undav deal, otherwise we are back looking for a goalscorer in the summer 

On Porteous, I'm hearing such good things, a loud mouth leader who HATES losing although might be worth a few bets on getting red carded haha

Know nothing on the backup keeper but if it means Pears can go out on loan and get some gametime before being sold I'm all for it!

 

 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

I've not really been following this transfer window very closely! So pleasantly surprised to log on and see that we're close to signing a new keeper (one that looks pretty solid as well and could turn out to be a great bargain on a free)  Kaminski was a big step up from most of the awful keepers that we've had under the Vs but I just find him a bit of a show pony type of keeper sometimes and  his decision making is often poor, He makes some amazing looking acrobatic saves but the rest of his game is pretty average, So I'm hoping this new guy will either come in, be better and claim the number 1 spot or at least force Kaminski to up his overall game.

 

p.s. another reason I've not been following this thread closely is due to all the tedious back and forth blah blah blah over BBD and general willy waving

Edited January 20, 2023 by Armchair supporter supremo

[tomphil]

15 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Managed people all my working life since qualifying as a chartered accountant decades ago and don't have 'people issues'.  Everyone is different, some need carrott approach and some need stick approach - what's not in doubt is every individual wants to know where they stand.

Judging Broughton over 2 to 3 years is farcical.  If I'm brought in to save a company, I'm judged on results in a feckin short space of time!

Not allowed sticks in this era only carrots, got to be careful not to offend them either.

[ben_the_beast]

8 hours ago, Mercer said:

Successful management is about dictating events rather than  letting events dictate to you!!!

You need foresight, nous, judgement and boldness.

Sadly, IMO, Broughton is failing miserably.  I think the evidence is there for all to see and I think it's clear he is a man out of his comfort zone and depth.

 

I like what he has to say when speaking publicly, however the proof is in the pudding and that is where he will be judged. 

If I'm looking for proof, there is very little to back up your narrative on him. Our position in the league is higher than most fans predicted. We have tied down multiple assets to long term contracts. We have hugely increased our back room teams to give the club a real structure. 

Those are all positives in my eyes. The time to judge will be if the staff he has employed deliver. So we can't say he's a resounding success yet, but I'm hopeful. To say he's failing miserably is baseless. The only stick he can be beaten with is our summer transfer dealings which I would rate as average, with a few big hits, a few cheap misses, then Szmodics who is OK, if somewhat over-priced.

Personally I think you just enjoy a little wind up, whilst sipping on a nice glass of red.

[bluebruce]

7 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

27 is young for a centre half, and Brittain's initial fee I thought was reported as £500,000? I wouldn't put another championship team coughing up £3million for him in the future. I may have that fee wrong though. It is only potential of course, but there are no guarantees in football.

Yes but previously we wouldn't TRY to tie them up, until they'd hit the heights... If Brereton was given a five year deal 2 years ago then we'd have been saying it was a complete waste of money. Same for Gallagher, we gave him a new deal (wrongly for me), but if he does come good, the cards are with us now. Not with him having 12 months left on his deal.

Underlined bit is exactly what we've been doing recently. Unfortunately, due to our previous regime, if we'd have sold Brereton in summer then I do believe we'd currently be in a relegation scrap. Just personal opinion. 

27 ish is young (well, peak years usually) for a CB, but we were talking about resale value in the future. He cost 1.5 mill so we are talking 9-12 million for the 6-8x profit mentioned. I don't see how he proves himself enough for a team in the Prem (which is the only place such a bid could come from) to rate him to that sort of tune before he is about 29, at which point his age would make it still a bit of an offputting fee. Is it possible? Sure, but it's not a reasonable prediction to make at this juncture. If he were a striker, maybe.

I thought Brittain had cost around 1.5 mill personally, as that was a figure quoted around the time (maybe what Barnsley wanted?), but the LT seems to have said it could rise to 7 figures, so we'll call it 1 mill (may be above that from the vague wording so seems fair, and for him to attract the sort of bids we are talking about he probably hits all his add ons). So £6-8 million needed for the profit multiplier stated. I'll assume 2 years again to impress Prem sides enough to gamble on him jumping up, so a 26 year old wingback who can attack effectively might be worth that, although he's also proving very injury prone which reduces the allure.

I disagree with this repeated notion that everyone would have kicked off if he signed a new deal 2 years before this one expired. For one thing, as is oft said, who cares? We are often told the paid professionals running clubs know so much more than us, so it's not unreasonable to expect them to judge a situation better than us (or to have faith in someone they already sank a lot of money into).

But moreover, it's just not true. Summer of 2021, Brereton had just finished his first decent season with us. I think there is a lot of rewriting of his history on here. His stratospheric improvement has cultivated the myth that he was dogshit, and then suddenly overnight, he was a machine, but it's bollocks. He was dogshit for his first two seasons with us. Then the pandemic happened, and in the behind closed doors games he grew in confidence and started being a useful member of the team. He was still unorthodox, a little clumsy at times, but he scored 7 in 40 games, many of which weren't full matches and saw him used mostly from the flanks, a decent enough Championship-level return from out wide. He was called up to Chile in May and in June he scored his first international goal and played against Messi's Argentina, now world champions. There was a bit of hype brewing about him in Chile and we were starting to see that there was a footballer in there, and glimpses of the talent we paid so much for. At this point it was clear he was at least a useful squad option with an effective skillset, with room to grow. There were 2 years left on his deal and anything could happen to his profile if some international games went well.

Summer 2021 was actually the absolute perfect time to both observe that he probably was worth keeping around, and to agree reasonable terms. No, we didn't know he was going to smash 20 by halfway through next season (neither did he, so I'm sure his agent wasn't asking for 20-30k pw), but we knew he could fill a spot in the squad, we could see he and his stock may improve, we had a significant investment to protect with about a year max to resolve it before the difficult final year negotiations where the players hold the cards, and he had allegedly signed on pretty cheap wages initially. There was also a worthwhile marketing opportunity in Chile to engage in to recoup some money, though of course we didn't bother with that.

Personally, just trying to recall anecdotally and unverifiably of course, I'd say there was about a 50-50 ish split in fans who would have been fine with him signing say, a 3-year deal with another year option on what I expect would have been reasonable wages. But we should expect the paid professionals running the club to have a much more than 50-50 chance of getting it right.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Know nothing about this Undav lad.  Decent goal record. Doesn't look like he holds the ball up.  Is he quick? 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Wing Wizard Windy Miller

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

For all those moaning about BBD potentially going for nothing need to look at other clubs. In the post Bosman era we have seen numerous examples of players running down their contracts. 

The blame by many seems to be placed on the club - I have no idea what efforts the club have made to keep BBD - and I doubt nor does anyone on this MB. Can anyone categorically say that the club haven't made repeated offers to get him to sign a new contract - and that it isn't a deliberate ploy by his agent to run down his contract. The pre-contract links to foreign clubs started over 12 months ago - coincidence ?

[yankfan]

8 hours ago, rovers11 said:

Very good news. I think Undav is a done deal. When Rich Sharpe says it "should happen" then you know he's  been told by the club it's done deal. 

Can only hope so. Desperately need attacking players in 

[yankfan]

6 hours ago, bluebruce said:

27 ish is young (well, peak years usually) for a CB, but we were talking about resale value in the future. He cost 1.5 mill so we are talking 9-12 million for the 6-8x profit mentioned. I don't see how he proves himself enough for a team in the Prem (which is the only place such a bid could come from) to rate him to that sort of tune before he is about 29, at which point his age would make it still a bit of an offputting fee. Is it possible? Sure, but it's not a reasonable prediction to make at this juncture. If he were a striker, maybe.

I thought Brittain had cost around 1.5 mill personally, as that was a figure quoted around the time (maybe what Barnsley wanted?), but the LT seems to have said it could rise to 7 figures, so we'll call it 1 mill (may be above that from the vague wording so seems fair, and for him to attract the sort of bids we are talking about he probably hits all his add ons). So £6-8 million needed for the profit multiplier stated. I'll assume 2 years again to impress Prem sides enough to gamble on him jumping up, so a 26 year old wingback who can attack effectively might be worth that, although he's also proving very injury prone which reduces the allure.

I disagree with this repeated notion that everyone would have kicked off if he signed a new deal 2 years before this one expired. For one thing, as is oft said, who cares? We are often told the paid professionals running clubs know so much more than us, so it's not unreasonable to expect them to judge a situation better than us (or to have faith in someone they already sank a lot of money into).

But moreover, it's just not true. Summer of 2021, Brereton had just finished his first decent season with us. I think there is a lot of rewriting of his history on here. His stratospheric improvement has cultivated the myth that he was dogshit, and then suddenly overnight, he was a machine, but it's bollocks. He was dogshit for his first two seasons with us. Then the pandemic happened, and in the behind closed doors games he grew in confidence and started being a useful member of the team. He was still unorthodox, a little clumsy at times, but he scored 7 in 40 games, many of which weren't full matches and saw him used mostly from the flanks, a decent enough Championship-level return from out wide. He was called up to Chile in May and in June he scored his first international goal and played against Messi's Argentina, now world champions. There was a bit of hype brewing about him in Chile and we were starting to see that there was a footballer in there, and glimpses of the talent we paid so much for. At this point it was clear he was at least a useful squad option with an effective skillset, with room to grow. There were 2 years left on his deal and anything could happen to his profile if some international games went well.

Summer 2021 was actually the absolute perfect time to both observe that he probably was worth keeping around, and to agree reasonable terms. No, we didn't know he was going to smash 20 by halfway through next season (neither did he, so I'm sure his agent wasn't asking for 20-30k pw), but we knew he could fill a spot in the squad, we could see he and his stock may improve, we had a significant investment to protect with about a year max to resolve it before the difficult final year negotiations where the players hold the cards, and he had allegedly signed on pretty cheap wages initially. There was also a worthwhile marketing opportunity in Chile to engage in to recoup some money, though of course we didn't bother with that.

Personally, just trying to recall anecdotally and unverifiably of course, I'd say there was about a 50-50 ish split in fans who would have been fine with him signing say, a 3-year deal with another year option on what I expect would have been reasonable wages. But we should expect the paid professionals running the club to have a much more than 50-50 chance of getting it right.

Worse than not offering him a contract, think of the wankers we signed.  We could somehow afford to pay Downing to play left back, Trybull on loan, Holtby, and even pay Mulgrew to not play for us.  That 2020-21 squad and wage bill is an underline on Mowbary lunacy