January Transfer Window.

[booth]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The trouble with this “ journey “ and “ project “ talk is that the players buy into it. All of a sudden next weeks match isn’t all that important anymore. We’re on a journey so there’ll be another game after this one and another after that one. If we score first we’ll give it a go, if we don’t - well there’s always next week.

The long time football mantra of not looking beyond doing everything in your power to win the next game has been stood on it’s head.

Based on what I've seen before JDT arrived, a lot of players don't feel that next weeks match is important anyway. If I know it, then he will by now.

I can only imagine JDT walked through the door, had a cursory glance at what he had to work with and thought, there's no way I can work with this lot right now, I don't want the fans thinking I'm a magician. So hence the "project" was born. And if everyone's honest with themselves, before the season started they felt exactly the same. I expected mid table at best with those players. Too many bottlers, passengers and kids.

The big problem with the "project", and something that Waggott should have made them aware of before they started making it public, is that we've had years of Tony Mowbray talking about journeys. It's frustrating to now be back to square one, but we all knew it at the end of last season before JDT arrived.

I've found JDT to be frustrating at times, but I've also seen some signs that with better players we could have a decent team. It's difficult to judge him with this squad, as I've seen them frustrate and disappoint a long time before JDT turned up.

Weird that we've brought in a manager that wants to play a certain way but don't have the budget to support it though.

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I’ve sort of put all my eggs in one basket. 

I don’t rate Waggott - at all. I don’t think he has the best interests of the club at heart and think he’s more interested in ticking boxes than ambition. So I’ve long called for change, especially on the footballing side so I was happy when Broughton was brought in.

I didn’t rate Mowbray. I thought he was an eternal loser, that was stuck in his own ways, consistently unhappy and blamed others for his own errors. So I was happy to see him leave - about 3 years too late in my opinion. 

Gregg Broughton has at least has been consistent about ‘the project’ and whilst it’s different, at least he clearly has a plan and props to him for sticking to it. His messaging hasn’t ever changed.

Broughton has signed his own manager, JDT, who clearly is aligned to ‘the project’ and has his own thoughts of how we should play football. JDT has had more success than any of our previous managers both as a player and a manager, he’s forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know.

So if I start mobbing against GB and JDT now, I’m a hypocrite! They are - in principle - exactly what I’ve asked for. So I’ll judge them after a few years if that’s the benchmark they’re being judged against.

Unlike many on here I don’t think this squad is anywhere near the level required. When the first 11 are all on form they’re a decent side, but as soon as a couple are injured or out of form we’re a lower mid table team. 

I can accept the team not being good enough. 

I can't and will not accept the total capitulations, being out fought week after week after week and the defeatist attitude that permeates the whole club from top to bottom.

We need to strengthen and build up what we've got but that is not a license to just give up when we go a goal down. If you aren't prepared to give 100% for every single game then you can just fuck off as far as I'm concerned. 

Blackburn Rovers, the easiest job in football. Fuck that.

[Guest]

I'm glad we're sticking to this style personally.

We aren't going to sign 11 new players, but the ones we'll bring in, will be ones that are capable of playing it. The best of the ones currently here will survive (Buckley, Dack, S Wharton, Brittain etc.) and the ones who can't play it (Ayala, JRC, Vale, Gallagher, Pickering etc.) will be axed.

You build a style over time and add players into the nucleus of the squad to help take you on another level. We have youth teams now all playing the same style of football at all levels. We're building a foundation to build upon. This squad is nowhere near top 6 quality on paper. Nowhere bloody near. So IMO we can either miss out on playoffs (most likely) playing this style and building for the next couple of years, or we can miss out playing route one balls up to the donkey's we have as strikers.

You don't walk in one random day and decide to change your style, unless you're Tony Mowbray of course. Farke took his football ideas to Norwich, they finished 16th and good ones stayed, the shite was replaced and they turned into the best footballing team I've seen since we were relegated in 2012.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I can accept the team not being good enough. 

I can't and will not accept the total capitulations, being out fought week after week after week and the defeatist attitude that permeates the whole club from top to bottom.

We need to strengthen and build up what we've got but that is not a license to just give up when we go a goal down. If you aren't prepared to give 100% for every single game then you can just fuck off as far as I'm concerned. 

Blackburn Rovers, the easiest job in football. Fuck that.

The 14 leads we've held onto suggests otherwise.

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

 

It's never been a lack of fight this season, it's a lack of ability to put the ball in the back of the net (with maybe one semi-decent attacking player on the bench to bring on to change things).

Seriously? Ryan Ledson put one tackle in and the soft lads didn't want to know. I think most of us can list the games where we were bullied and outfought too. Reading, Luton, Sheff Utd, Wigan, Cardiff, Burnley, Preston. There are more.

Yeah, there have been games where we have missed good chances, like against Rotherham, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lack of fight in this side, as has been displayed in numerous games. Go a goal down and it's game over, that only points to one thing.

[booth]

19 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

Seriously? Ryan Ledson put one tackle in and the soft lads didn't want to know. I think most of us can list the games where we were bullied and outfought too. Reading, Luton, Sheff Utd, Wigan, Cardiff, Burnley, Preston. There are more.

Yeah, there have been games where we have missed good chances, like against Rotherham, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lack of fight in this side, as has been displayed in numerous games. Go a goal down and it's game over, that only points to one thing.

Rovers have been inconsistent since they returned to the Championship so it's nothing new.

Let's be honest, Mowbray created and maintained a team of bottlers. He used to talk about them like they were babies.

A big reason for not being able to get back into games is the lack of goals. It must be disheartening for players to start games knowing that the likes of Vale and Gallagher are up front. Then you go a goal down and it's twice as difficult. Not surprising that heads drop.

[ben_the_beast]

4 hours ago, J*B said:

I’ve sort of put all my eggs in one basket. 

I don’t rate Waggott - at all. I don’t think he has the best interests of the club at heart and think he’s more interested in ticking boxes than ambition. So I’ve long called for change, especially on the footballing side so I was happy when Broughton was brought in.

I didn’t rate Mowbray. I thought he was an eternal loser, that was stuck in his own ways, consistently unhappy and blamed others for his own errors. So I was happy to see him leave - about 3 years too late in my opinion. 

Gregg Broughton has at least has been consistent about ‘the project’ and whilst it’s different, at least he clearly has a plan and props to him for sticking to it. His messaging hasn’t ever changed.

Broughton has signed his own manager, JDT, who clearly is aligned to ‘the project’ and has his own thoughts of how we should play football. JDT has had more success than any of our previous managers both as a player and a manager, he’s forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know.

So if I start mobbing against GB and JDT now, I’m a hypocrite! They are - in principle - exactly what I’ve asked for. So I’ll judge them after a few years if that’s the benchmark they’re being judged against.

Unlike many on here I don’t think this squad is anywhere near the level required. When the first 11 are all on form they’re a decent side, but as soon as a couple are injured or out of form we’re a lower mid table team. 

Best post in here in ages. Perfectly sums up my feelings.

Edit: to elaborate on this. I think for the first time under Venkys the word journey or project has meaning. I feel we are looking to constantly improve, not just for now but long term. Previously we've felt very reactive. The football played under Mowbray saw us get results in the first half of last season. However, it was no journey, as we switched from trying to dominate possession the year before to being a counter attacking side. 

I've no problem with a manager adapting to the players at their disposal. But considering the power Mowbray held over the club, the complete contrast in styles of play showed that there was no journey. Players weren't signed to fit a system. It was hap-hazard. Right now there are frustrations, but any players looking to be signed are with the view are with w term view

Edited January 22, 2023 by ben_the_beast

[Guest]

Well, one things is as clear as day to me - we aren't going to suddenly and radically change the way things are done at Ewood in the foreseeable future, despite having (allegedly) billionaire owners. Whatever happens to our beloved club, the process of change will be incremental rather than rapid. We, as fans, are clearly stakeholders in the process, and important ones at that - but we are merely onlookers for someone else's toy. We like to think we have a voice, some influence, some stake in the game, but sadly we have had 12 years now of being disenfranchised and disappointed, and I don't think that is ever going to change whilst the chicken chokers are the folks behind the curtain.

This season has been frustrating so far, with intermittent glimpses of a new horizon, but regular and painful reminders of the fragility of our set up. I suspect our successes have been more down to the general inconsistency of the league we are in, than to any planning and backroom guile on our part. However, should we mirror the form of the first half of the season with a similar pattern in the second, we will by definition finish in the top 6 - which in itself will be a significant achievement. Most us doubt the likelihood of that happening though, because guess what- we have seen it all before!

If we recruit half well in this window, then perhaps there is a chance we might not spiral downwards to doom and gloom - after all, Dacky seems back in full mojo, and we've broken the hoodoo of never seeing out games for a draw. Now if someone in the dressing room could just check before kick off that BBD has got his boots on the right feet and not laced on backwards, perhaps we might even start scoring for fun again, and then who knows what might happen eh?

COYB! 

[BankEnd Rover]

Just seen a post on the Watford Forum…They’re saying the deal for Porteous is done and he’s defiantly going there. Would make sense & would be worrying now we have Hyam out & Ayala suspended.

[Mattyblue]

To be fair Ayala will only miss the cup tie (which he probably wouldn’t have started anyway).

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

10 hours ago, J*B said:

I’ve sort of put all my eggs in one basket. 

I don’t rate Waggott - at all. I don’t think he has the best interests of the club at heart and think he’s more interested in ticking boxes than ambition. So I’ve long called for change, especially on the footballing side so I was happy when Broughton was brought in.

I didn’t rate Mowbray. I thought he was an eternal loser, that was stuck in his own ways, consistently unhappy and blamed others for his own errors. So I was happy to see him leave - about 3 years too late in my opinion. 

Gregg Broughton has at least has been consistent about ‘the project’ and whilst it’s different, at least he clearly has a plan and props to him for sticking to it. His messaging hasn’t ever changed.

Broughton has signed his own manager, JDT, who clearly is aligned to ‘the project’ and has his own thoughts of how we should play football. JDT has had more success than any of our previous managers both as a player and a manager, he’s forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know.

So if I start mobbing against GB and JDT now, I’m a hypocrite! They are - in principle - exactly what I’ve asked for. So I’ll judge them after a few years if that’s the benchmark they’re being judged against.

Unlike many on here I don’t think this squad is anywhere near the level required. When the first 11 are all on form they’re a decent side, but as soon as a couple are injured or out of form we’re a lower mid table team. 

Is the 'project' is to constantly give game time to young players, who clearly aren't at the level required  - purely to add value? 

If it is (and this has been the mantra trotted out so far), then I don't see how the squad will ever get to the required level you seek.

Now throw in our supposed low wage structure, where we constantly 'miss out' on targets and can't retain established players.  Then we have the inability to cash in on any of said established players.   

I know the core of this problem  comes from above but Broughton /JDT are selling it. 

Our squad is weak. It relies on the academy to pad out half the squad. 

To top it off, the brand of football is turgid. 

 

Any slight possibility of going up due to league position and they should break the bank for 3-4 high quality  loans and go for it.  

Even if the following season is immediate relegation, the money received would make a long term project more realistic.  

 

[BankEnd Rover]

Just thinking now. Looks like the gelhardt saga isn’t closed yet. Looks like Leeds still haven’t decided.

Would it be worth having both Undaz & Gelhardt?  I presume Gelhardt plays just behind a number 9…Feel as if Gelhardt would benefit us massively. Just because of his pace.

[Oldgregg86]

If jack vale plays 200 games to add value to the squad what would he be worth . 500 grand, a million. What did we sell nuttall for ?

Surly there has to be some actual potential resale value worth investing so much game time in to make it worthwhile. He’s 22 now ffs

[joey_big_nose]

8 hours ago, booth said:

Based on what I've seen before JDT arrived, a lot of players don't feel that next weeks match is important anyway. If I know it, then he will by now.

I can only imagine JDT walked through the door, had a cursory glance at what he had to work with and thought, there's no way I can work with this lot right now, I don't want the fans thinking I'm a magician. So hence the "project" was born. And if everyone's honest with themselves, before the season started they felt exactly the same. I expected mid table at best with those players. Too many bottlers, passengers and kids.

The big problem with the "project", and something that Waggott should have made them aware of before they started making it public, is that we've had years of Tony Mowbray talking about journeys. It's frustrating to now be back to square one, but we all knew it at the end of last season before JDT arrived.

I've found JDT to be frustrating at times, but I've also seen some signs that with better players we could have a decent team. It's difficult to judge him with this squad, as I've seen them frustrate and disappoint a long time before JDT turned up.

Weird that we've brought in a manager that wants to play a certain way but don't have the budget to support it though.

JDT's took the job, so obviously subscribes to the idea that you can build a successful team without big investment as that was the brief, and he would have had other opportunities if he wasn't on board.

Also people are saying the players aren't good enough, but we've spent the majority of the current and last couple of seasons in the top six. So while I guess its possible to ague it's been a bit fortunate (but for two seasons in a row under two different managers?) it seems reasonable to say the players are broadly there or thereabouts. Obviously we need additions - especially at striker - but it doesn't seem like a total overhaul.

[Mattyblue]

Indeed Joey, outside the parachute clubs there is very little between the whole league - Luton and Millwall a fine example. So yes our players may be ‘bang average’ but so are the rest of the division’s…

[joey_big_nose]

6 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Is the 'project' is to constantly give game time to young players, who clearly aren't at the level required  - purely to add value? 

Yeah that is it really... but instead of "clearly not ready" the idea is that as they get game time they will improve. Agree Jury is out on this theory as Scott Wharton has gone backwards, and theres been no real recent discernible improvement from Buckley, Garrett, Vale, Dolan etc. But this is the direction of travel, so we will see how it works over a longer time fram.

What I am a bit confused by is why many are so keen to sign "experienced players", how many of them over the last 10 years have been better than the players we have now? If I look across the last 10 years of experienced signings theres only really a handful Id choose us to sign now -  Gestede, Rhodes (not that we'd have the money at the moment), Josh King, Scott Dann (again would we have the money?), Graham (would be absolutely perfect for us now). 

We have however signed loads and loads of "experienced" players not any better than we have now (Etuhu, Murphy, Evans, Smallwood, Bennett etc etc)

I don't really think singing experienced players will necessarily solve  our problems. 

[Waggy76]

26 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Just seen a post on the Watford Forum…They’re saying the deal for Porteous is done and he’s defiantly going there. Would make sense & would be worrying now we have Hyam out & Ayala suspended.

Should that really surprise anyone ??

We will have put in a very low bid , knowing full well it will be rejected, then the next line is we can't afford him...Mowbrayesque  

Edited January 22, 2023 by Waggy76

[BankEnd Rover]

We need to sign a ball carrier, similar to a Rothwell type, a number 9 & a pacy winger…

[BankEnd Rover]

1 minute ago, Waggy76 said:

Should that really surprise anyone ??

We will have put in a very low bid , knowing full well it will be rejected, then the next line is we can't afford him...Mowbrayesque  

Like the Anel situation….We probably were at the front of the cue with regards to interest. It only takes a Sheff United, Watford, Boro to come in and offer an extra 25% wage increase - No brainer but not sure why we didn’t offer a pre-contractual agreement? Like Diaz is supposedly doing…Not sure.

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[Mattyblue]

9 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah that is it really... but instead of "clearly not ready" the idea is that as they get game time they will improve. Agree Jury is out on this theory as Scott Wharton has gone backwards, and theres been no real recent discernible improvement from Buckley, Garrett, Vale, Dolan etc. But this is the direction of travel, so we will see how it works over a longer time fram.

What I am a bit confused by is why many are so keen to sign "experienced players", how many of them over the last 10 years have been better than the players we have now? If I look across the last 10 years of experienced signings theres only really a handful Id choose us to sign now -  Gestede, Rhodes (not that we'd have the money at the moment), Josh King, Scott Dann (again would we have the money?), Graham (would be absolutely perfect for us now). 

We have however signed loads and loads of "experienced" players not any better than we have now (Etuhu, Murphy, Evans, Smallwood, Bennett etc etc)

I don't really think singing experienced players will necessarily solve  our problems. 

Our problem is we don’t have the budget for ‘quality’ experienced players.

*Quality* experienced players can be game changers in a promotion season. 91/92 - Mike Newell, bringing back Colin Hendry, Speedie, Cowans. 2000/01 Hignett, Mark Hughes, Berg, Brad, Berkovic. 

Modern day BRFC it is usually has beens like Bradley Johnson.

 

[chaddyrovers]

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont think they are writing off the season, I believe that is a few peoples interpretations that I wouldnt agree with either in terms of that I dont think that is the actual truth based on how we have operated and also it would be a stupid idea anyway.

Equally, I have never suggested that they should go hell for leather either. My suggestion would have been to sell Brereton and reinvest which does in particular benefit the long term from next season and beyond. But equally it seems that we want to be active agan in the loan market, I agree that we should try and improve specifically to push for the top 6 (I dont think we will get there but we have to try) and that could be a responsible and cheap way to add some quality only for this season. But again that doesnt fit this IMO misguided assumption that the focus is on next season.

The key is always to have an eye on both this season and the future simultaneously. A radical approach to either write a season off or conversely to go "hell for leather" (which IMO is what we have done with Brereton and that will restrict us going forward) only looks at one of these which would be crazy.

we can't sell BBD if he has agreed a pre contract can we? 

1 hour ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Just seen a post on the Watford Forum…They’re saying the deal for Porteous is done and he’s defiantly going there. Would make sense & would be worrying now we have Hyam out & Ayala suspended.

Given that he is playing for Hibs today would suggested he hasn't decide anything yet and why would that buying club allow him to play for Hibs today if terms were agreed?

56 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Should that really surprise anyone ??

We will have put in a very low bid , knowing full well it will be rejected, then the next line is we can't afford him...Mowbrayesque  

Its seems that we had our bid accept and we had Porteous for talks. JDT was talking about him at Thursday press conference which is strange for him to talk so openness about a signing. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

9 hours ago, booth said:

A big reason for not being able to get back into games is the lack of goals.

Exactly this IMO. I don't think it's a lack of fight. They've shown plenty fight in defending leads, I think the reason we haven't won a point after going behind is almost entirely down to the way we play and the personnel we have at the club. 

It will be interesting to see this month and in the summer what type of forwards GB/JDT brings to the club. It's encouraging he appears to want to sign a proper No.9 (I presume that is what Undav is). I'm also hoping he either gives Markanday and Dolan more minutes, but if he doesn't think they're good enough that he finds players in that mould. 

[Tugayisgod]

1 hour ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Just seen a post on the Watford Forum…They’re saying the deal for Porteous is done and he’s defiantly going there. Would make sense & would be worrying now we have Hyam out & Ayala suspended.

Think Ayala will only miss the cup match? Also hope Hyams a quick healer. Hardly ever injured so never know. I also think the Watford fans have as much idea as we do about what's going on!

Just a thought, maybe Rovers looking at 2 strikers in Geldhart and Undav,, as Geldhart to Wigan not as done as assumed? 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Tugayisgod

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah that is it really... but instead of "clearly not ready" the idea is that as they get game time they will improve. Agree Jury is out on this theory as Scott Wharton has gone backwards, and theres been no real recent discernible improvement from Buckley, Garrett, Vale, Dolan etc. But this is the direction of travel, so we will see how it works over a longer time fram.

What I am a bit confused by is why many are so keen to sign "experienced players", how many of them over the last 10 years have been better than the players we have now? If I look across the last 10 years of experienced signings theres only really a handful Id choose us to sign now -  Gestede, Rhodes (not that we'd have the money at the moment), Josh King, Scott Dann (again would we have the money?), Graham (would be absolutely perfect for us now). 

We have however signed loads and loads of "experienced" players not any better than we have now (Etuhu, Murphy, Evans, Smallwood, Bennett etc etc)

I don't really think singing experienced players will necessarily solve  our problems. 

Nothing in football is straightforward 80% of it is the aligning if the stars.  Certain managers are shocking at one club and can do no wrong at another.  Similar with a lot of players.

Developing kids instead of washed up old pros -not a problem with that at all. There needs to be an element of short termism though.  

Signing loan players in summer is frustrating and we've done it way  too much over the last 5 years. 

Mid table at this stage of the season,  carry on as you were. 

However,  

We have 3 loan slots. We have more really -as you could argue Mola not being in the squad is no loss. 

We are -by luck or good judgement-  in the playoffs. 

 

This is where paying hefty loan fees (like we did for Tosin, Elliott etc)  should be utilised.  

3-4 quality prem fringe players on loan till summer could keep us in the playoffs and give us the best chance of going up. 

Nobody we can afford to 'buy' now, will have much impact.  They will be more Eduns or Pickerings. 

Undav sounds like one who may make a difference -   2 or 3 more like that. 

They wouldn't be cheap  but surely a risk worth taking? 

You'd think this would have been a lesson learnt from last year. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Wing Wizard Windy Miller