January Transfer Window.

[wilsdenrover]

19 minutes ago, 1874 said:

There was no obligation to buy if we stayed under EFL regulations

It’s the fact that there is any obligation to buy that triggers the requirement to submit the contract 

I say fact, I mean my reading of the regulation - I may be wrong!

Edited February 3, 2023 by wilsdenrover
Second paragraph added

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Grabban or Martin would be desperate and scraping the barrel, better than the useless Vale though. Surely youd prefer Vale to play?

We need another striker in just in case we pick up injuries or suspension. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont get how you still have total, 100% faith in Broughton. Even if you was unsure of him at this stage and unsure of how it will go, that would be balanced. Disappointing transfer windows overall thus far.

I have given you my opinion on Broughton. I don't know why you struggled to accept my viewpoint 

47 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Yep. I was and was interested to see your take after Broughton’s interview.

And what your opinion on my view on Broughton's interview? 

47 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Not for a long time, but I’ve worked nights in the past. I’d always struggle with my sleep patterns so you have my sympathy.

I enjoyed working nights. 

[1874]

30 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

It’s the fact that there is any obligation to buy that triggers the requirement to submit the contract 

I say fact, I mean my reading of the regulation - I may be wrong!

You're probably right but allegedly rhe rejection was based on what happened if we stayed under EFL regulations and were relegated and in that case there was never an obligation to buy

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Grabban or Martin would be desperate and scraping the barrel, better than the useless Vale though. Surely youd prefer Vale to play?

I dont get how you still have total, 100% faith in Broughton. Even if you was unsure of him at this stage and unsure of how it will go, that would be balanced. Disappointing transfer windows overall thus far.

I don’t have 100% faith in myself yet alone anyone else!

[wilsdenrover]

9 minutes ago, 1874 said:

You're probably right but allegedly rhe rejection was based on what happened if we stayed under EFL regulations and were relegated and in that case there was never an obligation to buy

I don’t understand that either, a contract only has to say what conditions it has, not those that it doesn’t.

The club said what would happen if we were promoted, allegedly they asked what would happen if we were relegated - why not ask what would happen if neither was to happen as well??

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[tomphil]

Are they not just asking if there was a relegation clause in his wages as well ?

Perfectly entitled to do that in regards to a club who have been in some sort of embargo twice in the last 8 years.

[SBlue]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Are they not just asking if there was a relegation clause in his wages as well ?

Perfectly entitled to do that in regards to a club who have been in some sort of embargo twice in the last 8 years.

Fair point.

Did we fully flesh out what the contract situation looked like after May and beyond in all the relevant scenarios? 
 

Can’t fax the back of a fag packet.

[yankfan]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Throughout this debacle I have been struggling with Rovers going into a deal with wages at 45k++ and a commitment to pay 10 million if promotion is achieved, for a player obviously deemed not of PL level by Forest.

We failed throughout the window to sign a striker, even as intimated by GB on the final day of the window, to make a promotion push more viable.

The cynic in me thinks this, LOB, was a deal to miss.

Surely the wage is at worst a few month and at best affordable and worth the cost if promotion is the outcome. 

[SBlue]

To elaborate: in the highly hypothetical scenario we did go up, then signed him on a PL contract for 3 years… but then came back down - we’d be under the jurisdiction of the EFL again.
 

Did we explain to them (or even know ourselves) what we intended to pay him and what his contract would look like after those two seasons? What about if we double dropped?

 

It’s a highly complicated signing with all these clauses.

With the last minute nature of it (and the personnel we have in place) I’m not wholly confident we’d have been on top of the legals at any point in the process.

 

 

 

”If we were relegated” is a nice way to dance around these questions too.

Edited February 4, 2023 by S8 & Blue

[Atko's Engine]

3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

There aren't any? As far as I'm aware. No quotas on foreign players, but you need at least 8 homegrown players or you lose a squad spot for each one you don't have (ie, you can normally register 25 players but if only 7 are homegrown you can only register 24).

You actually understood what I typed? It looks like I was drunk when I did it, but I wasn't unfortunately!!

But you're right, it's irrelevant information whether correctly completed or not, so ought not to be a bar to registration. 

[bluebruce]

58 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

To elaborate: in the highly hypothetical scenario we did go up, then signed him on a PL contract for 3 years… but then came back down - we’d be under the jurisdiction of the EFL again.

Did we explain to them (or even know ourselves) what we intended to pay him and what his contract would look like after those two seasons? What about if we double dropped?

Personally I'm not sure why we didn't insert a clause specifying what we would do if we got promoted but the player showed up to the celebrations in ripped jeans, if we didn't go up but Steve Waggott's shares in Tesco rose by 23.42 percent, or if we got relegated but the star Betelgeuse went supernova.

Frankly, I think it's a dereliction of duty for the EFL to not ask questions like these.

(On a more serious note, who gives a fuck if we went up, signed a player on 65k p/w then got relegated? We'd have £170 fucking million in the coffers!)

[lraC]

1 hour ago, wilsdenrover said:

I don’t understand that either, a contract only has to say what conditions it has, not those that it doesn’t.

The club said what would happen if we were promoted, allegedly they asked what would happen if we were relegated - why not ask what would happen if neither was to happen as well??

 

 

Or if O’Brien called Broughton a twit and got sacked? All hypothetical. My finger hovered over the A when I wrote twit. 

[SBlue]

28 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Personally I'm not sure why we didn't insert a clause specifying what we would do if we got promoted but the player showed up to the celebrations in ripped jeans, if we didn't go up but Steve Waggott's shares in Tesco rose by 23.42 percent, or if we got relegated but the star Betelgeuse went supernova.

Frankly, I think it's a dereliction of duty for the EFL to not ask questions like these.

(On a more serious note, who gives a fuck if we went up, signed a player on 65k p/w then got relegated? We'd have £170 fucking million in the coffers!)

I’d give a fuck. No relegation clauses are a fast track to Portsmouth-ville. Or worse.

[bluebruce]

23 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’d give a fuck. No relegation clauses are a fast track to Portsmouth-ville. Or worse.

If you do them club-wide, sure. On one player? Nah not so much. It would be a drop in the ocean, and absolutely isn't worth the EFL scrutinising the deal. Assuming this is what's even meant by this relegation clause speculation, and assuming there is anything in what Nicko said in the first place.

[SBlue]

12 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

If you do them club-wide, sure. On one player? Nah not so much. It would be a drop in the ocean, and absolutely isn't worth the EFL scrutinising the deal. Assuming this is what's even meant by this relegation clause speculation, and assuming there is anything in what Nicko said in the first place.

Look I’m just spitballing the hypotheticals, I’ve no idea what’s gone on, how it all works or how on top of the contract situation we actually were.

But if the question was - “It says here lads that you could be in League One having committed over 50% of your gate receipts to a single midfielder, sure that’s right?” then I’m bloody glad someone was asking.

It would fuck the whole wage structure and cripple the club etc etc etc

There‘s obviously some things that needed clearing up in the obligatory contract.

Perhaps we have the necessary foresight and right kind of professionals to broker that kind of deal.

Maybe the EFL have just saved our arses.

Doubt we’ll ever know. 
 

If pushed I could take a guess.

 

 

edit- reminder I’ve pulled this scenario out of my arse. Just trying to make sense of it.

Edited February 4, 2023 by S8 & Blue

[Seedstral]

5 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

With it being a late transfer did Rovers use the "deal sheet" approach or try and rush everything through before 11pm.

The deal sheet would have provided a further 2 hours in which to submit all other requirements 

The deal sheet is a simple form which even the likes of Sylvester could fill in.

I'm sure it was reported on deadline day that the deal sheet only applied to the Premier League clubs so it wouldn't have been an option for anyone in the Football League to use

[bluebruce]

27 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Look I’m just spitballing the hypotheticals, I’ve no idea what’s gone on, how it all works or how on top of the contract situation we actually were.

But if the question was - “It says here lads that you could be in League One having committed over 50% of your gate receipts to a single midfielder, sure that’s right?” then I’m bloody glad someone was asking.

It would fuck the whole wage structure and cripple the club etc etc etc

There‘s obviously some things that needed clearing up in the obligatory contract.

Perhaps we have the necessary foresight and right kind of professionals to broker that kind of deal.

Maybe the EFL have just saved our arses.

Doubt we’ll ever know. 
 

If pushed I could take a guess.

 

 

edit- reminder I’ve pulled this scenario out of my arse. Just trying to make sense of it.

It still wouldn't matter, not really. Again, promotion to the Premiership is worth a bare minimum of 170 million. Let's even assume we were giving him a pay rise, up to 80k p/w, on a 4 year deal and paying 10 mill as reported. That's a total of £26 million over the contract length (assuming we couldn't sell him on before or after relegation to League One, if we did indeed suffer successive relegations). Let's even call it £30 mill with bonuses. It would be how or even if we spent the remaining 140 million that would or wouldn't be an issue.

It's not the league's duty to poke holes in a transfer that couldn't possibly cripple us in and of itself. I'm not saying it isn't the sort of thing our people should be putting into contracts though, it is.

[AllRoverAsia]

50 minutes ago, Seedstral said:

I'm sure it was reported on deadline day that the deal sheet only applied to the Premier League clubs so it wouldn't have been an option for anyone in the Football League to use

I still think the deal sheet principle applies to the EFL too.

It's all processes online.

See 44.5 onwards

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/section-6---players/

[RevidgeBlue]

5 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

"It will be inexcusable if the lot of them aren't sacked after this just as it's inexcusable that the useless and devious Waggott."

 

Not the only one on the sauce.

Morning Paul. I'm glad you're happy with the situation and content that the Club have done all they can. 

However I'm afraid I have some really bad news for you. You can't just sign anyone whenever you want any more, they introduced something called "a transfer window" about twenty years ago now in 2002-3. As the name suggests it's called a "window" because at some point it shuts so that Clubs have a degree of certainty for large parts of the season and aren't looking over their shoulders worried that their best players are going to get poached twenty four hours a day, three hundred and sixty five days a year.

As such you have to meet a deadline for your transfer business before the window shuts and it seems they even expect you to file your paperwork correctly as well!

I know. Crazy eh? Who'd have ever thought it? Still there you go!

[Guest]

We needed a striker. We tried to sign a midfielder who can't get a job with his current employer.

We needed a striker. We tried to sign a baby footballer from a local near amateur outfit.

We needed a striker. We squandered an entire transfer window AND the weeks and weeks prior to it that were available for planning and targeting players that could fit the awkward (but surely not impossible) circumstances the club has to work under. 

We needed a striker.

We got a jaded cast off winger from a relegation rival.

We needed  a striker. 

We had the loss of our best striker for nothing confirmed by the club he is joining for free in the summer.

WE NEEDED A STRIKER.

WE GOT SHAFTED BY THESE LYING INCOMPETENT SMUG OVERPAID ARROGANT WANKERS WHO CARE NOTHING FOR THE CLUB THAT YOU AND I ....love.

Venues and their gobshite lackeys OUT!!

[RevidgeBlue]

*BREAKING NEWS*

Secret transcript obtained of meeting at Ewood following January transfer window:

GB: (Rushes into SW's office looking flustered) "Steve, Steve- the fans are revolting!

SW: I know, and they're not very happy either! The bloody lengths you have to go to to earn £300k p.a. these days. It's almost like they expect us to comply with the regulations or something. I might have to tempt Andy Cole out of retirement and go back to being an agent.

GB: "I've never seen them like this before. They didn't even bat an eyelid when I paid £1.8m plus add ons for Sammy Szmodics and £10kp.w. for George Hirst on loan!

SW: " Looks like they didn't buy our sob story about it being the EFL's fault for being pedantic. I knew I should never have asked the dinner lady to draft the official Club statement - she didn't strike the right note at all and couldn't even get it to read properly in plain English.

GB: "Whatever shall we do Steve?"

SW: "Hmmm......this isnt good, for once there's been such a commotion about it the owners might even notice. I'll tell you what, one of us will have to go in front of the cameras, look suitably apologetic and pretend to take the blame for it. Most of the supporters will believe it and it'll be next week's chip paper. I'll toss you for it." (Produces double headed coin)

GB:"Tails"

SW: Bad luck Greg. Off you go. Don't forget to mention the word "process" in every other sentence. If you mention it often enough it'll fool people into thinking we have an actual plan and know what we're doing. I'll also leak a few select details to Nixon. Won't make a blind bit of difference to err....the "appeal" of course (both chuckle heartily) but at least he can publish to make it look like we've been hard done by. Of course I won't tell him the full tale.

GB: "Genius Steve! BTW how does this look?." (Undo's a few buttons in an attempt to look dishevelled and puts on distraught expression.

SW: "Brilliant Greg! Oscar worthy! You should have been an actor.

GB: "Maybe I should Steve. After all we've just seen I can't conduct transfer business! (Both laugh uproariously as Greg exits)

The next day........

(GB's mobile rings)

SW: "See, I told you it would work!"

 

[wilsdenrover]

I’m wondering if the legal advice sought was over the wording of 47.3.1 of the regulations which includes supplying ‘any contract which it proposes to enter into which gives the club…any rights to the employment of the player…’

I wonder if they didn’t know if *any contract* rather than *the contract* meant it only needed to be provided if it had already been agreed.

Or it could be *proposes to enter into* rather than *has entered into * raised the same question. 

If either of those were the case I’m not sure how they thought you could sign an *obligation* to buy with Forest if the player wasn’t also obliged to sign with us(ie contract agreed)

It could also be that the guidance for this section only confirms options to buy (which I’d suggest is in essence just agreeing a fee in advance)  are allowed in loan agreements but is silent on allowing an obligation to buy.

I thought the Brereton deal had been an obligation to buy though, was that actually confirmed by anyone?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[wilsdenrover]

3 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Look I’m just spitballing the hypotheticals, I’ve no idea what’s gone on, how it all works or how on top of the contract situation we actually were.

But if the question was - “It says here lads that you could be in League One having committed over 50% of your gate receipts to a single midfielder, sure that’s right?” then I’m bloody glad someone was asking.

It would fuck the whole wage structure and cripple the club etc etc etc

There‘s obviously some things that needed clearing up in the obligatory contract.

Perhaps we have the necessary foresight and right kind of professionals to broker that kind of deal.

Maybe the EFL have just saved our arses.

Doubt we’ll ever know. 
 

If pushed I could take a guess.

 

 

edit- reminder I’ve pulled this scenario out of my arse. Just trying to make sense of it.

I’d presume the EFL would only check the legality of the contract and not whether we could afford to meet its obligations.

I might well be wrong though!

[RoversTilliDie]

10 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I wouldn't criticise Broughton on here, you'd never get a transfer deal done - the EFL wouldn't stand for such tardiness.  

We were in the Top 6 for more than half the season with a combination of Gallagher / Vale / Dolan / Szmodics (at times) leading the line. It's not a stretch to say that a good Championship CF (which none of those listed above are) would have a very positive impact on our results. 

Before you ask, no I don't know who that player is because it's not my job to find him - but someone like Cameron Archer or Keinan Davis would have made a world of difference. 

I don't think were far away from a serious top 6 challenge, I have seen this team when their at full strength play mid table premier standard football earlier in the season in patches, thats the downer patches you need consistency to go places. We just need to strengthen the team with a few new additions. When we get injuries we are thread bare and struggle.

[47er]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

We did though? Undav and Kone.

Undav wouldn't come! Clubs agreed terms, player said "NO". Can't see this as a near miss.

Don't know much about the Kone attempt but,bottom line, we failed to sign him or any other striker which we desperately need. We had months to plan this.