January Transfer Window.

[RevidgeBlue]

35 minutes ago, arbitro said:

If O'Brien is on a reported £45k and we had him for five months it would have cost around £900k in wages alone if the reports of us paying his full wage are true.

Broughton's halo is beginning to slip.

Nothing about the Club's version of events surrounding this sorry episode adds up. I got taken to task by m'learned friend Atko for suggesting the failures might have been deliberate but even if he had been directly ordered to sanction this deal by the owners I can't imagine any scenario in which Waggott would have been happy with authorising that kind of expenditure given the importance he has always recently placed on not breaking the wage structure and the implications it might have had for him personally in meeting any costs targets etc.

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

This suggests that “the project” is a cost cutting one. He’s again played a blinder here to control the narrative - a couple of million more would risk the future of the club, when in reality it’s just another month or two’s standard losses. The “if it wasn’t for Venky’s we’d do a Bury” lot will love this.

Obviously our finances have spiralled out of control since the minute Venky’s came along, and attempts to rectify this are long overdue. But it seems that there will be no gambles or calculated risks, this reads like promotion isn’t wanted until the finances are dealt with, and it could be a long time before we get a glimmer like this again. Of course the irony there is a promotion would solve all the money issues and then some.

 

41 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I wouldn't get yourself too bogged down in technicalities - you're falling into exactly the trap the Club want you to of thinking this was an immensely complex deal that was practically impossible to pull off. At the end of the day this was a loan until the end of the season with an option to purchase for £10m if we got promoted. How difficult or unusual can that be?

IF the EFL wanted to know what the script was if we were promoted then immediately relegated then I can't see why that would have been so difficult for Rovers to deal with either. You'd imagine  that they'd have been through all that with O Brien's agent, it's difficult to imagine he would have allowed his client to join without knowing what sort of money he'd be on if we were promoted and what the financial implications would be for him if we were relegated.

I was just postulating.

Even if it was these technicalities  (or others) - they should already have had the answers.

If it was my job, and trust me you wouldn’t want it to be!, I would have long since gone through all the transfer regulations, written down any queries I had, and clarified them with the EFL so that I knew exactly what I would have to do in any given transfer situation.

I think it’s called preparation - or just plain doing you’re job properly.

I don’t see why the EFL would have asked about the immediate relegation issue, but like you say surely that information should already have been to hand.

I personally, don’t see any complications beyond  possibly the obligation vs option to buy thing I mentioned earlier - but as mentioned above I’d have clarified that point with the EFL before it became a ‘live’ issue

Miller11 - I was replying to Revidge and have managed to quote you by accident

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by wilsdenrover
Added last sentence

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, wilsdenrover said:

 

I was just postulating.

Even if it was these technicalities  (or others) - they should already have had the answers.

If it was my job, and trust me you wouldn’t want it to be!, I would have long since gone through all the transfer regulations, written down any queries I had, and clarified them with the EFL so that I knew exactly what I would have to do in any given transfer situation.

I think it’s called preparation - or just plain doing you’re job properly.

I don’t see why the EFL would have asked about the immediate relegation issue, but like you say surely that information should already have been to hand.

I personally, don’t see any complications beyond  possibly the obligation vs option to buy thing I mentioned earlier - but as mentioned above I’d have clarified that point with the EFL before it became a ‘live’ issue

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely.  100% agree.

If there was anything whatsoever to do with the deal that they were unsure about or hadn't come across before, then they should have checked with the EFL earlier in the day.

Unless of course they didn't really want the deal to go through, but at the same time wanted to create the illusion they were doing something.

[wilsdenrover]

22 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I keep going back to read Cooper's comments.

Cooper said: “It wasn’t us, that’s for sure .... It won’t take a genius to work out what’s happened"

GB has promised full disclosure of all internal and alleged external factors that scuttled the deal once the current appeal verdict is known. We shall see ..... Not long to wait.

I’m glad it won’t take a genius or the club will never work it out…

[wilsdenrover]

21 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Absolutely.  100% agree.

If there was anything whatsoever to do with the deal that they were unsure about or hadn't come across before, then they should have checked with the EFL earlier in the day.

Unless of course they didn't really want the deal to go through, but at the same time wanted to create the illusion they were doing something.

I think any point on the day was too late.

Not having come across a situation before doesn’t mean you shouldn’t already know how to deal with it should it arise. 

That’s unless it’s something very niche that you couldn’t possibly of thought of beforehand - and this certainly isn’t one of those 

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail

Edited to add - Broughton said they’d been talking to O’Brien’s representatives for six weeks…

Edited February 4, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

This suggests that “the project” is a cost cutting one. He’s again played a blinder here to control the narrative - a couple of million more would risk the future of the club, when in reality it’s just another month or two’s standard losses. The “if it wasn’t for Venky’s we’d do a Bury” lot will love this.

Obviously our finances have spiralled out of control since the minute Venky’s came along, and attempts to rectify this are long overdue. But it seems that there will be no gambles or calculated risks, this reads like promotion isn’t wanted until the finances are dealt with, and it could be a long time before we get a glimmer like this again. Of course the irony there is a promotion would solve all the money issues and then some.

Again it's funny how people can interpret things so differently.

I see that quote from Broughton and think "thank God, finally there is an adult in the room that is planning the long term future of the club".

Money at this club is incredibly tight, BUT the budget is there for promotion if you manage it wisely. You just can't go wasting it on a washed up Downing or an unwarranted extension for Gallagher.

[rigger]

25 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He managed to swerve the sword.

I would have preferred Broughton to have said:- Ultimately it is my responsibility, but I shall find out who made any mistakes and see that they are removed from the club. Even if that means going direct to the owners. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by rigger

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

33 minutes ago, den said:

maybe more along the lines of “We’ll just keep plodding along the same old route. “.

No real ambition. Just keep turning up.

And that in the cold light of day is the reality we face as supporters of this once great Club.

A slow death....even though we are owned by Billionares.Try and figure it all out.

Edited February 4, 2023 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Exiled_Rover]

3 minutes ago, rigger said:

I would have preferred Broughton to have said:- Ultimately it is my responsibility, but I shall find out who made any mistakes and see that they are removed from the club. Even if that means going direct to the owners. 

I imagine he doesn't have the authority to replace the Club Secretary or the CEO so I'd rather he just stuck to the facts tbh.

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

This suggests that “the project” is a cost cutting one. He’s again played a blinder here to control the narrative - a couple of million more would risk the future of the club, when in reality it’s just another month or two’s standard losses. The “if it wasn’t for Venky’s we’d do a Bury” lot will love this.

Obviously our finances have spiralled out of control since the minute Venky’s came along, and attempts to rectify this are long overdue. But it seems that there will be no gambles or calculated risks, this reads like promotion isn’t wanted until the finances are dealt with, and it could be a long time before we get a glimmer like this again. Of course the irony there is a promotion would solve all the money issues and then some.

Pretty pathetic quotes.  We don't want promotion as it would risk the future of the club....duhhhhh!!

[Exiled_Rover]

1 minute ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

And that in the cold light of day is the reality we face as supporters of this once great Club.

A slow death.

I genuinely don't understand the backlash to this particular transfer window / fuck up.

Don't get me wrong, it's bad, but anyone with eyes can see that this club has been on life support for a decade. 

We had 9 Academy graduates in the starting 11 and on the bench against Birmingham in the FA Cup at Ewood. Find me another Championship club that does that - without the Academy we'd be in League 2 / liquidated already.

[roverandout]

38 minutes ago, den said:

I read that like you as well.

maybe more along the lines of “We’ll just keep plodding along the same old route. “.

No real ambition. Just keep turning up. 
 

What would Jack Walker have thought about that?

Jack would have done this

[roverandout]

12 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Again it's funny how people can interpret things so differently.

I see that quote from Broughton and think "thank God, finally there is an adult in the room that is planning the long term future of the club".

Money at this club is incredibly tight, BUT the budget is there for promotion if you manage it wisely. You just can't go wasting it on a washed up Downing or an unwarranted extension for Gallagher.

That would only make sense if the club had a history of spending beyond its means. When was the last time rovers splashed out any serious money?

[Mattyblue]

4 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I genuinely don't understand the backlash to this particular transfer window / fuck up.

Don't get me wrong, it's bad, but anyone with eyes can see that this club has been on life support for a decade. 

We had 9 Academy graduates in the starting 11 and on the bench against Birmingham in the FA Cup at Ewood. Find me another Championship club that does that - without the Academy we'd be in League 2 / liquidated already.

It’s pretty simple to me as to why this has been such a severe fan backlash.

You don’t normally get an actual insight into the workings of a football club. This has been all too public and shown everybody, even the uber-positive Facebook brigade just how dysfunctional this club still is.

[Exiled_Rover]

2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

That would only make sense if the club had a history of spending beyond its means. When was the last time rovers splashed out any serious money?

We were spending 200% of our turnover on a lower mid-table side just a few years ago.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

It’s pretty simple to me as to why this has been such a severe fan backlash.

You don’t normally get an actual insight into the workings of a football club. This has been all too public and shown everybody, even the uber-positive Facebook brigade just how dysfunctional this club still is.

The year of four managers should have highlighted for even the blind that it was a shitshow at Ewood.

[JHRover]

37 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Nothing about the Club's version of events surrounding this sorry episode adds up. I got taken to task by m'learned friend Atko for suggesting the failures might have been deliberate but even if he had been directly ordered to sanction this deal by the owners I can't imagine any scenario in which Waggott would have been happy with authorising that kind of expenditure given the importance he has always recently placed on not breaking the wage structure and the implications it might have had for him personally in meeting any costs targets etc.

This is one of my theories. Broughton can claim until he is blue in the face that O'Brien wouldn't have broken the fabled 'wage structure' but I simply don't believe that. Even if he was 'only' on £30k a week at Forest and even if we were 'only' paying half of that it would still make him one of our biggest earners, placing him in similar territory to Dack and Ayala. Nothing the Club has done in the last 3-4 years suggests those sort of wages are on offer these days.

So on that basis even if we go with those low figures it is clear this would have placed strain on the wage structure. I don't think it is therefore unreasonable to suggest that either the owners, money men or Waggott intervened to stop the deal going through in time after Broughton had done the leg work in getting it all agreed. 

It certainly wouldn't be the first time that we are told money is available and business can be done, but then it doesn't actually materialise.

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Exiled_Rover said:

The year of four managers should have highlighted for even the blind that it was a shitshow at Ewood.

That was a decade ago. Most fans I speak to have had very little issue with the administration of the club for a good while now… until the past few days.

[Bohinen1983]

When do we find out the result of our appeal?

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I genuinely don't understand the backlash to this particular transfer window / fuck up.

Don't get me wrong, it's bad, but anyone with eyes can see that this club has been on life support for a decade. 

We had 9 Academy graduates in the starting 11 and on the bench against Birmingham in the FA Cup at Ewood. Find me another Championship club that does that - without the Academy we'd be in League 2 / liquidated already.

I genuinely don't understand why anyone WOULDN'T be incensed by what's happened. For me personally it's an all time low in the tenure of the current ownership to rank alongside the aborted attempt to flog off the training ground on a false premise. 

It's the fact that once again we are so obviously being lied to and taken for absolute mugs. In this case it obviously has serious adverse consequences for 3rd parties as well not just for our own football Club.

[rigger]

15 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I imagine he doesn't have the authority to replace the Club Secretary or the CEO so I'd rather he just stuck to the facts tbh.

Hence my point of going direct to the owners. If you have a problem with your boss, you go to their boss.

[roverandout]

6 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

We were spending 200% of our turnover on a lower mid-table side just a few years ago.

Doesn't that suggest we had our house in order before Broughton arrived for the last couple of years 

[tomphil]

Nobody in the last decade plus of this nightmare has ever stood up held their hands up and took responsibilty for a cock up. Got to give Broughton respect for that it's not easy sitting there knowing your fans are raging as is a lot of staff and outside the club you are a laughing stock.

The guy has owned and although it doesn't make it right it at least shows he gives a stuff unlike that slug hidden in the shadows.

A small tiny positive is he'd got this player in after clearly seeing we need more in midfield and that's his job so he's done that.It doesn't gloss over the ineptitude but hopefully they'll root that out and boot it out if it was as careless or possibly dodgy as it sounds.

[Exiled_Rover]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

That was a decade ago. Most fans I speak to have had very little issue with the administration of the club for a good while now… until the past few days.

Then most fans you speak to are fools. This hasn't been a well run club since Williams left.

[RevidgeBlue]

23 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Again it's funny how people can interpret things so differently.

I see that quote from Broughton and think "thank God, finally there is an adult in the room that is planning the long term future of the club".

Money at this club is incredibly tight, BUT the budget is there for promotion if you manage it wisely. You just can't go wasting it on a washed up Downing or an unwarranted extension for Gallagher.

So playing devil's advocate, do you think £900k in wages plus no doubt a hefty loan fee for O'Brien for 5 months would have been "managing it wisely" either?