January Transfer Window.

[booth]

42 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

The word project itself isn't fit for purpose; .Real Madrid started it years ago with their "project" to sign David Beckham, it's overused and become a cliche.  It's basically a load of grandiose management manure to make fans think they actually know what they're doing. The transfer window and botched Brereton sale demonstrate clearly that our lot don't. 

Mowbray's "project" ran its course and now we're apparently at the beginning of another project. Hurrah!. Hey folks, we have a project,  give us 5 years and after a journey to nowhere in mid-table we might be back where we started. If only we had a manager and/or management who doesn't do "projects" and we might actually get somewhere.

Vincent Kompany doesn't do projects and he's not doing too badly, despite what misleading Burnley Express headlines say

Give him our budget and idiots running the club, see how he does.

[yankfan]

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

The word project itself isn't fit for purpose; .Real Madrid started it years ago with their "project" to sign David Beckham, it's overused and become a cliche.  It's basically a load of grandiose management manure to make fans think they actually know what they're doing. The transfer window and botched Brereton sale demonstrate clearly that our lot don't. 

Mowbray's "project" ran its course and now we're apparently at the beginning of another project. Hurrah!. Hey folks, we have a project,  give us 5 years and after a journey to nowhere in mid-table we might be back where we started. If only we had a manager and/or management who doesn't do "projects" and we might actually get somewhere.

Vincent Kompany doesn't do projects and he's not doing too badly, despite what misleading Burnley Express headlines say

I much prefer journey. 

[ben_the_beast]

4 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

The word project itself isn't fit for purpose; .Real Madrid started it years ago with their "project" to sign David Beckham, it's overused and become a cliche.  It's basically a load of grandiose management manure to make fans think they actually know what they're doing. The transfer window and botched Brereton sale demonstrate clearly that our lot don't. 

Mowbray's "project" ran its course and now we're apparently at the beginning of another project. Hurrah!. Hey folks, we have a project,  give us 5 years and after a journey to nowhere in mid-table we might be back where we started. If only we had a manager and/or management who doesn't do "projects" and we might actually get somewhere.

Vincent Kompany doesn't do projects and he's not doing too badly, despite what misleading Burnley Express headlines say

The only way we'll get out of this league is through a 'project'. We're all scarred from Mowbray trotting the line out constantly, whilst season upon season, completely changing tactics, never having a balanced squad, swinging from players on high wages with experience to youth. Basically when Mowbray said project it was bullshit and he was just winging it.

I accept that getting us promoted is a project, whether we like it or not. What I want to see is consistency, smart decisions and clear progression. We've not seen this so far. Diaz being the main issue and a wasted transfer window. Broughton for me has time to implement, but a project means nothing if the actions aren't followed through on.

[roversfan99]

Mowbray could argue having had full ssasons of promotion in League 1, 15th, 11th, 15th and 8th that progress was made somewhat, as much as I am glad that he has gone. I don't really see the distinction between his journey and the project. Both are doomed to fail because of people above them. Mowbray is a half decent Championship manager, Tomasson so far likewise across the season.

A project would involve regular trading of assets and reinvestment and that doesnt happen because of the owners.

[1874]

8 hours ago, goozburger said:

Sharpe has suggested that Rovers won't go for free agents in his latest article. The appeals, of course, are also expected to fail.

Our squad size has gone from 22 to 21. The irony there is that losing Annesley and Hirst, and gaining Thomas, probably leaves is in a slightly stronger position. I thought Thomas was good against Wigan. Definitely somebody who looks to create.

I hope that list isn't the one supplied to the EFL Clinton Mola was born in London so is home grown. Daniel Ayala being Spanish isn't.

Maybe they just forgot to tick the right boxes

Edited February 9, 2023 by 1874

[1874]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray could argue having had full ssasons of promotion in League 1, 15th, 11th, 15th and 8th that progress was made somewhat, as much as I am glad that he has gone. I don't really see the distinction between his journey and the project. Both are doomed to fail because of people above them. Mowbray is a half decent Championship manager, Tomasson so far likewise across the season.

A project would involve regular trading of assets and reinvestment and that doesnt happen because of the owners.

A Journey without a destination is just wandering aimlessly. A project without a set objective is just poking around in the dark.

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, 1874 said:

I hope that list isn't the one supplied to the EFL Clinton Mola was born in London so is home grown. Daniel Ayala being Spanish isn't.

Maybe they just forgot to tick the right boxes

"Home grown" is an interesting use of this term.

Actual nationality has been adequately rebutted above.

The unwary might think it means a product of our academy.

It's obviously not that so the term maybe should be interpreted as covering players who have come through our academy system and those acquired from footballs pound Shop or loan flea market.

No it can't be that either as whilst Morton and Mola are loans so is Thomas who shows up as"Home Grown".

I most certainly wouldn't trust our admin lot in running a fruit and veg stall in old Blackburn market.

 

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

"Home grown" is an interesting use of this term.

Actual nationality has been adequately rebutted above.

The unwary might think it means a product of our academy.

It's obviously not that so the term maybe should be interpreted as covering players who have come through our academy system and those acquired from footballs pound Shop or loan flea market.

No it can't be that either as whilst Morton and Mola are loans so is Thomas who shows up as"Home Grown".

I most certainly wouldn't trust our admin lot in running a fruit and veg stall in old Blackburn market.

 

Unless they changed something about the rules, homegrown means they spent 3 years playing in England before the age of 21. I think it's from age 15. I'm not 100% sure Mola qualifies, as although he spent 5 years at Chelsea, I'm not entirely sure he was old enough when that 5 years started for it all to count. Morton definitely counts as homegrown.

The list as shown on the LT has a confusingly large gap between both sets of 'yes'. It looks like 3 are missing, but if you count the first lot down and the second lot up, you'll see it's actually just Mola and Kaminski showing as not homegrown. So presumably Mola doesn't count because he left England at age 17 I make it, which probably means he didn't get his full 3 years in after age 15. Ayala, since he moved from Sevilla to Liverpool aged 16 I think, turning 17 shortly after, will have at least 4 years in England before turning 21, maybe 5 depending on the exact, slightly weird mechanics of the cutoff points.

So yes, these rules mean an English lad who was born here and as far as I can tell, lived the first 17 years of his life here, doesn't qualify as homegrown. But a Spaniard born in Spain who possibly never set foot in England until he was nearly 17, qualifies comfortably. Yes, these rules are stupid.

The irony is if Stuttgart had loaned Mola to us last season instead, I think he would qualify now as homegrown in England. He also might qualify for it by the end of this season due to being under 21 on 1st Jan 2022 (which is how someone qualifies as currently under 21 for this season), or might not because he didn't have 3 seasons here before his 21st birthday in March 2022, I think it's the latter. But can't remember which one that cutoff point works off.

Anyway that probably explains the list, which I reckon is correct.

Edited February 9, 2023 by bluebruce

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Unless they changed something about the rules, homegrown means they spent 3 years playing in England before the age of 21. I think it's from age 15. I'm not 100% sure Mola qualifies, as although he spent 5 years at Chelsea, I'm not entirely sure he was old enough when that 5 years started for it all to count. Morton definitely counts as homegrown.

The list as shown on the LT has a confusingly large gap between both sets of 'yes'. It looks like 3 are missing, but if you count the first lot down and the second lot up, you'll see it's actually just Mola and Kaminski showing as not homegrown. So presumably Mola doesn't count because he left England at age 17 I make it, which probably means he didn't get his full 3 years in after age 15. Ayala, since he moved from Sevilla to Liverpool aged 16 I think, turning 17 shortly after, will have at least 4 years in England before turning 21, maybe 5 depending on the exact, slightly weird mechanics of the cutoff points.

So yes, these rules mean an English lad who was born here and as far as I can tell, lived the first 17 years of his life here, doesn't qualify as homegrown. But a Spaniard born in Spain who possibly never set foot in England until he was nearly 17, qualifies comfortably. Yes, these rules are stupid.

The irony is if Stuttgart had loaned Mola to us last season instead, I think he would qualify now as homegrown in England. He also might qualify for it by the end of this season due to being under 21 on 1st Jan 2022 (which is how someone qualifies as currently under 21 for this season), or might not because he didn't have 3 seasons here before his 21st birthday in March 2022, I think it's the latter. But can't remember which one that cutoff point works off.

Anyway that probably explains the list, which I reckon is correct.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I knew nothing about it before but once I grasped the basics it became clearer.

[Sweaty Gussets]

Jon Dahl Tomasson spotted at EFL ground with Blackburn Rovers boss on scouting mission - LancsLive 

Tomasson was in the stands for the Hatters' home match against Tranmere Rovers, with two players on the scouting list. Lancs Live understands Stockport's Will Collar and Tranmere's Josh Hawkes were the two players of interest.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

On 06/02/2023 at 18:31, booth said:

They'll scrap them the year we scrape into the PL, and relegated the following season. You can bet your house on it.

Fair play if you're still hanging on in there in 2037 

[Polky]

3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Unless they changed something about the rules, homegrown means they spent 3 years playing in England before the age of 21. I think it's from age 15. I'm not 100% sure Mola qualifies, as although he spent 5 years at Chelsea, I'm not entirely sure he was old enough when that 5 years started for it all to count. Morton definitely counts as homegrown.

The list as shown on the LT has a confusingly large gap between both sets of 'yes'. It looks like 3 are missing, but if you count the first lot down and the second lot up, you'll see it's actually just Mola and Kaminski showing as not homegrown. So presumably Mola doesn't count because he left England at age 17 I make it, which probably means he didn't get his full 3 years in after age 15. Ayala, since he moved from Sevilla to Liverpool aged 16 I think, turning 17 shortly after, will have at least 4 years in England before turning 21, maybe 5 depending on the exact, slightly weird mechanics of the cutoff points.

So yes, these rules mean an English lad who was born here and as far as I can tell, lived the first 17 years of his life here, doesn't qualify as homegrown. But a Spaniard born in Spain who possibly never set foot in England until he was nearly 17, qualifies comfortably. Yes, these rules are stupid.

The irony is if Stuttgart had loaned Mola to us last season instead, I think he would qualify now as homegrown in England. He also might qualify for it by the end of this season due to being under 21 on 1st Jan 2022 (which is how someone qualifies as currently under 21 for this season), or might not because he didn't have 3 seasons here before his 21st birthday in March 2022, I think it's the latter. But can't remember which one that cutoff point works off.

Anyway that probably explains the list, which I reckon is correct.

The above is correct.

Despite 49 caps for England, Eric Dier is not classed as a home-grown player. 

He came through the academy ranks of Sporting Lisbon in Portugal, so is not eligible as a home-grown player.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by BRFC_Polky

[Miller11]

19 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto Mk2 said:

Here’s where I think their thinking lies: our Academy is probably going to produce players who end up better and worth more than the kind of players we have and can currently buy. Can academy players alone get us up so we might stay up - probably not - we need better non-academy players around them than we currently have, but we can’t afford them. So we need to develop and sell one or two academy players so we can buy better non-academy players, assuming the academy pipeline can keep producing.

There’s lots of reasons how this can go wrong, but then there’s even more reasons how keep doing what we have been doing before will go wrong.

Fans want to win every game and every season to be a promotion push. But, in my sixty years supporting Rovers, we’ve won five promotions and two trophies. So what does that make the other 53 seasons? All failures? Furphy, Smith, McKay were all failures? I’d say all were hamstrung by not being able to get good money for one or two players to be able to buy several better ones. Lee did that with the Tony Field money; Kendall did it by still being one of the best midfielders in the country and finding Crawford; Dalglish did it with Jack’s money.

I’m not averse to the thinking that coming out on top of half a dozen clubs who have 5x the income requires something more than sack the manager and play Gally in the middle, but I do have big question marks over the execution, especially after this window, which looked nothing like stage 1 of a strategy being implemented,

 

Promotion wasn’t possible for a good chunk of those 53 seasons as we were in the top flight. No, the failure is Venky’s. They’ve not only overseen the worst period in the clubs history, they caused it. I know some people will say that we were worse in the 70’s, but that ignores the platform Jack gave us. Venky’s trail of destruction is like winning the lottery and a decade later ending up on the dole.

The entire reason we weren’t able to sell players ins reinvest the money is down to them. Our model falls at the first hurdle. You are absolutely right to have worries about this “projects” execution, because none of it is working either on or off the pitch.

[AllRoverAsia]

They are in a time warp, explains a lot. Easy to miss by seconds when you get the Century wrong.

"Our 1888-89 Retro Range is now back in stock at the Roverstore!

We sold out of items when we first went on sale, and with plenty of popular pieces available, you'll have to be quick before all our cult classics leave the shelves again!

One glance at the selection and the memories will come flooding back for every Rovers fan who was around for the era.

The likes of Colin Hendry, Scott Sellars and Simon Garner were all part of the team"

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2023/february/09/retro-range-back-in-stock-/

Edited February 9, 2023 by AllRoverAsia

[Sweaty Gussets]

4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

You are absolutely right to have worries about this “projects” execution, because none of it is working either on or off the pitch.

Not entirely accurate. Quite a few good young players are now tied to long term contracts. Broughton massively fucked up the transfer window, but he's done well finalising contracts with players like Phillips who looked like they were happy to leave. JDT is also introducing these young lads into the first team. 

 

[USABlue]

On 08/02/2023 at 02:48, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’d be happy if I could see some style and a coherent way of playing emerging. As it is at the moment I can’t. This season has been really poor so far.

I know right?  JDT came in with all these woderful exciting ideas.  Not passing for passing sake, (Dutch Disease) fluid constant motion front four, defence to arrack as soon as we win the ball, it all sounded so good.  We scoffed at Komoany but wow what a first rate job he's done.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

35 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Promotion wasn’t possible for a good chunk of those 53 seasons as we were in the top flight. No, the failure is Venky’s. They’ve not only overseen the worst period in the clubs history, they caused it. I know some people will say that we were worse in the 70’s, but that ignores the platform Jack gave us. Venky’s trail of destruction is like winning the lottery and a decade later ending up on the dole.

The entire reason we weren’t able to sell players ins reinvest the money is down to them. Our model falls at the first hurdle. You are absolutely right to have worries about this “projects” execution, because none of it is working either on or off the pitch.

There’s no comparison with the 1970’s and now. I never lost hope that we would be a force to be reckoned with back then.

[R0verb0y]

On 07/02/2023 at 09:22, bazza said:

Bring him home and play him up front.

That almost sounds like a line from "Les Miserables", @bazza!

[BigUts]

3 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

They are in a time warp, explains a lot. Easy to miss by seconds when you get the Century wrong.

"Our 1888-89 Retro Range is now back in stock at the Roverstore!

We sold out of items when we first went on sale, and with plenty of popular pieces available, you'll have to be quick before all our cult classics leave the shelves again!

One glance at the selection and the memories will come flooding back for every Rovers fan who was around for the era.

The likes of Colin Hendry, Scott Sellars and Simon Garner were all part of the team"

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2023/february/09/retro-range-back-in-stock-/

What chump has taken those pictures 😂

[RoversClitheroe]

3 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

They are in a time warp, explains a lot. Easy to miss by seconds when you get the Century wrong.

"Our 1888-89 Retro Range is now back in stock at the Roverstore!

We sold out of items when we first went on sale, and with plenty of popular pieces available, you'll have to be quick before all our cult classics leave the shelves again!

One glance at the selection and the memories will come flooding back for every Rovers fan who was around for the era.

The likes of Colin Hendry, Scott Sellars and Simon Garner were all part of the team"

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2023/february/09/retro-range-back-in-stock-/

They didn't even restock did they 😂

[R0verb0y]

 

On 08/02/2023 at 15:02, bluebruce said:

In fairness, Brittain replaces Nyambe although they're very different styles of player, and Hyam replaces Lenihan. There's just Rothwell from our permanent personnel who hasn't really been replaced, although Morton plays (often poorly) in the same position albeit not role. He's a downgrade but the other two aren't. Some would argue Brittain and Hyam are actually improvements on their predecessors.

Of the loanees, the only real losses were JPVH and Khadra. Although some aren't fans of Khadra. JPVH was quality, but we do have young CBs coming through. Even though they're not as good yet, it helps deal with squad depth and we're generally playing 2 at CB instead of three. Khadra, well we did sort of bring in his replacements last Jan in Hedges and Markanday. Admittedly the latter didn't play as much as I'd like and the former doesn't have that pace, but I'd say Hedges more or less replaced Khadra's quality of contribution. Last season, you couldn't have remotely said that about him, so to use an old cliche he's been 'like a new signing'. Not that it was planned or expected, but it's helped.

Overall it was probably a downgrade, but not an extreme one. The loanees the likes of Clarkson, Zeefuik, Giles, were all either not good enough or misused.

I seem to remember asking on here - but not seeing a reply - as someone who's very far away from being an ITK, what rights a borrowing club has when it comes to loaning youngsters.

Can we specify which player we'd like to borrow for a season or do we have to take whoever - e.g. Liverpool - are prepared to lend us? And once we've got that player for a season, are there penalty clauses if we don't have what the lending club sees as a valid reason for not playing the loanee week after week?

For every Elliott, there seems to have been some dross who's played a season in blue and white. 

[booth]

6 hours ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Jon Dahl Tomasson spotted at EFL ground with Blackburn Rovers boss on scouting mission - LancsLive 

Tomasson was in the stands for the Hatters' home match against Tranmere Rovers, with two players on the scouting list. Lancs Live understands Stockport's Will Collar and Tranmere's Josh Hawkes were the two players of interest.

Seems like "I'll do it my f***ing self then" is at play here.

[simongarnerisgod]

11 minutes ago, booth said:

Seems like "I'll do it my f***ing self then" is at play here.

he was at the fleetwood/portsmouth game a few weeks ago,apparently interested in colby bishop,maybe jdt has told greg to **** off you useless ****,your as much use as a chocolate teapot😁

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, R0verb0y said:

 

I seem to remember asking on here - but not seeing a reply - as someone who's very far away from being an ITK, what rights a borrowing club has when it comes to loaning youngsters.

Can we specify which player we'd like to borrow for a season or do we have to take whoever - e.g. Liverpool - are prepared to lend us? And once we've got that player for a season, are there penalty clauses if we don't have what the lending club sees as a valid reason for not playing the loanee week after week?

For every Elliott, there seems to have been some dross who's played a season in blue and white. 

We say who we would like to borrow, they say yes or no. We could ask them who they have available, but obviously we don't have to take who is available, we are free to look elsewhere. Only feeder clubs don't really get a say in who arrives I think, but they certainly don't have to play whoever is sent.

Whether we have to play a standard loanee and whether there are penalties depends on the contract that is drawn up and agreed to by both clubs. It varies.

[bazza]

5 hours ago, R0verb0y said:

That almost sounds like a line from "Les Miserables", @bazza!

It was meant to be.😎  To me the Rovers for now are Les Miserables.