v The Dingles (a) - 13/11/2022

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, joey_big_nose said:

Really disappointing day, feel bad for everyone who went. We created a few decent breaks first half and start of the second, but didn't get any shots away at all. Once Gallagher went off we stopped looking at all competitive, it could have been 5 or 6.

While I can accept being beaten, the manner of the capitulation in the last 30 minutes is totally unacceptable. We desperately need a quality physical centre forward who can share the burden with Gallagher.

Also I was very surprised we didnt move Diaz central after Gally went off and we toiled away with Vale up front. It was so clearly not going to work but we did it any way which I find absolutely baffling.

We never do play Brererton up the middle. It’s not his best position but sometimes you have give it a go in emergencies.

[Bohinen1983]

I was shot down earlier in the season for suggesting we're very weak in cm.

I got told 'We've Travis, Buckley, Wharton, Morton' who'd you drop?'

I'd drop them all. 

Travis: Limited but does a job.

Wharton: Should be used from the bench in choice games

Morton/Buckley: Decent players but incredibly lightweight

Wharton, Morton and Buckley are all ball playing centre mids. Non are blessed athletically, non are any good at carrying the ball.

So we're left with a very undynamic, physcially weak, pretty slow midfield.  It wouldn't be as bad if we had electrically fast forwards and could play a bit more directly but we don't. 

I'd like to see us bring in someone in the mould of Rothwell and an experienced physical leader like Johnson was. As it stands I think we're well punching above our weight.  

[booth]

22 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Ok, last reply on this thread / match then I'm going to go outside - it's only a game of football after all, it's not that important.

Garrett, Mola and Travis all put in crunching tackles in this match. Unfortunately the referee was only blowing for fouls one way - so no matter how much you 'give a fuck', it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if you're blown up for everything and their CF can push your GK into the back of the net / hit your CM late and no-where near the ball without a booking. 

This was also the game where Gallagher was desperate to play on despite a very deep gash to his leg. 

I don't question the commitment of these players, I question the ability - I always have. 

The referee was a complete tool, but Tomasson and the players made their own mistakes and were punished. The same mistakes they've made in other matches. Mola wasn't even jumping for the ball in our own box at times. Ayala's brains left him a few times. Vale was jogging about like he was taking the dog for a walk. Travis was running about a bit but when he got the ball there was no urgency, he gave up by the second half. Gallagher was a passenger before he got injured, when he did get injured there was more passion in his eyes than in the minutes he'd played. It's the worst I've seen Morton play who was absolutely abysmal. I'll lay off Kaminski, Hyam, Brereton, Hedges and Brittain. Hedges and Brittain were hamstrung by JDT's silly sod tactics. Brereton can't do it by himself. Hyam was on his own in a defence full of dickheads. Kaminski kept it from being 2-0 after Travis put the team under pointless pressure.

They couldn't give a toss E_R. They've been playing half a match since Mowbray showed up, and now they are being asked to tap it around and defend for 90 minutes against the league's top scorers. The mentality won't disappear overnight and we're going to have to spend a lot of money to play JDT's way properly.

Just another away loss for JDT and his boys for some it seems. Meh. It happens.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 minutes ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

Lots of posts saying the manager doesn't care, the players don't care, the players didn't try, the players are too soft, they should have got stuck in, they don't live in the area, they don't know what it means to the fans, etc etc.

But it was zip zip at half-time, they'd only had two headers on target and threatened little. We may have had a penalty when Diaz was shoved over. We had been relatively comfortable throughout, defended well from set pieces and limited them to long rage attempts.

So the players cared and tried first half?

Second half they pushed on, we lost Gallagher, they scored from a brilliant cross for the first and punished us for defensive stupidity for the 2nd. We tried to open up and get back into it, made little progress and by the end with more mistakes could have conceeded five.

Truth is, it was nothing to do with effort or desire. It wouldn't have been nil nil if we hadn't been trying.

The squad is paper thin. We lack suitable replacements in most positions. We lack pace, creativity, and goals and have actually punched way above our weight this year. Yes we've enjoyed some luck and yes the league is quite poor in general, but the reason we are riding high is that we have tried very hard all season, defended well and operated to a coherent plan.

Didn't try? Couldn't be arsed? Didn't understand it was a big game? Mmmm, ok.

 

Our half time xG was 0 apparently, you may be sanguine with that but I’m not.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Boroblue]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Yes.

I have just had another look at the table as we go in to the World Cup break. Of the top 5 teams we are the only one that are not in receipt of parachute payments from the Premier League, three of the other four receiving £55m and one I think £33m compared with our £8m - £9m from TV rights. The manager has done a brilliant job putting us where we are - and the idea that he might be chased out of the club because of one disappointing day or not giving some absurd "apology" horrifies me.

It’s not about league position or money it’s about attitude and ours stank. That is from top to bottom lazy and half arsed would some it up. Tactically naive and not even able to learn from others experience. Thomason has today not covered himself in glory. Didn’t understand the magnitude of the game kompany did. Played a mad arse formation with sudden new inclusion he even left out the guys who understood what it meant. 
mola instead of Wharton???????
no young wharton??????

Experimental at the least what a complete arse he’s been today. He feels for the fans well he needs to wipe that smirk off his face because today we have been totally let down

they are lucky that it’s this era.I remember during a promotion push in the late seventies early eighties we lost at Oldham and the supporters waited outside for them. They had to rum to the coach. That might help them focus on the return match

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, booth said:

The referee was a complete tool, but Tomasson and the players made their own mistakes and were punished. The same mistakes they've made in other matches. Mola wasn't even jumping for the ball in our own box at times. Ayala's brains left him a few times. Vale was jogging about like he was taking the dog for a walk. Travis was running about a bit but when he got the ball there was no urgency, he gave up by the second half. Gallagher was a passenger before he got injured, when he did get injured there was more passion in his eyes than in the minutes he'd played. It's the worst I've seen Morton play who was absolutely abysmal. I'll lay off Kaminski, Hyam, Brereton, Hedges and Brittain. Hedges and Brittain were hamstrung by JDT's silly sod tactics. Brereton can't do it by himself. Hyam was on his own in a defence full of dickheads. Kaminski kept it from being 2-0 after Travis put the team under pointless pressure.

They couldn't give a toss E_R. They've been playing half a match since Mowbray showed up, and now they are being asked to tap it around and defend for 90 minutes against the league's top scorers. The mentality won't disappear overnight and we're going to have to spend a lot of money to play JDT's way properly.

Just another away loss for JDT and his boys for some it seems. Meh. It happens.

Not picking on the lad because he wasn’t on his own but last week against Hudds Morton was abysmal also. I said at the time “ If he’s the future for Liverpool God help them “. Then I see today some top German team want to sign him. I wonder if he was being watched today ? For his sake I hope not.

[pick32]

Wharton wouldn’t of let Barnes score we are third under false pretences, happy clap your way threw a dreadful corrupt sham of a world cup

[Mashed Potatoes]

4 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

It’s not about league position or money it’s about attitude and ours stank. That is from top to bottom lazy and half arsed would some it up. Tactically naive and not even able to learn from others experience. Thomason has today not covered himself in glory. Didn’t understand the magnitude of the game kompany did. Played a mad arse formation with sudden new inclusion he even left out the guys who understood what it meant. 
mola instead of Wharton???????
no young wharton??????

Experimental at the least what a complete arse he’s been today. He feels for the fans well he needs to wipe that smirk off his face because today we have been totally let down

they are lucky that it’s this era.I remember during a promotion push in the late seventies early eighties we lost at Oldham and the supporters waited outside for them. They had to rum to the coach. That might help them focus on the return match

Of course it is about the league position. The money shows you how well we are doing given what we are up against.

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Not picking on the lad because he wasn’t on his own but last week against Hudds Morton was abysmal also. I said at the time “ If he’s the future for Liverpool God help them “. Then I see today some top German team want to sign him. I wonder if he was being watched today ? For his sake I hope not.

Maybe the top German side - who signed Jude Bellingham when he was 17 - see something you don't.

[Waggy76]

1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Of course it is about the league position. The money shows you how well we are doing given what we are up against.

  Its not where you start its where  you finish...

 

[Bohinen1983]

On another note, I think we're pretty solid at the back.  We just need to play direct. We simply don't have the personnel at present to play attractive passing football unfortunately.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

17 minutes ago, Hasta said:

But at least he’d change his fucking game plan from time to time.

I could go back and find plenty of posts all season about how playing out at the back is dangerous if you are not good enough. When it’s not working we need a plan B. Surely actually being able to change the way the team is playing when you are playing very poorly is a simple ask for any competent manager.

And yet games such as Wigan, Luton, Coventry and again today are all the same. We fuck about and don’t go anywhere. In that first half today how many times did Kaminsky roll the ball out in his area to a defender and we ended up losing it within 35 years from our goal. 5? 6? It’s happened all season. It was first commented on at Celtic in July!  Our brighter (and I say that loosely) moments in the first half where when we got SG and BB on the ball around the box. And those instances tended to come by going front to back quicker (as did our 1 shot on target). And yet the second half we played the same way, and when we went a goal behind we still did the exact same shit which ultimately led to the 2nd goal and killed the game. Stubborn.

Now I’ve no problem with tippy tippy plan A if that’s how he wants to play. It’s reaped it’s rewards and our league position shows that. However it’s also why we have lost so many games so spectacularly badly. As soon as any team presses up on us and puts us under serious pressure we can’t pass it out and struggle. Even in games we’ve won at home such as Birmingham, Sunderland and Huddersfield, once that team has realised they need to push on to salvage the game, they’ve suddenly had us on the back foot. The evidence is there even in the games we have won.

And yet he refuses to change it - ever. After the first goal we should have been going a bit more direct. How hard can it be for Kaminsky to kick it up field and for the midfield to push up and try to win the second ball. It’s not like it could be any less effective than what we saw all game. 

I’ve no issue with losing to Burnley. I expected it and they have better players than we do. But we had 1 fucking shot (on or off target) all game and that sums up out performance completely. And for all the “ooh. Burnley are a Ferrari “ posts, how is it Crawley and Shrewsbury can muster more shots, let alone every other Championship side?

 

 

 

Last weeks goal was exactly that. A good long ball from Pickering that sent BBD through on goal.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Waggy76 said:

  Its not where you start its where  you finish...

 

You must be a clairvoyant to know where we will finish.

[tomphil]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Not picking on the lad because he wasn’t on his own but last week against Hudds Morton was abysmal also. I said at the time “ If he’s the future for Liverpool God help them “. Then I see today some top German team want to sign him. I wonder if he was being watched today ? For his sake I hope not.

Good player but too lightweight and goes hiding far too often just like today but that can be a problem with loaness.

Oh how we could have done with Van Hecke today his attitude was the exception to the rule.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Maybe the top German side - who signed Jude Bellingham when he was 17 - see something you don't.

I hope so for their sake, whatever it is, it wasn’t on display today.

[Waggy76]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

You must be a clairvoyant to know where we will finish.

 It wont be in the top half....

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, Bohinen1983 said:

On another note, I think we're pretty solid at the back.  We just need to play direct. We simply don't have the personnel at present to play attractive passing football unfortunately.  

10/10. Do you think this manager will ever play that way because I don’t ?

It doesn’t have to be direct all the time but mix it up a bit just to get our opponents guessing.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[B16Rover]

We really don't have any direct players besides Diaz.  We have a lot of ball holding midfielders but not one who can drive forward.  

 

Consistently find ourselves lumping it for Diaz to run on to, otherwise weve nothing between central midfield and strikers and those central midfielders by nature want to sit deeper and play the ball

[Bohinen1983]

Just now, B16Rover said:

We really don't have any direct players besides Diaz.  We have a lot of ball holding midfielders but not one who can drive forward.  

 

Consistently find ourselves lumping it for Diaz to run on to, otherwise weve nothing between central midfield and strikers and those central midfielders by nature want to sit deeper and play the ball

Strongly agree, pal. Posted earlier the same thing.

[arbitro]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Last weeks goal was exactly that. A good long ball from Pickering that sent BBD through on goal.

And at West Ham Edun played a ball through to Vale that dissected their centre halves. I have asked the question before but how many goals have come from playing out from the back (from any team)? In our case I can hardly remember us getting to the half way line never mind scoring. It's a fad and managers are simply expecting players to do something they simply aren't capable of.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

And at West Ham Edun played a ball through to Vale that dissected their centre halves. I have asked the question before but how many goals have come from playing out from the back (from any team)? In our case I can hardly remember us getting to the half way line never mind scoring. It's a fad and managers are simply expecting players to do something they simply aren't capable of.

The guy at Rochdale was doing it last season. They got relegated and he got fired. He’s a youth team coach at City now. Maybe it’ll work there. All I know is it’s a lot easier as a forward to dispossess a defender than it is for a defender to play his way out of trouble. You only have to get a foot in, he has to have perfect control of the ball. If they were that good on the ball they wouldn’t be playing centre half.

[M_B]

The back 5 should have picked itself today. Playing Brittain on the left was never going to work. It blunts his own attacking threat and Brereton's who always plays better with Pickering behind him. 

Throw into the mix giving Mola a start, and you've got an unbalanced, experimental defence on the one day you DON'T experiment. 

Can't believe he did that today. 

[yankfan]

22 minutes ago, Bohinen1983 said:

On another note, I think we're pretty solid at the back.  We just need to play direct. We simply don't have the personnel at present to play attractive passing football unfortunately.  

It’s not even that we need to play direct. We need to stop playing goal kicks to center backs in the box. Why possess 100 yards to goal with them having time to set up their pressure 

[Crozzy]

23 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

10/10. Do you think this manager will ever play that way because I don’t ?

It doesn’t have to be direct all the time but mix it up a bit just to get our opponents guessing.

At least when we are being pressed change it and play over the top 

[davulsukur]

16 minutes ago, arbitro said:

And at West Ham Edun played a ball through to Vale that dissected their centre halves. I have asked the question before but how many goals have come from playing out from the back (from any team)? In our case I can hardly remember us getting to the half way line never mind scoring. It's a fad and managers are simply expecting players to do something they simply aren't capable of.

This is a great point. Man City/prime Barca aside, does playing it out from the back yeild any actual benefits for a team? 

As you say, for us, it nearly always ends in disaster. 

In any case, it certainly doesn't benefit Blackburn Rovers, which is all we care about.