v The Dingles (a) - 13/11/2022

[longsiders1882]

10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Not with that trophy.

Ah another fan for whom footie only started in '92. Being Champions of England is being Champions of England. You've done it 3 times, not once (us twice) - or do those first 2 not count?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

Ah another fan for whom footie only started in '92. Being Champions of England is being Champions of England. You've done it 3 times, not once (us twice) - or do those first 2 not count?

That’s the Premier League trophy. We’ve won it once and you haven’t won it at all. The old First Division trophy is a different kettle of fish. I would maintain they were both hard to win but the Premier League trophy was harder. Look at the teams that won the First Division back in the day Ipswich, Forest, Villa, Everton, Leeds etc. Nobody dominated the old First Division as Utd did in the early days of the Premier League.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[oldjamfan1]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That’s the Premier League trophy. We’ve won it once and you haven’t won it at all. The old First Division trophy is a different kettle of fish. I would maintain they were both hard to win but the Premier League trophy was harder. Look at the teams that won the First Division back in the day Ipswich, Forest, Villa, etc. Nobody dominated the old First Division as Utd did in the early days of the Premier League.

Apart from Liverpool for about 15 years

[longsiders1882]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That’s the Premier League trophy. We’ve won it once and you haven’t won it at all. The old First Division trophy is a different kettle of fish. I would maintain they were both hard to win but the Premier League trophy was harder. Look at the teams that won the First Division back in the day Ipswich, Forest, Villa, Everton, Leeds etc. Nobody dominated the old First Division as Utd did in the early days of the Premier League.

Ah so if you win the Premier League Trophy you become champions of the world - or maybe the universe?

Nonesense. And for the record when the PL was created, it was simply the old Division 1 rebadged. It has become harder in the intervening years but hadn't changed much by 94/5 - indeed many blame/credit Walker with distorting the competition and starting the financial arms race it has become.

[Leonard Venkhater]

32 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You were what you were. Nobody had deliberately sabotaged your club. Mistakes had been made but not because people didn’t care., they just got things wrong. Were your owners/directors  at Ewood that afternoon ? Where were our “ owners” last Sunday ? Probably watching the cricket back in India. That is why we’re like a cancer patient.

My analogy is we are like the passengers on that plane were the pilot decided to end it all and flew into a mountain. We can’t get off and we can’t influence the flight path.

There is honestly no comparison.

 

Well, it looks there is,..... if you are just a bitter, victim- centric local rival.

I guess Jack Walker and Venky's represent the two extremes of what can happen to a club...and hey both happened to the same club within under 20 years.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

You have never won the Premier League Trophy Longsider...your Clubs name is not engraved upon it.

Oh and btw you've never won the League Cup either...your Club has some catching up to do.

It must grind them Clarrott Bones but facts be facts fella! 😉

Edited November 17, 2022 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[longsiders1882]

1 minute ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

You have never won the Premier League Trophy Longsider...your Clubs name is not engraved upon it.

Facts be facts.

This is true - doesn't alter the fact we've been Champions of England though.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

That is not in dispute.

[Leonard Venkhater]

11 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

This is true - doesn't alter the fact we've been Champions of England though.

And congratulations too!

[Mattyblue]

39 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

Ah so if you win the Premier League Trophy you become champions of the world - or maybe the universe?

Nonesense. And for the record when the PL was created, it was simply the old Division 1 rebadged. It has become harder in the intervening years but hadn't changed much by 94/5 - indeed many blame/credit Walker with distorting the competition and starting the financial arms race it has become.

But not you, of course…

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

46 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

Ah so if you win the Premier League Trophy you become champions of the world - or maybe the universe?

Nonesense. And for the record when the PL was created, it was simply the old Division 1 rebadged. It has become harder in the intervening years but hadn't changed much by 94/5 - indeed many blame/credit Walker with distorting the competition and starting the financial arms race it has become.

Don’t be silly. Clubs have been buying players as long as organised football has existed. You’ve spent more money than us recently. Am I bitter ? Not at all, it’s the way of the football world. We had plenty of good players taken off us in the past. When Jack came along it was our turn.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

44 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

Ah so if you win the Premier League Trophy you become champions of the world - or maybe the universe?

Nonesense. And for the record when the PL was created, it was simply the old Division 1 rebadged. It has become harder in the intervening years but hadn't changed much by 94/5 - indeed many blame/credit Walker with distorting the competition and starting the financial arms race it has become.

No, it’s just the Premier League trophy. Of which there is a replica on display in the trophy cabinet at Ewood.

[jim mk2]

42 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

- indeed many blame/credit Walker with distorting the competition and starting the financial arms race it has become.

I would hope it's not you, because it's total nonsense and intended only to discredit Rovers. We've never been given respect for our achievement because of another old trope, that we somehow "bought the title".  Walker saw the vast TV fortunes coming into the game and paid the players accordingly. He was ahead of his time

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

I would hope it's not you, because it's total nonsense and intended only to discredit Rovers. We've never been given respect for our achievement because of another old trope, that we somehow "bought the title".  Walker saw the vast TV fortunes coming into the game and paid the players accordingly. He was ahead of his time

We were hardly the first team to spend a bit of money. Most teams that have won things in the recent past have spent money. You have to go back to the old maximum wage days to find clubs that didn’t.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, longsiders1882 said:

Ah so if you win the Premier League Trophy you become champions of the world - or maybe the universe?

Nonesense. And for the record when the PL was created, it was simply the old Division 1 rebadged. It has become harder in the intervening years but hadn't changed much by 94/5 - indeed many blame/credit Walker with distorting the competition and starting the financial arms race it has become.

And ManU and Newcastle weren't? 

We spent in 92/3 and 93/4 for the simple and what should be obvious reason that JW and Dalglish were building a PL side, we had only just got promoted.

That FACT is always ignored by the fecking ignorant.

Edited November 17, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[joey_big_nose]

14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We were hardly the first team to spend a bit of money. Most teams that have won things in the recent past have spent money. You have to go back to the old maximum wage days to find clubs that didn’t.

Yeah... the year we won the title Manchester United significantly out spent us, and I think Liverpool were there or thereabouts also.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/when-saturday-comes-blog/2013/oct/23/blackburn-premier-league-title-earned-1995

[J*B]

Some of these arguments make us look like we’re metaphorically holding on for dear life. 

Two very similar clubs, with more similarities than differences.

Uncle Jack made us much better, Venkys made us much worse. Burnley where lucky that their period in the PL was when it was. They’ve essentially had a rich benefactors worth of investment due to the timing of their recent promotions. 

As it stands they’ve the better team and infrastructure based on how well Turd looked on TV, although I wasn’t there in the flesh. Ewood hasn’t had the basic levels of maintenance since relegation from the PL. Remember, we don’t own our own training facilities anymore, they do. 

Rovers fans are incredibly lucky they got to see the successes they did in the 90s and 00s. Despite the PL riches, the way football is run means that it’s more unlikely than ever before that Burnley will see what we’ve been lucky enough to see. If Rovers can somehow manage to fluke a promotion, the playing field will be even once again. 

[Silas]

Such a myth how much we spent in the glory years compared to other clubs. On transfermarkt.co.uk I've picked 90/91 season to 01/02 to cover the period we won the 2 major trophies.

On total expenditure we're 7th:

1		Newcastle United	€236.98m	190	€132.61m	174	€-104.36m
2		Liverpool FC	€212.33m	138	€100.84m	133	€-111.49m
3		Manchester United	€204.51m	163	€98.92m	152	€-105.59m
4		Chelsea FC	€204.05m	164	€93.06m	156	€-110.99m
5		Leeds United	€202.13m	153	€64.84m	151	€-137.29m
6		Arsenal FC	€199.07m	150	€137.59m	145	€-61.48m
7		Blackburn Rovers	€177.03m	194	€131.51m	187	€-45.53m

 

On net spend we're even lower at 13th:

1		Leeds United	€202.13m	153	€64.84m	151	€-137.29m
2		Liverpool FC	€212.33m	138	€100.84m	133	€-111.49m
3		Chelsea FC	€204.05m	164	€93.06m	156	€-110.99m
4		Manchester United	€204.51m	163	€98.92m	152	€-105.59m
5		Newcastle United	€236.98m	190	€132.61m	174	€-104.36m
6		Tottenham Hotspur	€145.85m	180	€57.81m	184	€-88.04m
7		Fulham FC	€90.26m	173	€7.70m	165	€-82.56m
8		Middlesbrough FC	€137.19m	169	€72.36m	160	€-64.82m
9		Arsenal FC	€199.07m	150	€137.59m	145	€-61.48m
10		Aston Villa	€157.85m	147	€105.97m	141	€-51.88m
11		Manchester City	€90.99m	215	€40.80m	208	€-50.19m
12		Sunderland AFC	€86.02m	173	€38.17m	161	€-47.85m
13		Blackburn Rovers	€177.03m	194	€131.51m	187	€-45.53m

 

But people still talk like we were the big spenders of the 90's. Simply not true. Same goes for wages too. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Silas

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 minutes ago, J*B said:

Some of these arguments make us look like we’re metaphorically holding on for dear life. 

Two very similar clubs, with more similarities than differences.

Uncle Jack made us much better, Venkys made us much worse. Burnley where lucky that their period in the PL was when it was. They’ve essentially had a rich benefactors worth of investment due to the timing of their recent promotions. 

As it stands they’ve the better team and infrastructure based on how well Turd looked on TV, although I wasn’t there in the flesh. Ewood hasn’t had the basic levels of maintenance since relegation from the PL. Remember, we don’t own our own training facilities anymore, they do. 

Rovers fans are incredibly lucky they got to see the successes they did in the 90s and 00s. Despite the PL riches, the way football is run means that it’s more unlikely than ever before that Burnley will see what we’ve been lucky enough to see. If Rovers can somehow manage to fluke a promotion, the playing field will be even once again. 

Why do you think our promotion would be fluked rather than earnt ?

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, sympatheticclaret said:

I'm sorry, but that's tosh ....

At the time of the " April Fools day " massacre, we were virtually broke, having suffered the ITV digital fiasco, whilst Rovers had both parachute payments and Walker Trust funding ... Rovers had their metaphorical foot on Burnley necks and never let up, nor would we have expected them to.

 I'm sure when Craig Hignett slammed the 5th goal past Nik Michopoulos on 1st April 2001, you were sitting there shaking your head muttering, " Sorry lads, I cannot join in with this jubilation, it's like beating up a cancer patient " ! 🙄

 

Just one point, there were no parachute payments back then. Can’t disagree with any of the rest of your post though.

We should expect you to enjoy your current superiority over us, we dished it out for long enough.

For me there is definitely respect (maybe grudging) for how Burnley bucked the trend and many would argue defied the odds for a number of years, staying in the premier league and even getting into Europe. It is galling to me that all the things that we were prior to Venky’s - pretty much self sufficient, “punching above our weight”, upheld as the model of a well run club - were what you became.

I have no respect for Venky’s. They are wholly responsible for an almost unthinkable reversal of fortunes in such a short amount of time.

 

 

[oneandycrawford]

Having started watching League football in the mid-70's, of the Lancs town teams Burnley were undoubtedly top dogs, with Blackpool and Bolton still doing ok (indeed Bolton were on the rise for a brief period) with Rovers just starting to recover and Nob End in a similar state. All had regular top division football in recent memory.

I was brought up to support Rovers but not to 'hate' the rival clubs. When we played them of course I wanted to beat them but could respect and enjoy watching the other teams when not playing them. One of the best games I've ever seen live was Bolton v Newcastle 3-3 cup-tie in 76 when I wanted Bolton to win as they were 2nd division at the time (and the 2nd replay at Elland Road was fairly memorable as well when it was pay on the gate and we just got in having abandoned the car 3 miles away from the ground!!)

OK I'd have a laugh at the expense of my Burnley supporting schoolmates (I was vastly outnumbered by them in Rossendale then so had to be a bit careful!!) Maybe supporting a non-league team at the time, and mixing with supporters of several league clubs in the process, gave a different sense of perspective?

As to who won what and when - you can only beat what's in front of you - any trophy at any time deserves respect. Burnley won the league a year before a great Spurs side won the double - seems like a fair achievement to me. We won 5 of our 6 FA Cups at a time when there wasn't much competition but I was furious to hear that there were moves to remove them from the record because 'it wasn't really a valid competition at the time'

For example, I despise many things about Leeds United - but the fact they have 'never won the Premier League' as though it is a stick to beat them with - when they won the same competition the year before, with (mainly) the same teams and before the SKY money had any real effect - is rewriting history in a way that Stalin or Chairman Mao would be proud of!!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

But, look in the record books. Leeds have never won the Premier League. To pretend otherwise is really re-writing history.

[J*B]

22 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Why do you think our promotion would be fluked rather than earnt ?

Simply put, because the odds are against us.

Our revenue is lower than the majority of the league. Other clubs are earning more and have parachute payments on top.

Money wins in football in 95% of cases. For us to go up it takes clubs with more resources to not use them wisely. 

[roversfan99]

It wouldn't be a fluke, but it would be a very good achievement. Our revenue may (partially self inflicted) not be top 3 or top 6 in the league but it isn't lower than the "majority" of the league though.

A project in which specific targets are put on playing academy graduates does not really scream an underlying desperation to go up.

[Miller11]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

 

Money wins in football in 95% of cases. For us to go up it takes clubs with more resources to not use them wisely. 

Or for us to use our limited resources really wisely… LOL!