v Norwich City (a) - 17/12/22

[smiller14]

I am actively trying to find a way where I am not in front o a tele to watch it. On a weekend away with a Dingle and a Rangers fan - sick to the back teeth of people putting the boot in and mocking our self-destructive style of play, so hopefully I'll find somewhere without a tele between 5.30 and 7.30! 

[Mercer]

Honestly don't know where we go from here.

Manager stubbornly naive.

Players showing no bottle and no appetite for a fight.

Some fortuitous early season wins will probably be enough to keep us from relegation.

But my God, these are deeply worrying times and are equal to, if not worse, than the darkest days of Iley, Ince, Kean, Coyle and Mowbray etc.

If we avoid defeat at Norwich by 3 or less, it will feel like a result after the Burnley and PNE debacles.

[Claytons Left Boot]

I’m going for a Norwich win by 3-0 but, such is the nature of Rovers’ bipolar results, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if we, at the very least, avoided defeat.

That said, I can feel a death spiral is about to gain momentum.

[GHR]

3 hours ago, smiller14 said:

I am actively trying to find a way where I am not in front o a tele to watch it. On a weekend away with a Dingle and a Rangers fan - sick to the back teeth of people putting the boot in and mocking our self-destructive style of play, so hopefully I'll find somewhere without a tele between 5.30 and 7.30! 

Not sure a Rangers fan can laugh at anyone self destructing given their past 12 years or so

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

But my God, these are deeply worrying times and are equal to, if not worse, than the darkest days of Iley, Ince, Kean, Coyle and Mowbray etc.

My God, these are deeply embarassing comments. We are third in the league and 4 points clear of 7th place. Yes, it's a false position, yes I expect us to slide down the league in the second half of the season to finish somewhere mid-table ish, but comparing it to Ince, Kean and Coyle is ridiculous at this stage. Similarities to Mowbray I can see, although it's hardly like the darkest days of his reign. In fact it's more like the best days of his reign given our position. I'm not old enough to remember Iley.

[Hasta]

25 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

My God, these are deeply embarassing comments. We are third in the league and 4 points clear of 7th place. Yes, it's a false position, yes I expect us to slide down the league in the second half of the season to finish somewhere mid-table ish, but comparing it to Ince, Kean and Coyle is ridiculous at this stage. Similarities to Mowbray I can see, although it's hardly like the darkest days of his reign. In fact it's more like the best days of his reign given our position. I'm not old enough to remember Iley.

The suicidal playing out from the back is probably annoying me more than any single tactical move any previous manager has ever kept repeatedly doing.  It serves no purpose when it doesn’t cost us a goal, and embarrasses us when it does. 

Rather than admit he’s got it wrong though, he keeps persisting. That’s where the anger at the manager is coming from.

Norwich are at home, they will press us from the front. We will struggle to get out from  our half and have any sort of meaningful shot again unless we go more direct or forward a lot quicker (which we won’t) 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Hasta

[K-Hod]

4 hours ago, Mercer said:

Honestly don't know where we go from here.

Manager stubbornly naive.

Players showing no bottle and no appetite for a fight.

Some fortuitous early season wins will probably be enough to keep us from relegation.

But my God, these are deeply worrying times and are equal to, if not worse, than the darkest days of Iley, Ince, Kean, Coyle and Mowbray etc.

If we avoid defeat at Norwich by 3 or less, it will feel like a result after the Burnley and PNE debacles.

Absolutely no need for melodrama of this nature.

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Hasta said:

The suicidal playing out from the back is probably annoying me more than any single tactical move any previous manager has ever kept repeatedly doing.  It serves no purpose when it doesn’t cost us a goal, and embarrasses us when it does. 

Rather than admit he’s got it wrong though, he keeps persisting. That’s where the anger at the manager is coming from.

Norwich are at home, they will press us from the front. We will struggle to get out from  our half and have any sort of meaningful shot again unless we go more direct or forward a lot quicker (which we won’t) 

 

Mowbray already did the same thing for a full season, with a lower league finish than we are likely to achieve this year. But yes, it's infuriating.

The only difference between JDT possession and TM's possession game when he tried it is that TM's was further up the pitch. But it was still pointless safety passing. If I was to hazard a guess why JDT's take on it is yielding better results so far, I'd say a combination of him being a more inspiring personality to work under, and the opposition being tempted to close us down at the back, which is a serious problem when it works, but creates space for us further upfield when it doesn't, to start counter attacks which is where we are most effective.

[tomphil]

Mowbrays possession football wasn't played inside or to one side of our own box but the key difference was he had the likes of Evans and Trybull who were far more comfortable showing for and receiving short balls under pressure.  Also we created a lot of chances we just didn't have a Rhodes type at the other end to snap them up.

We kept losing by the odd goal and it was boring and frustrating to sit through but it wasn't near as suicidal as this present system has become. All the more frustrating because when they are fit JDT/Broughton have built a better set of defenders.

They just can't play dutch disease football.

Edited December 13, 2022 by tomphil

[booth]

Brereton is due a goal. Every three games he plays like a superstar.

I think on this occasion he'll save it till boxing day.

[M_B]

All he had to do was play the settled 10/11 at Burnley. It imploded from the point that he made that ridiculous selection. 

It was all bobbing along nicely until Tomasson experimented in the one game you don't experiment. Football suicide. 

Get back to a settled defence with players in their proper position, rather than this  vanity, and we may get some consistency going. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by M_B

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Mowbrays possession football wasn't played inside or to one side of our own box but the key difference was he had the likes of Evans and Trybull who were far more comfortable showing for and receiving short balls under pressure.  Also we created a lot of chances we just didn't have a Rhodes type at the other end to snap them up.

We kept losing by the odd goal and it was boring and frustrating to sit through but it wasn't near as suicidal as this present system has become.

The season's results strongly indicate it is far less suicidal than the present system. Of course the last two games have been a total abortion and if we continue in that vein for the rest of the season you'll be right.

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Mowbray already did the same thing for a full season, with a lower league finish than we are likely to achieve this year. But yes, it's infuriating.

That’s where we differ. It’s not the ‘slow build’ that’s the problem. It’s the refusal to clear your lines.

Mowbray team didn’t play suicidal balls across the back line and refuse to clear the ball when under pressure.  Nobody is complaining about pointless passing when ‘probing’. It’s shite like that second goal on Saturday which they are clearly instructed to do. It’s nothing like what Mowbray did.

It’s not just the last two games. Luton, Coventry and Wigan spring to mind as others where we just kept playing ourselves into trouble and conceded goals.

The problem is teams are now starting to press us higher as everyone becomes more aware that we only play one way, and there is a way to use that to their advantage. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Hasta

[bluebruce]

21 minutes ago, Hasta said:

That’s where we differ. It’s not the ‘slow build’ that’s the problem. It’s the refusal to clear your lines.

Mowbray team didn’t play suicidal balls across the back line and refuse to clear the ball when under pressure.  Nobody is complaining about pointless passing when ‘probing’. It’s shite like that second goal on Saturday which they are clearly instructed to do. It’s nothing like what Mowbray did.

It’s not just the last two games. Luton, Coventry and Wigan spring to mind as others where we just kept playing ourselves into trouble and conceded goals.

The problem is teams are now starting to press us higher as everyone becomes more aware that we only play one way, and there is a way to use that to their advantage. 

I was talking about the possession first mentality. The rest of my post already talked about the difference in the specific approaches, but it's variations on the same disease, the notion that holding the ball is more important than actually attacking. We don't really have the personnel for either approach, but I think it's hard to argue against the fact JDT's one has been more effective so far than TM's, regardless of how much anyone likes it.

I definitely did see a fair bit of passing at the back under TM too, just less. 

[Athlete]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

That’s where we differ. It’s not the ‘slow build’ that’s the problem. It’s the refusal to clear your lines.

Mowbray team didn’t play suicidal balls across the back line and refuse to clear the ball when under pressure.  Nobody is complaining about pointless passing when ‘probing’. It’s shite like that second goal on Saturday which they are clearly instructed to do. It’s nothing like what Mowbray did.

It’s not just the last two games. Luton, Coventry and Wigan spring to mind as others where we just kept playing ourselves into trouble and conceded goals.

 

Add Reading sheff Utd and Cardiff to that list along with hanging on at home a few times and getting away with it by the skin of our teeth

[47er]

Have zero confidence going into this game. I'm expecting to get thrashed and to slide down the table. Any other result I'll take.

[Nuttall is lost]

I always think of the 1992 7-1 result when I see this fixture.  Sat might be their turn to do us 7-1.  I have zero confidence in getting a win.

Merry Christmas

[Ossydave]

Massive pfttttttttttt about this one.

I wanted him to put things right after the dingle debacle, he failed in THE worst possible fashion.

All I can say is its a good job me and my pals filled our boxing day coach to Sunderland before the dingle game or we'd probably be struggling!

Not one to hold grudges and most instances can forgive people but if he doesn't change things up, again, there's a good chance of something being thrown through the TV.

[Miller11]

I’m really tempted to try and pay for Christmas by lumping on a Pukki hat-trick at 28/1.

We are guaranteed to gift him one or two to get him started.

[booth]

22 hours ago, Mercer said:

But my God, these are deeply worrying times and are equal to, if not worse, than the darkest days of Iley, Ince, Kean, Coyle and Mowbray etc.

If we avoid defeat at Norwich by 3 or less, it will feel like a result after the Burnley and PNE debacles.

That's a massive knee jerk reaction.

And that's coming from someone who had several of them on Saturday in the match day thread.

It's nowhere near as bad as Coyle and Mowbray.

Kean, ffs. Those were the darkest days you can imagine. I'm amazed the club is still in business.

Rovers have played well this season, we've ran some teams ragged. The defence have played exceptionally well on occasion, holding on to leads like never under Mowbray. Let's keep some faith that we're just having a bad run at the moment, something clicks and it'll turn around.

[DE.]

I think JDT has just been luckier than TM in terms of his possession football getting results. Performance wise there's been no improvement. A few decent games but even during TM's possession season we had some okay performances. I imagine there will be little to choose between either manager or season in the end. For JDT to make this work long-term he needs more cash than Venky's will be able or willing to provide. With that being the case this entire project is pointless and everybody involved is wasting their time, whilst getting paid handsomely to do so (fans excepted, obviously, we're paying for the privilege). 

 

[Mike E]

The possession football is absolutely fine AS LONG AS it's confined to up front.

Looking at where our best results have come from, I think we should line up:

              Kaminski

      Hyam Ayala Wharton 

Carter  Buckley  Wharton  Mola

          Hedges     Dack

                 Brereton

Defense should clear their lines wide and forward, and everyone in midfield is capable of creating.

The reason I offer little specific physicality in midfield is that our defensive resilience with a back 3 has been enough in many games, while the midfield simply provide 'bodies'.

Those bodies might as well be the creative players in our squad.

[BankEnd Rover]

Travis needs to be dropped! He slows us down and has defiantly been the weak link this season for us. The master of a backward pass… Get some fresh young bodies in there. I will be furious if A Wharton doesn’t make the squad. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by BankEnd Rover

[simongarnerisgod]

8 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Find it deeply worrying people have Travis in their starting 11. Be that on here or twitter.

He slows us down and has defiantly been the weak link this season for us. The master of a backward pass… Get some fresh young bodies in there. I will be furious if A Wharton doesn’t make the squad. 

he`s not at all comfy taking the ball in his own box,does his best work in the middle of the pitch breaking down the play,poor mans gary flitcroft imo

[broadsword]

8 hours ago, booth said:

That's a massive knee jerk reaction.

And that's coming from someone who had several of them on Saturday in the match day thread.

It's nowhere near as bad as Coyle and Mowbray.

Kean, ffs. Those were the darkest days you can imagine. I'm amazed the club is still in business.

Rovers have played well this season, we've ran some teams ragged. The defence have played exceptionally well on occasion, holding on to leads like never under Mowbray. Let's keep some faith that we're just having a bad run at the moment, something clicks and it'll turn around.

Nothing we can do anyway, we're bystanders. I think it's understandable after twelve years of venky misrule that people are conditioned to expecting the worst.

I don't think the position of just being coach helps. Shadowy Broughton, hovering behind, seems to be a lack of accountability. We've made some strange signings. Yes , we've had good spells. But you're only as good as your last game, and Preston gave us a doing.

 

I remember Brian kidd when he took over saying that the club has lost its heartbeat. I think that's where we're at now. It all depends from the owners, who just do not care and that sets the tone for the whole club. I don't think tomasson is an idiot by any means, maybe he's the right man at the wrong role at the right club or the wrong man in the right role at the right club. Or the right man in the right role at the wrong club.

 

Whatever, something just doesn't fit. The club is high up in the league, but it's clearly not telling the whole story, that's borne out by recent performances which just don't seem right.

I'm sorry, the club is dysfunctional and the only people to blame for that are the absentee owners. The only time they'll get anything right is when they put the club up for sale