v Norwich City (a) - 17/12/22

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

I think the catalyst was the change in the laws that allowed a goal kick to be taken short (inside the area). Sides started to look to exploit this…with (shall we say) mixed results.

Yes I think that was pivotal.

Coaches ignoring the truth that no matter how good the players are they will at some stage lose possession and that it is best for that to occur as far up the pitch as possible.

[AllRoverAsia]

5 hours ago, Mike E said:

(TLDR: First real shoots of JDT coaching results, imo.)

I was at the Disables Supporters Party a couple of Tuesdays ago and, chatting to Adam Wharton, I asked him what JDT meant by 'transitions'. As an average fan, I'm a bit clueless on jargon.

To paraphrase him, it's getting the ball back and turning it into an attack. Makes sense.

JDT said about 2 months ago, he wants to see John Buckley with 'more intensity in the transition moments' before dropping him and I saw exactly what he meant in the Norwich 2nd half. Several times tonight, including for our second goal, Buckley held fort in the middle of the park, chasing down for an interception and IMMEDIATELY passing forward or cross-field.

It was great to see and easily Buckley's best game this season, allowing Breo, Dack, Gally, Dolan, Hedges all to press for most of the game and (crucially) our defense to maintain its shape. Almost like a midfield general!

We're not perfect by any stretch, but it's the first real evidence I've seen of JDT saying something about training a player and it coming to fruition.

I hope it's the start of a wave of these and it's come just a bit later than we expected, rather than it being a one-off. We (and JDT) needed it after the last few weeks.

If we get that Buckley every game and (imo) alongside Adam Wharton, we'll have plenty of the football JDT first talked about.

I saw some stats on TV yesterday showing that Rovers have the most transitions against in the Championship.

It was, I think, 245 pre yesterdays game andั่ the next was under 200.

I don't know who produces those stats or website that shows them.

I was watching Sky Football channel.

If our transitions into attack improve that's progress.

 

[Mike E]

27 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I saw some stats on TV yesterday showing that Rovers have the most transitions against in the Championship.

It was, I think, 245 pre yesterdays game andั่ the next was under 200.

I don't know who produces those stats or website that shows them.

I was watching Sky Football channel.

If our transitions into attack improve that's progress.

 

Meaningless in reality. If you only have one transition and it's a goal, vs the oppo having several and not scoring etc.

Although (to contradict myself) if you have no transitions it suggests you're overrun by the oppo, or unable to get the ball off them in open play. So your only chances would come from your own set pieces.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Mike E

[Mashed Potatoes]

6 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Just a lil observation. Tyrhys Dolan has played 881 minutes this season in the league, which is less than 10 games worth of football. With that, he has 3 goals and 4 assists. So 7 goal contributions, in less than 10 full games worth. That really isn't bad going for a lad who takes a lot of stick from some quarters on here.

Correct. It's a goal contribution every 125 minutes which is some way ahead of the next best Brereton with one every 165 minutes. Best in the division is Benson with one for every 80 minutes or so. It's a very good stat for Dolan especially for a player who is still only 20 years old (and who doesn't seem to throw a tantrum if he's not in the starting line up or squad).

Edited December 18, 2022 by Mashed Potatoes

[Mike E]

56 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

JDT's comments alluded to his lack of game time being down to fitness, which I find hard to believe really with Dolan as he always seems a bundle of energy. He looked a lot more confident and ultimately productive last night and should definitely start boxing day. I've always maintained I'd absolutely hate to play against Dolan and it was clearly how Hanley felt as he gripped him at one point and also another of their players fumed at him late on.

I noticed something of a scuffle with Hernandez and Dolan in which Hernandez appeared to comment while tugging on Dolan's hair.

Maybe something and nothing, or maybe I'm allowing my own sensitivities to cloud my thoughts (purely speculative), but given Dolan is a POC I did wonder if something racist had been said to him.

I can't rightly think of any other reason someone would deliberately tug on a mixed race man's hair while the ref wasn't looking.

[M_B]

Welcome back Harry Pickering, we attack and defend with much more balance when he plays. I don't think last night's massively improved performance with him back in the side was a coincidence. 

Let's hope he stays fit. 

[BRFC4EVA]

I'm surprised that so many aren't raving more about the victory ysday! Especially when you read the first few pages of predictions of us getting battered..

 

 

We've just won away from home against the team in 4th*, a team favoured for promotion, at a ground that we never seem to win at! I know Norwich aren't playing great and there is some fan anger, they're still right up there tho!

Remember how we used to never win against a top 6 side or against anyone when we were in the top 6? We've been top 6 for the entire first half of the season!

I don't want to sound like a happy clapper, cos I was frustrated as anyone at the derby defeats and the inexplicable passing it about at the back. However overall he deserves a huge amount of credit. 

I think it's a fantastic result and I'm delighted. Sets us up perfectly for the Christmas period!

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by BRFC4EVA

[47er]

8 hours ago, arbitro said:

Well, well, well. I honestly don't think anybody saw that coming. Tomasson has rightly been hammered by the vast majority of Rovers fans over the last few weeks but to give him his due credit he got it pretty much spot on today. His team selection and tactics were what won us the game today. The pace, aggression and intensity so obviously missing recently was there tonight in abundance. Tomasson went back to his front four tonight and rotated them to share the workload particularly when pressing the Norwich defenders. And it worked a treat. After twenty minutes the home crowd were agitated about how their team were trying to play out when the players aren't really good enough to. We all know how that feels 😂. I didn't think there was a real stand out performance tonight but Buckley and Dolan deserve real credit in my opinion.

Hopefully Tomasson has seen the error of his ways and continues to mix up the long and short passing. Two incidents aside the risk taking was minimal and the reward from longer passing resulted in a goal and several other chances.

Agree with you about Buckley. I"m guessing he's back now for a long spell provided he plays to that standard. Really confident on the ball and we need that in midfield from someone.

One unusual thing I noticed, on 3 different occasions we were set up for a final through ball and a clear strike at goal. And on all 3 the passer got the angle right but the ball was so underhit that a defender had time to step in and cut it off. i was wondering if the grass was long or something.  

That's in addition to another 3 occasions where a player took the shot himself where a colleague was in a much better position and screaming for the ball. Dolan with Diaz late on was one example, can't remember the others.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

24 minutes ago, 47er said:

Agree with you about Buckley. I"m guessing he's back now for a long spell provided he plays to that standard. Really confident on the ball and we need that in midfield from someone.

One unusual thing I noticed, on 3 different occasions we were set up for a final through ball and a clear strike at goal. And on all 3 the passer got the angle right but the ball was so underhit that a defender had time to step in and cut it off. i was wondering if the grass was long or something.  

That's in addition to another 3 occasions where a player took the shot himself where a colleague was in a much better position and screaming for the ball. Dolan with Diaz late on was one example, can't remember the others.

 

Decision making at speed under pressure is what separates the top players from the also rans.

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

I think the catalyst was the change in the laws that allowed a goal kick to be taken short (inside the area). Sides started to look to exploit this…with (shall we say) mixed results.

I wholly agree Ian. That particular law change has had a seismic effect on how many managers try to play as a poor and limited imitation of the top teams. With the correct players it's not as much of a risk but as we saw with Norwich (and ourselves recently) some players simply aren't good enough to do it. Significantly the Norwich fans by us were booing after twenty minutes yesterday and as the game went on they were mocking their manager and several players.

[tomphil]

8 hours ago, Upside Down said:

I am honestly intrigued as to how a total dolloper like Mowbray has such a messianic hold over a section of our fans. I don't ever remember experiencing anything like that with Dalglish, Souness or Hughes and they have by far been our best managers probably since the early 20th century. 

Cult like behaviour that the likes of twitter etc provide a platform for, it's the same with most subjects.

I was surprised at the number of posts i saw on there and faceache outright crying over him and slagging JDT.  I mean come on we hardly shone in derby games with him at the helm did we.

It's like they've been waiting for opportunity to let it all out and the dingle debacle and Preston no show provided the perfect ammo.

I was as angry as anyone but i don't care what happens this season - here or Sunderland - not once have i or will i pine for that self righteous smoggie.

[Herbie6590]

Extracts of today’s League Paper…

[tomphil]

Dolan was superb yesterday and so close to the hatrick he deserved but that game showed what he's all about and why he's so important to this squad.  He will be in and out because some games don't suit him but any match where there'll be space up top and pressing / counter attacking and he's the man you need.

Mowbrays best signings came with little or no money and he was one of them and old Tone used him quite well. I'd like to see JDT perhaps utilise him a bit more than just coming on 65 mins to try and close out games, which he is also very good at by the way.

 

[Irish_Rover]

21 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Cult like behaviour that the likes of twitter etc provide a platform for, it's the same with most subjects.

I was surprised at the number of posts i saw on there and faceache outright crying over him and slagging JDT.  I mean come on we hardly shone in derby games with him at the helm did we.

It's like they've been waiting for opportunity to let it all out and the dingle debacle and Preston no show provided the perfect ammo.

I was as angry as anyone but i don't care what happens this season - here or Sunderland - not once have i or will i pine for that self righteous smoggie.

100%

People seem to have short memories and bizarrely forgotten the yearly death spirals.

I am guessing those people are still harking back to the promotion from league 1 and championing him as a result.

He definately provided a much needed refresh at the start of his reign but he was finished here by the end. Not in a million years would I be pining for him back no matter how badly JDT might do.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Dolan was superb yesterday and so close to the hatrick he deserved but that game showed what he's all about and why he's so important to this squad.  He will be in and out because some games don't suit him but any match where there'll be space up top and pressing / counter attacking and he's the man you need.

Mowbrays best signings came with little or no money and he was one of them and old Tone used him quite well. I'd like to see JDT perhaps utilise him a bit more than just coming on 65 mins to try and close out games, which he is also very good at by the way.

 

Dolan looked great in that game against Ajax reserves. He should have been picked on the strength of that alone. He provides some much needed energy to the team. He’s one of the few that can turn a bad long ball into a good pass. There are no lost causes for him. He’s essential if we’re going to play the high pressing game we were supposed to be playing.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[AllRoverAsia]

21 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Extracts of today’s League Paper…

JRC deserves the 7 and so do all of our 6ers.

Pukki and Sargent were a 7 for Norwich

[superniko]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Yes I think that was pivotal.

Coaches ignoring the truth that no matter how good the players are they will at some stage lose possession and that it is best for that to occur as far up the pitch as possible.

It’s probably already been mentioned in this thread as we’re all talking about it but Sky flicked up some stat last night about giving possession away in your own third. I can’t remember how it was worded.

To the surprise of no one, Rovers were #1 and by a huge difference. 

Edit: It was on the message below mine… I should have read on 

Edited December 18, 2022 by superniko

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

28 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Cult like behaviour that the likes of twitter etc provide a platform for, it's the same with most subjects.

I was surprised at the number of posts i saw on there and faceache outright crying over him and slagging JDT.  I mean come on we hardly shone in derby games with him at the helm did we.

It's like they've been waiting for opportunity to let it all out and the dingle debacle and Preston no show provided the perfect ammo.

I was as angry as anyone but i don't care what happens this season - here or Sunderland - not once have i or will i pine for that self righteous smoggie.

If you go on the Sunderland site quite a few of them have already got him sussed. The latest foible to emerge is for him to be singling out certain players for apparently unwarranted criticism. They already detest his press conferences.

[superniko]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Chaffinch said:

After 23 games last season we were third with 42 points. After 23 games this season we are third with 39 points. Which 23 games did we prefer? 

Let’s just pray the next 23 are better than last years!!

[joey_big_nose]

28 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Extracts of today’s League Paper…

Doesn't give you any faith in the player ratings if they can't get the formation right... 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

My son did eventually put the match on the telly - “ Best performance I’ve seen this season, shame it was two games too late “.

His M-O-M = Dolan.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[superniko]

39 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Extracts of today’s League Paper…

Very bizarre ratings and just a copy of flash scores formation. 50/50 this journo even watched the match id imagine 

[booth]

8 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Just a lil observation. Tyrhys Dolan has played 881 minutes this season in the league, which is less than 10 games worth of football. With that, he has 3 goals and 4 assists. So 7 goal contributions, in less than 10 full games worth. That really isn't bad going for a lad who takes a lot of stick from some quarters on here.

My main criticism is usually that I don’t know what he is. Attacking midfielder? Wide player? Striker? Which is mostly not his fault. Yesterday he actually looked like a decent striker in the Dickov mould. His decision making could be improved, he passes to Brereton and it’s 3-0.

Which brings me onto the other issue, which is he’s still greedy, but he’s also still young. Anyone remember when Matt Jansen wouldn’t pass?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, booth said:

My main criticism is usually that I don’t know what he is. Attacking midfielder? Wide player? Striker? Which is mostly not his fault. Yesterday he actually looked like a decent striker in the Dickov mould. His decision making could be improved, he passes to Brereton and it’s 3-0.

Which brings me onto the other issue, which is he’s still greedy, but he’s also still young. Anyone remember when Matt Jansen wouldn’t pass?

Yep, Souey sorted Jansen’s decision making out.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

9 hours ago, Upside Down said:

I am honestly intrigued as to how a total dolloper like Mowbray has such a messianic hold over a section of our fans. I don't ever remember experiencing anything like that with Dalglish, Souness or Hughes and they have by far been our best managers probably since the early 20th century. 

One word - Venkys