v Wigan Athletic (h) - 6/2/23

[Exiled_Rover]

3 hours ago, 47er said:

How is Hedges better?--he doesn't play regularly and he has shown no more than he did when he first came. JRC---agree.

Pears yes but Kiminski balances that. Dolan---you're joking surely? Rarely sighted. Travis---seems you agree he's gone backwards. What's Buckley is Buckley mean?

All that adds up to a deficit.

Hedges has been one of our players of the season - JDT was shoehorning him in as an inverted RWB at times because he's one of the few players we have who can receive the ball in tight spaces and not lose it. He literally didn't play under Mowbray.

Dolan has been more direct under JDT. He overplayed it under Mowbray, which then killed the attack. At best he's a 20 minute impact sub anyway.

Buckley is Buckley. Sometimes he's picks out a defence splitting pass, or plays on the half turn and opens up acres of space to run into. Sometimes he's half asleep and gets his pocket picked on the edge of his own area. He is what he is as a player at this point, unfortunately.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Exiled_Rover

[Exiled_Rover]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Can we drop all this nonsense about we'd have won, and even comfortably, if we'd taken our chances.

Every professional football club have fans, and managers, spurting out if only we'd taken that chance or those chances, if only we'd defended better, if only referees were better.

The league table does not reflect 'IFS' but is the resultant of the cold hard reality of results.

I think at the moment we are a total sh1te football club from top to bottom playing, in the main, uninspiring and boring football on a sh1te pitch in an ageing and tired stadium - luck has played a huge part in us fluking a few results (that we didn't deserve) in the first half of the season.  Just look at our results since the World Cup - we are heading for the bottom half of the league.

We have just failed to beat bottom of the league Wigan at home who had scraped 3 points from their 9 previous games.  It's indefensible.

I think more and more supporters will vote with their feet and anyone who does not think our club is in crisis should wake up and smell the coffee.

Which supporters are voting with their feet? You're down to the bare bones at Ewood. If this lot leave (and I'm not sure why they would after sitting through 5 years of Mowbray) then you simply don't have a club.

We created enough chances to win the game yesterday. We were completely untroubled by Wigan (sans their player hitting Pears with a forearm to the face).

Unfortunately we have Vale / Gallagher as our #9, a massively out of form Brereton-Diaz and a fading Dack - there just aren't any goals in the team.

[BankEnd Rover]

Just re-watched the match. My god we are passive. The midfield just isn’t working. Both Buckley & Trav are just hiding all the time. The latter played a lot better when he was pushed to RB. 
 

Yes we need a striker but my god that centre midfield really isn’t helping. Sooner A Wharton is back the better.

[Guest]

Feck me that was a dry old game. You can tell something is wrong, just from the body language - the only one out there who seemed to enjoy himself last night was Sorba Thomas, and that was only because it was new to him. Everyone else looked absolutely disinterested, and especially Ben Brereton, who has now morphed into Ben Cant be Bothered to. Earlier in the season he would have leathered that early chance into the top corner, rather than passing it leisurely to their goalie.

A spectacle worth of nothing but yawns and disdain in my eyes.

I know we don't pay top dollar to our players, but bloody hell, you'd expect a bit more of a tune from them than that.

Shocking.

[lraC]

2 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

For the first time in my life I actively chose not to watch the game last night, and watched Happy Valley on catch-up instead. Sounds like I made the right choice but let me tell you when people like me are doing that, we are in a fucking mess.

I am abroad so can't go, but paid the £140 to get all the games on Rovers TV that are not on Sky etc. 

Although I watched it, I enjoyed happy valley the night before a lot more. For me to say that is also a sign that the club are sinking. I am half tempted to go out somewhere on Saturday afternoon, instead of suffering yet another display like this.

 

[rovers11]

Two positives from last night: Travis had his best game in a couple of years and Thomas looks like the sort of player we have been missing. Very direct and gets the ball in the box. Most of our players get the ball and pass it backwards or sideways.

I thought JRC was good again but still not convinced he's good enough to be a starter for a team with aspirations of top 6. Same can be said of other starters last night - Carter, Pickering, Buckley, Vale, Pears, Travis. None of those are top 6 quality. 

[jim mk2]

51 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Which supporters are voting with their feet? You're down to the bare bones at Ewood. If this lot leave (and I'm not sure why they would after sitting through 5 years of Mowbray) then you simply don't have a club.

We were down to 5,000 or so in the 1980s. 

[lraC]

6 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

We were down to 5,000 or so in the 1980s. 

People tend to forget that the likes of Chelsea and Newcastle were down to much lower crowds than then get these days too.

Sub 10,000 even for them, was not unheard of, back in the day.

[Hasta]

 

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

We were much more direct last night than in previous games, not so much farting around at the back. Was that because Pears was in goal, because Kaminski loves playing the ball around his box, or has the manager had a change of heart?

The end result was much the same because we did not threaten to score again (how can we with that forward line?), but at least the ball was being moved forward quicker.

 

 

I'm not entirely sure it was more direct. I just think Wigan didn't press us anywhere near as high as other teams do. Certainly against Middlesborough when we played well first half we were more direct.

Last night was the same pass it around at the back mundanely. I lost count of the number of times in the second half we get a corner or a throw in their half, and it ends up back at the feet of our own centre halves.

We did switch it long and wide to Thomas quite a lot, but I doubt he will have many more games for us where he is left in that much space. First half he was pretty bad and looked like he was trying to hard, although second half seemed much better.

 

[roversfan99]

11 hours ago, booth said:

Course there is an excuse. Now that Brereton is daydreaming about pastures new, we don't have any goalscorers. This was always going to happen. Some of us told you this last January.

None of those players will do what you want, which is score goals.

You're the manager, what do you do? You either play shit player A, shit player B.

Gallagher - shit.
Vale - shit.
Dolan - Mr inconsistent, too small to be a target man. He'd be my reluctant pick as he does chip in with the goals.

Brereton - shit. Yes he was absolutely dog shit, and has been for a number of games now. Even if we could sell him no one would want him.

Play Leonard - I'd be up for that, he can't be any worse. I think he's scored something like 6 goals in 10 matches in the under 21s. Will that translate to Championship football? We shouldn't be relying on a 19 year old newcomer for goals but that's where Swagg, Gregg and co have left us.

That squad won't improve. You can't improve players that are clearly hopeless. You can't improve a squad with our useless bunch behind the scenes. I can't blame the manager for the state of the squad and the abject dross he's been left to work with.

We score our chances tonight and we win. It was the same against Boro and Bristol.

What chances? We had one proper one, that is it really.

Vale is still considerably poorer than the admittedly limited alternatives.

11 hours ago, booth said:

The start of last season, and the second half of last season were absolutely appalling, mirroring the managers attitude.

Let's not forget he gave Gallagher a new contract whilst deciding we didn't play with strikers. Hence the situation we're in now of struggling to score goals.

The football on offer last season was far more entertaining than this season which is as dull as anything going back to Appleton, lets see if we finish higher or lower then we can judge comparatively as ultimately the league table is the important thing.

5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Finally someone who has removed their emotion.

If BBD or Gally were in anything better than diabolical form we’d have beaten Wigan by 3 or 4 playing the same way tonight.

Goals change games and we / the manager are getting badly let down by the forwards at the minute. Which is the reason JDT is fuming with GB etc.

Playing the same way? Lacking in seemingly a game plan, lacking in tempo, not creating chances and ultimately not looking overly arsed, creating one proper chance.

Tomasson has a point with what he says re the dysfunctional running of the club, make no mistake, but he is not doing his job very well in the last couple of months himself.

5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I know the manager is getting flak here and I understand it…but honestly the players he was left with in the summer are absolutely dross. Mowbray never had a squad as bad as this, including the year we went down.

It’s an absolute miracle that we’re safe from relegation. 

I can only presume that you are taking the piss. That squad contained Steele, Greer, Brown, Henley, Lowe, Akpan, Guthrie, Emnes, Bennett and Feeney.

This one has Kaminski, Wharton, Ayala, Pickering, Buckley, Travis, Dolan, Brereton and Gallagher who all featured regularly for a team that finished 8th last season, added to by Hyam and the returning Dack. How is that core worse than the team Coyle left or performing miracles to be safe from relegation?

[Hasta]

11 hours ago, rock steady said:

JDT post match

Transfer window reflection towards the end.

Only just got around to watching that.

Ouch. That's a bit more than a crack appearing. He could have easily batted that question away like he batted the one about BBD lack of confidence. He has chosen to make it clear he was not happy with the recruitment strategy of GB even had the deadline day fiasco not happened.

[booth]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What chances? We had one proper one, that is it really.

We had several chances, but you were probably painting your JDT out sign at the time so missed them.

But okay, I'll play your game. We had one proper one, and didn't score it. We do and it's 1-0, we take three points.

I'll probably invoke the Worlds angriest Burnley supporter from the Dingles thread with this one, but as I've said on there, I've watched Burnley look ordinary this season. They've had one late surge forward, had a chance and taken it, and 3 points. The best teams do that. When we won the Premier League we could do that.

JDT is expected to nick a goal with a desperate forward line including a disinterested half Chilean, a man who would be better plying his trade as a hod carrier, and a young lad who is completely out of his depth. He's had no help from above to improve this, and I expect more of the same in Summer.

[Andy]

Totally agree with the point made a page or two back, on the team being scared to lose.

Scared to take a risk, scared to make a run or take a shot.

This is where your big personalities and experienced players come in; sadly we have neither.

I will give Trav credit for last night, he tried make things happen and did make some good runs/passes - and obviously Sorba was promising.

But we need something different if we’re not going to let the season (and the top 6) drift away from us.

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

No he doesn't - they love it when he overplays it. He often beats a man with the first trick, then goes back to beat them again, allowing the defender / defence to recover.

If he was quicker he could probably get away with that style in this league - as it is the advice from JDT and his team is correct.

Can’t agree on this. He’s having his natural game squashed out of him to become a 5 yard passer. A player with a bit of individuality and who offers something a bit different being stifled by the tedious playing style Tomasson prioritises above all else.

[arbitro]

I sometimes wonder if there are restrictions on our centre backs. Yesterday (and for the umpteenth time this season) there were lots of opportunities for Wharton and Carter to advance and stride out with the ball as Wigan weren't too interested in pressing. But on nearly every occasion they opted for a safe sideways or backwards pass and we retained the ball but in areas of no threat at all to Wigan. I sit in the JWU so I have an elevated view and lots of people have been commenting on this. I don't know if it's as apparent from ground level.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

6 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I sometimes wonder if there are restrictions on our centre backs. Yesterday (and for the umpteenth time this season) there were lots of opportunities for Wharton and Carter to advance and stride out with the ball as Wigan weren't too interested in pressing. But on nearly every occasion they opted for a safe sideways or backwards pass and we retained the ball but in areas of no threat at all to Wigan. I sit in the JWU so I have an elevated view and lots of people have been commenting on this. I don't know if it's as apparent from ground level.

Although Carter did appear on the overlap and crossed from the byline in the second half

[roversfan99]

35 minutes ago, booth said:

We had several chances, but you were probably painting your JDT out sign at the time so missed them.

But okay, I'll play your game. We had one proper one, and didn't score it. We do and it's 1-0, we take three points.

I'll probably invoke the Worlds angriest Burnley supporter from the Dingles thread with this one, but as I've said on there, I've watched Burnley look ordinary this season. They've had one late surge forward, had a chance and taken it, and 3 points. The best teams do that. When we won the Premier League we could do that.

JDT is expected to nick a goal with a desperate forward line including a disinterested half Chilean, a man who would be better plying his trade as a hod carrier, and a young lad who is completely out of his depth. He's had no help from above to improve this, and I expect more of the same in Summer.

I think your argument isn't helped by the childish opening line, I haven't asked for a managerial change for a start.

I have never once defended those above the manager either, the whole club is and always has been dysfunctional. The jury is very much out on Broughton who has not performed well enough in the transfer market, Waggott is a clown and of course the biggest problem will always be the owners.

But that doesn't mean that it isn't acceptable in a home game against a terrible team who are bottom of the league has been conceding loads of goals to not create a proper chance after the fifth minute. It's not as if we had a number of chances and failed to take them. We don't look like a team that is well drilled on how to score goals. There surely is enough dynamism at the managers disposal with the likes of Dolan, Hedges, Thomas etc to at least show a bit more urgency. We have Dack who will sniff out chances if we could get near the opposition goal. There is no interchanging between the attacking players, they don't look like they train together. Then there is set pieces, is there a less effective team from set pieces in the league than us. It is drab even beyond any misgivings right at the top.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

We were down to 5,000 or so in the 1980s. 

We'll soon be back down to those levels if this shit show continues.

[booth]

54 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The football on offer last season was far more entertaining than this season which is as dull as anything going back to Appleton, lets see if we finish higher or lower then we can judge comparatively as ultimately the league table is the important thing.

I see you’ve forgotten about the beginning of last season and the second half of last season which saw some records being broken for the wrong reason.

But it was also a season where we had Diaz at his best for half a season.

A season where we had a more settled team.

A season where the manager got more then one player through the door in January.

Yes let’s compare it to that.

 

[booth]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think your argument isn't helped by the childish opening line, I haven't asked for a managerial change for a start.

I have never once defended those above the manager either, the whole club is and always has been dysfunctional. The jury is very much out on Broughton who has not performed well enough in the transfer market, Waggott is a clown and of course the biggest problem will always be the owners.

But that doesn't mean that it isn't acceptable in a home game against a terrible team who are bottom of the league has been conceding loads of goals to not create a proper chance after the fifth minute. It's not as if we had a number of chances and failed to take them. We don't look like a team that is well drilled on how to score goals. There surely is enough dynamism at the managers disposal with the likes of Dolan, Hedges, Thomas etc to at least show a bit more urgency. We have Dack who will sniff out chances if we could get near the opposition goal. There is no interchanging between the attacking players, they don't look like they train together. Then there is set pieces, is there a less effective team from set pieces in the league than us. It is drab even beyond any misgivings right at the top.

So childish that you wrote a lot of words without addressing any of mine.  So I’ll boil it down to a simple question.

Who scores the goals in that squad?

[arbitro]

5 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Although Carter did appear on the overlap and crossed from the byline in the second half

I'm talking specifically about being in their central defensive position and the possibility of advancing to or beyond the half way line. We don't move teams around enough. Our sluggish and predictable passing at the back simply enables opponents to keep their shape.

[pick32]

6/11 being Academy Graduates and 3/4 at the back. I think that aspect looks promising. It’s the attacking talent. nobody since Gallagher and Derbyshire is shocking.

[roverandout]

3 hours ago, Displaced Rover said:

I got in late and only had it on from 5 mins in, switched off at half time when I thought the nil nil was inevitable.

Devoid of quality and even more depressingly any sense that there's actually a plan/structure/vision being implemented by JDT.  

Me too.  First half I thought why should i waste the rest of my evening when I could be doing something more interesting 

[roversfan99]

43 minutes ago, booth said:

I see you’ve forgotten about the beginning of last season and the second half of last season which saw some records being broken for the wrong reason.

But it was also a season where we had Diaz at his best for half a season.

A season where we had a more settled team.

A season where the manager got more then one player through the door in January.

Yes let’s compare it to that.

 

When we were off form, Mowbray was rightly criticised.

We hardly invested loads in January, our main signing instantly got injured, aside from that the loan signing of Giles is comparable to Thomas, chuck in Hedges and Zeefuik on loan and its hardly a huge difference.

I am in agreement of the flaws throughout the club, Broughton/Waggott and of course the owners all bigger problems than Tomasson but he isnt exempt now from criticism just as Mowbray wasnt.

40 minutes ago, booth said:

So childish that you wrote a lot of words without addressing any of mine.  So I’ll boil it down to a simple question.

Who scores the goals in that squad?

My point isn't that we should be banging in the goals. My point is that we don't look like a team that can attack at all.

I am not accepting that our current squad shouldnt be capable of creating more than 1 decent chance at home to bottom of the league Wigan who usually leak goals.

We for months havent played like a team that knows how it is expected to attack or works on its attacking. If we created chances and then missed them, maybe the point about the lack of a goalscorer would be more pertinent, indeed we didnt have Dack available last season.

Also, why are we not a threat from set pieces?

If you genuinely believe that this side is attacking as well as it could do with the personnel we have then fair enough, the manager cant be blamed. 

[Wheelton Blue]

57 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I sometimes wonder if there are restrictions on our centre backs. Yesterday (and for the umpteenth time this season) there were lots of opportunities for Wharton and Carter to advance and stride out with the ball as Wigan weren't too interested in pressing. But on nearly every occasion they opted for a safe sideways or backwards pass and we retained the ball but in areas of no threat at all to Wigan. I sit in the JWU so I have an elevated view and lots of people have been commenting on this. I don't know if it's as apparent from ground level.

I have the same view.

I think they're erring on the side of caution for the sake of possession vs taking a gamble.