Appeal to EFL

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It's arbitration, not the Court of Appeal.

I know, it's instead of. It's still costly.

[Tugayisgod]

Rich Sharpe not sure it's gone that far yet 

 

[RoverDom]

If we feel we have a strong case we have to pursue it to the end regardless of whether or not it affects our on the pitch performance. The EFL can't be allowed to hide behind an appeals process that has always found in favour of the EFL. If we are genuinely in the right we need to make the EFL suffer for the good of everyone in the league not just Rovers. 

[RevidgeBlue]

15 hours ago, BigBar said:

So go be clear, some feel that GB deserves credit for owning up to a fuck up that he was a part of and should almost be praised for it? Not sure I agree. Yes, football is flooded with shady, scummy characters but this was far from a noble act. Can't afford such errors at this level.

Absolutely.

Plus, and this is the most relevant point for me, GB only came out and did his sheepish interview after there was a massive backlash against the disgrace that was the official Club statement which completely lacked even the merest hint of contrition.

Imo If Broughton was sincere, he'd have done that interview first and the official statement would never have seen the light of day.

[RevidgeBlue]

19 hours ago, goozburger said:

Do we really expect a Director of Football to be learning from his mistakes as seemingly basic as this? Is he an intern? An apprentice? Or a Director of Football being paid a salary most of us could only dream of?

We seem to live in an era where a hollow taking of responsibility, usually in the form of a speech about "the buck stops with me", allows them to survive their own incompetence or even dishonesty. There is usually little to nothing to ever justify their survival thereafter.

On that basis, did Broughton not say that the communication aspect of the deadline day saga should have been handled better? So, why has there yet again been no update from the club, even to just say "we are still waiting for a decision"? Believe it or not, I'm actually not that bothered about communication because I find it all bullsh*t and I'm only bothered about actions, but if Broughton is making his "communication should be better" bed, then he's certainly not lying in it.

Just get shut of him and appoint somebody competent at the job... Umm, well that's what a normal club would do, at least.

Great post. Appears to be a former Academy Director promoted well beyond his station at this point.

[Exiled_Rover]

44 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

Admire in a way the fact Rovers are not giving up on this and that they feel they are in the right.

But it's getting to the stage where it's probably not going to affect our position in the table, wherever that may be (and personally don't think it will be play offs)

Can imagine winning the case and O'brien then turning round and saying "actually I'm off to the mls)

To be honest his agent should have had a quiet word with us about this already.

"Don't bother, lads, he's going to spend the next 6 months in Miami / LA".

[RoverCanada]

FYI, MLS transfer window is currently open and doesn't close until 24 April. The season starts in 10 days, running until the end of October.

It's not uncommon for European players to join MLS clubs for loans. For example, Richie Laryea, another Forest player, is back on loan with Toronto FC for a loan until June 2023, presumably timed so he'll be back in time for training with Forest for 2023-24.

Should it go to league arbitration (I've long lost track of the levels of appeal/who has actual authority over the EFL...), hopefully it would move relatively swiftly, or at least something Rovers will keep in mind with the MLS timetables above for O'Brien's sake. He'll still be able to fit in a ~4-month MLS loan if this drags on for a couple more weeks.

Hell, as it continues to drag on, it may become more about extracting compensation from the EFL rather than pushing this loan through (all assuming we do actually have a strong case of course 🙂), even if that'd be little comfort for this season...

[RevidgeBlue]

18 hours ago, phili said:

I think behind the scenes he has done a lot. Transfers are just one area he is responsible for.

But he has managed to have most of the training gear and tech upgraded, upgrade medical department and gear, expanded analytics side and scouting and he is improving a lot of things at the academy. For once since our relegation or probably since Sam's sacking we are investing and replacing on things we should be doing. So I see a lot of positives from his appointment.

It's just the January window was very poor. It just looks like the evening of the 30th of January, Venky's gave them a bit more cash and they unfortunately couldn't get things sorted. I think if there is a repeat of this then it's probably time for a change.

I think we really need to change club secretary however as this is not the first time he has come up short. 

As a minor point, seems to be a bit of an agenda building up without any foundation against the "Club Secretary" on here. I don't know him from Adam so I have absolutely no dog in that fight but someone I know that knows him says he is usually pedantic to a fault. Plus I would point out myself that issues of this particular nature haven't arisen previously.

Onto GB, we really saw the benefit of the supposed upgrades to the recruitment department in the last window didn't we? It reminds me a bit of Waggott boasting we'd installed "viewing areas" and the latest tech down at Brockhall during a similarly poor window a couple of years or so ago when we failed to sign anyone of note.

EDIT: Plus, you'd hope a competent recruitment department would know the transfer budget they need at this level and to have negotiated it with the owners well before the transfer window. Not go running cap in hand to the owners ers for more money at the last minute.

We seemingly saw it all before the first season we were promoted when we drew a blank all summer then bought Brereton for £7m and failed with a £4m bid for Freeman in the last 48 hours of the window. You would have hoped we'd be a lot more professional now with a DOF - but maybe not.

Edited February 15, 2023 by RevidgeBlue

[Mike E]

16 hours ago, BigBar said:

So go be clear, some feel that GB deserves credit for owning up to a fuck up that he was a part of and should almost be praised for it? Not sure I agree. Yes, football is flooded with shady, scummy characters but this was far from a noble act. Can't afford such errors at this level.

Not so much 'praise', but it's better than anything we've had from any level of administration in 12 years. I'd be reluctant to force out the only grown up in the room.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Not so much 'praise', but it's better than anything we've had from any level of administration in 12 years. I'd be reluctant to force out the only grown up in the room.

Genuine or trying to save a bit of face after an unexpectedly adverse reaction? 

I know which side I fall on.

[Herbie6590]

https://www.brfcs.com/magazine/articles/rovers-take-efl-to-arbitration-panel/366

[Sweaty Gussets]

3 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

https://www.brfcs.com/magazine/articles/rovers-take-efl-to-arbitration-panel/366

Good to see the club showing some bollocks for once!

 

[Mike E]

33 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Genuine or trying to save a bit of face after an unexpectedly adverse reaction? 

I know which side I fall on.

Seemed genuine to me, less than 2 days after the window closed, and backed up by subsequent actions by the club to appeal the decision.

If it were only a face-saving exercise, why would we bother with all this legal expense?

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Good to see the club showing some bollocks for once!

 

Or wasting money on a lost cause. We do have form for it with the Berg case and the aborted plans to flog off part of Brockhall.

Then, even if any appeal was successful the deal may not be worth it if we're out of play off contention and/or the player doesn't wish to join us by then 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, Mike E said:

If it  were only a face-saving exercise, why would we bother with all this legal expense?

All a face saving exercise imo. Still considerably cheaper than signing any players.!

[Andy]

49 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

As a minor point, seems to be a bit of an agenda building up without any foundation against the "Club Secretary" on here. I don't know him from Adam so I have absolutely no dog in that fight but someone I know that knows him says he is usually pedantic to a fault. Plus I would point out myself that issues of this particular nature haven't arisen previously.

On the contrary, I’ve heard from people who’ve worked closely with him over the years that he’s incompetent, rude and arrogant.

Furthermore, this isn’t the first time this kind of cock up has happened; it’s just the first time we’ve been aware of it (as fans).

If he’s at fault here, it’s unfair for GB to take the hit and we should be transparent on where the fault lies.

By shuffling it under the carpet, we’re leaving ourselves open for repeat issues in the future.

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, Andy said:

On the contrary, I’ve heard from people who’ve worked closely with him over the years that he’s incompetent, rude and arrogant.

As I say, don't know him from Adam, but, being "rude and arrogant" wouldn't disqualify him from filing paperwork correctly and on time.

If he's "incompetent" that would be a different matter. But if he was, how has he survived 20 (?) years at the Club?

[neophox]

If a club was fighting so much for a player and I was the player I would had feels wanted..

[neophox]

Also it's a case we may say that they screwed it up and it could be worth billions if we're not promoted .

[Jimmy612]

So he's 100% missing the next 4 games (based on us having 2-weeks to put a case forward).  The absolute earliest he could play seemingly would be 4th March, with 12 games of the season remaining.  He's played 94minutes of football since Halloween, and hasn't played since he came on for 20mins vs Leicester in mid-January. 

We're 19th in the form table since the Burnley debacle, and have dropped from 2nd to 9th.  We've scored 8 goals in those 10 games and didn't sign a striker in January with our two current incumbents having managed 4 goals in the league all season.  We've also conceded 17 goals in that period, although they do include hammerings from Burnley, PNE and Rotherham. 

At what point do we write this one off?   Having watched us all season, in my opinion we're not going up and we're not going to regain any semblance of form because frankly, we never had any.  I can't pinpoint one part of the season where we played well - October was a good month but I can't pretend we played well vs Sunderland, Birmingham or Huddersfield when we picked up maximum points.

I'd like to see O'Brien playing for us, but is he going to turn our season around and drag us to the playoffs?  Everyone says he was crucial in getting Hudds there last season, but IMO the most crucial part of that formula was the manager.  He's better than ours. 

Legal costs followed by relatively high wages at the end of it (if successful).... and will we gain anything at the end of it all? 

 

[Miller11]

14 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

As I say, don't know him from Adam, but, being "rude and arrogant" wouldn't disqualify him from filing paperwork correctly and on time.

If he's "incompetent" that would be a different matter. But if he was, how has he survived 20 (?) years at the Club?

He hasn’t. He was appointed in June 2012. Incompetence has never been a barrier for as long as he’s been at Ewood.

[rigger]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy612 said:

So he's 100% missing the next 4 games (based on us having 2-weeks to put a case forward).  The absolute earliest he could play seemingly would be 4th March, with 12 games of the season remaining.  He's played 94minutes of football since Halloween, and hasn't played since he came on for 20mins vs Leicester in mid-January. 

We're 19th in the form table since the Burnley debacle, and have dropped from 2nd to 9th.  We've scored 8 goals in those 10 games and didn't sign a striker in January with our two current incumbents having managed 4 goals in the league all season.  We've also conceded 17 goals in that period, although they do include hammerings from Burnley, PNE and Rotherham. 

At what point do we write this one off?   Having watched us all season, in my opinion we're not going up and we're not going to regain any semblance of form because frankly, we never had any.  I can't pinpoint one part of the season where we played well - October was a good month but I can't pretend we played well vs Sunderland, Birmingham or Huddersfield when we picked up maximum points.

I'd like to see O'Brien playing for us, but is he going to turn our season around and drag us to the playoffs?  Everyone says he was crucial in getting Hudds there last season, but IMO the most crucial part of that formula was the manager.  He's better than ours. 

Legal costs followed by relatively high wages at the end of it (if successful).... and will we gain anything at the end of it all? 

 

If the Rovers were successful in their appeal, wouldn't the EFL have to pay our legal costs and maybe compensation ?

[Jimmy612]

13 minutes ago, rigger said:

If the Rovers were successful in their appeal, wouldn't the EFL have to pay our legal costs and maybe compensation ?

Not sure.  I understand that in a small claims court you aren't liable to pay legal costs in the result of a loss, no idea about a court of arbitration.  It's still a relatively big if at this stage either way. 

[den]

34 minutes ago, Jimmy612 said:

So he's 100% missing the next 4 games (based on us having 2-weeks to put a case forward).  The absolute earliest he could play seemingly would be 4th March, with 12 games of the season remaining.  He's played 94minutes of football since Halloween, and hasn't played since he came on for 20mins vs Leicester in mid-January. 

We're 19th in the form table since the Burnley debacle, and have dropped from 2nd to 9th.  We've scored 8 goals in those 10 games and didn't sign a striker in January with our two current incumbents having managed 4 goals in the league all season.  We've also conceded 17 goals in that period, although they do include hammerings from Burnley, PNE and Rotherham. 

At what point do we write this one off?   Having watched us all season, in my opinion we're not going up and we're not going to regain any semblance of form because frankly, we never had any.  I can't pinpoint one part of the season where we played well - October was a good month but I can't pretend we played well vs Sunderland, Birmingham or Huddersfield when we picked up maximum points.

I'd like to see O'Brien playing for us, but is he going to turn our season around and drag us to the playoffs?  Everyone says he was crucial in getting Hudds there last season, but IMO the most crucial part of that formula was the manager.  He's better than ours. 

Legal costs followed by relatively high wages at the end of it (if successful).... and will we gain anything at the end of it all? 

 

Spot on Jimmy.

Add to the fact that our manager has again said any success is for some unspecified time in the future and not this season. He’s not even too upset when we lose games. 
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/23322201.push-club---jon-dahl-tomasson-talks-blackburn-rovers-expectation/

[Roverthechimp]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Seemed genuine to me, less than 2 days after the window closed, and backed up by subsequent actions by the club to appeal the decision.

If it were only a face-saving exercise, why would we bother with all this legal expense?

We once sued our own ceo (and lost)

We can piss away money (lost transfer fees, master plans, spurious legal cases) but won”t pay for a pitch worthy of a football club