Appeal to EFL

[Sweaty Gussets]

33 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I'm out at the moment so can't read this properly, but I see the is a timeline of events in the EFL statement.

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/2360941774f04705bf2c384b511bca04/230228---blackburn-rovers-v-efl---decision.pdf

LO’B’s signed Loan Agreement was late in being received and uploaded to iFAS (at 23:29) as the player was at the BRFC training ground (whereas the Club Secretarial Team were at the stadium).

APPEAL response: The Club should have considered where their Club Secretarial Team were best situated on deadline day. This isn’t a reason for any discretion to be applied in this case.

 

Fucking amateurs!

Edited March 1, 2023 by Sweaty Gussets

[Guest]

Tomasson is in a win-win situation. If we go up, it's in spite of the incompetence of others. If we don't go up, it's because of the incompetence of others.

[Sweaty Gussets]

49 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Basically we argued that the 23:00 deadline is a hard deadline and if a club asks for an extension then we have until 23:15. We argued that 23:15 is not a hard deadline and should have leniency. The reason we argued this is because the 23:15 deadline is only stated in the guidance section of the EFL rulebook and not in the regulations section. To add to this Silvester attended a meeting whereby this was explained prior.

We ended up submitting all relevant documents at 23:28 so 13 minutes past the extension. Any mention of relegation clauses were limited and seemingly hours before the deadline. 

We also argued we were disadvantaged because we had staff at the Birmingham game (Waggott), that we had less medical staff due to them being at the game (something which was in our control) and that the medical took place at the training ground whilst the club secretary was at the stadium (again within our control).

Overall there's no bloody wonder the appeal failed. It was based on naff all and certain staff members have shown their incompetence. 

 

EDIT: Read this wrong. The Secretarial Team were at Ewood., not St Andrews. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Sweaty Gussets

[martonrover]

1 minute ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

It's actually the 'Club Secretarial Team' that were at the B'ham game. Let that sink in. The Secretarial Team, responsible for processing transfers on deadline day, weren't at Ewood/Brockhall on deadline day. They were on a jolly at the match. 

Shameful. 

and a total waste of time and money continuing to pursue it.

[arbitro]

So Broughton was right when he said he didn't think we would win an appeal but we went ahead anyway and cost the club tens of thousands.

I wonder who sanctioned that spend.

We need a complete clear out of all the lot of them.

[ben_the_beast]

6 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Gotta say some of the comments in the document are damning - total lack of planning across the board. Big question - who is responsible - Waggott, Broughton, Club Secretary ? It could be seen as a series of unfortunate events - but to me it is a total lack of planning and leadership. Personally, IMO Waggott has to shoulder the ultimate responsibility - he is in overall control.

From what I can see.

Waggott is certainly accountable. Within the clubs own argument they stated that club officials being at the Birmingham game hindered the transfer. The response was that the club had the choice of whether officials were either at the game or on hand for transfers. 

- there is no hiding place for Waggott to escape some culpability in this

 

Sylvester is accountable as it seems as though he really fannied around with the paperwork. The initial submission at 20:28 did not include a contract should the permanent option be triggered. This was the requested by the EFL at 20:47. The rules were clear and it seems the requirements for documentation were communicated early enough. I assume there was then a delay in him providing these and was taken off guard when further details were needed in those submissions. There is zero excuse on his part. 

 

Broughton was off wining and dining O'brien elsewhere during his medical. In a location that did not allow for any bumps in the road regarding paperwork to be quickly resolved. Personally i see him as less culpable but i think this does demonstrate a lack of experience on his part regarding big transfers and preparing for what could go wrong.

[Sweaty Gussets]

Just now, arbitro said:

So Broughton was right when he said he didn't think we would win an appeal but we went ahead anyway and cost the club tens of thousands.

I wonder who sanctioned that spend.

We need a complete clear out of all the lot of them.

'The Secretarial Team' need to resign pronto. They have potentially cost the club £150m, or whatever promotion is worth. 

[lraC]

It was always looking unlikely and quite frankly, I am glad to see the back of it now.

We made a mess of it and then tried and failed to appease people. 

[Penwortham Blue]

39 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I'm out at the moment so can't read this properly, but I see the is a timeline of events in the EFL statement.

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/2360941774f04705bf2c384b511bca04/230228---blackburn-rovers-v-efl---decision.pdf

Having read the above, we never had a chance at appeal and this timeline and detail is a damning indictment of the club’s leadership and administration set up. Why on earth was Swag at Birmingham City ? Even more bizarrely, why was the secretarial team at Ewood and the player at Brockhall, you really couldn’t make it up 😡

I’m not prepared to allow this to derail my current positivity about JDT’s playing squad but Swag and Sylvester and possibly, Broughton really should bow their head in shame. Let’s win promotion in spite of this and welcome O’Brien in the summer 😊

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, Penwortham Blue said:

Having read the above, we never had a chance at appeal and this timeline and detail is a damning indictment of the club’s leadership and administration set up. Why on earth was Swag at Birmingham City ? Even more bizarrely, why was the secretarial team at Ewood and the player at Brockhall, you really couldn’t make it up 😡

I’m not prepared to allow this to derail my current positivity about JDT’s playing squad but Swag and Sylvester and possibly, Broughton really should bow their head in shame. Let’s win promotion in spite of this and welcome O’Brien in the summer 😊

I don’t think O’Brien would touch us with a barge pole after this.

[SBlue]

3 minutes ago, Penwortham Blue said:

Having read the above, we never had a chance at appeal and this timeline and detail is a damning indictment of the club’s leadership and administration set up. Why on earth was Swag at Birmingham City ? Even more bizarrely, why was the secretarial team at Ewood and the player at Brockhall, you really couldn’t make it up 😡

I’m not prepared to allow this to derail my current positivity about JDT’s playing squad but Swag and Sylvester and possibly, Broughton really should bow their head in shame. Let’s win promotion in spite of this and welcome O’Brien in the summer 😊

Does that even matter? Surely these are electronic or scanned and email is quicker than walking into the next room.

Just more straw clutching for excuses.

[Penwortham Blue]

14 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

It's actually the 'Club Secretarial Team' that were at the B'ham game. Let that sink in. The Secretarial Team, responsible for processing transfers on deadline day, weren't at Ewood/Brockhall on deadline day. They were on a jolly at the match. 

Shameful. 

I would be amazed if that was the case. I think the Sylvester and the other incompetents were at Ewood and O’Brien at Brockhall.

[Atko's Engine]

I have sent my next email to SW:

"Dear Mr Waggott,

You may recall that I emailed you on 2nd February to express my disappointment and concern at the problems regarding the failure to sign Lewis O'Brien and Ethan Brierley; Christine kindly acknowledged my email and said she had passed on my comments.

Following the announcement this evening that the appeal to independent arbitration has failed, and the club has announced the reluctant acceptance of this decision, it is imperative for the fanbase that a thorough, speedy and transparent investigation of what happened, who and how, takes place. Given where the club now finds itself, both in terms of league position and cup qualification, following the playing staff's sterling efforts of late especially, the signing of O'Brien in particular would've been of tremendous value to the club's short & long term aspirations on both fronts, but due to what appear to be significant errors on the club's part can no longer be called upon.

As stated previously I am a long time season ticket holder who takes a rational view of the fates of the club, good and bad. I am not normally moved to express my thoughts in this fashion, but am so disappointed at what's happened I feel I must. The club just cannot be making such significant administrative misjudgments as this if expects to be taken seriously by current & prospective players, staff and, of course, fans.

There must be some tangible accountability for what has happened, as the club's fans deserve a full and Frank explanation and apology.

I look forward to hearing from you directly as soon as possible."

For what it's worth.. .

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I don’t think O’Brien would touch us with a barge pole after this.

What's worse for us is that clubs will think twice before dealing with us on deadline day. Maybe it'll force us to get our business done early for a change.

Edited March 1, 2023 by goozburger

[bboy]

So it's JDT. Had we not conceded an equaliser in the first attempt. we'd not of been playing that day.

😅

Edited March 1, 2023 by bboy

[Jakey]

The loan agreement was only sent to LOB for signature at 23.09. But Forest sent it to us signed on their side two hours earlier. To have only realised after the deadline had passed that we hadn’t got the player to sign one of the key documents for the transfer (that we had been sitting on for nearly 2 hours) is unforgivable 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Jakey

[47er]

1 minute ago, goozburger said:

What's worse for us is that clubs will think twice before dealing with us on deadline day.

I'd like to think we'll avoid dealing on the last day after this disaster, but I doubt it.

[Sweaty Gussets]

5 minutes ago, Penwortham Blue said:

I would be amazed if that was the case. I think the Sylvester and the other incompetents were at Ewood and O’Brien at Brockhall.

Yes, I think you're right. I read it wrong. It was Waggott and Co who were at the match.

[Penwortham Blue]

11 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I don’t think O’Brien would touch us with a barge pole after this.

Yep, that was really tongue in cheek. I won’t lose any sleep over it, if we get promoted

[Bethnal]

For me, this is the key bit. Everyone at Ewood took an hour off, it seems. I don’t think this is a recruitment-side issue, it’s absolutely an admin issue. Silvester and Waggott at fault, (directly and indirectly) Pasha somewhat, as the operational consultant.

Our owners wouldn’t but I’d fire Silvester, reprimand Waggott/direct him to issue the apology and demote/remove responsibilities from Pasha, which is basically generous and lenient to the last two, based on the logic that you don’t fire a CEO when you’re pushing to promotion/playoffs and they’ve had Pasha working for them for many a long year.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Part of me is relieved. This time last year the lad was top notch. But he hasn’t played for a couple of months. How match fit would he be ? How would somebody coming in on probably twice the next highest earner’s wedge be received ? Team spirit seems to be on the up at the moment. We can’t afford a bedding in period at this stage in the season. Every game is vital.

Plus from JDT’s interview he appeared to be more concerned with getting in a striker than he was with another midfield player.

[Gamst]

Looking at our argument, we were never going to win. I think we pursued the appeal to take the heat off the board. They knew time would heal the hurt to some degree and they have been helped by a massive upturn in fortunes on the pitch. It is exactly as originally feared though, we had a brilliant opportunity to sign a top player at this level and we completely screwed it up. The ultimate administrative own goal. Having said that though, I actually feel the failure to sign a striker is equally as negligent. JDT, the fans and the players deserve so much better. 

[Penwortham Blue]

9 minutes ago, bboy said:

So it's JDT. Had we not conceded an equaliser in the first attempt. we'd not of been playing that day.

😅

Or Kaminski, who certainly should have saved it. In any event, plain daft having matches on transfer deadline day.

[Officer Barbrady]

Disaster as far as how it makes our backroom look. But in the grand scheme of things player wise, not too upset with it. O'Brien is a decent player, but not as incredible as I think some fans feel that he is and/or that big of a difference maker.

Don't think it will affect other clubs dealing with us in the future either.If a deal is to be made, it will be. Just hope we are more intelligent and prudent about it next go round.

[Sweaty Gussets]

20 minutes ago, Bethnal said:

For me, this is the key bit. Everyone at Ewood took an hour off, it seems. I don’t think this is a recruitment-side issue, it’s absolutely an admin issue. Silvester and Waggott at fault, (directly and indirectly) Pasha somewhat, as the operational consultant.

Our owners wouldn’t but I’d fire Silvester, reprimand Waggott/direct him to issue the apology and demote/remove responsibilities from Pasha, which is basically generous and lenient to the last two, based on the logic that you don’t fire a CEO when you’re pushing to promotion/playoffs and they’ve had Pasha working for them for many a long year.

Absolutely the key point here. 

Below  in bold is the Appeal's take, which is backed up by the timeline above :

Delays caused by communicating with EFL regarding the Option Deed which BRFC argue delayed their preparation by circa 30 minutes in respect to the Loan Transfer.

The Option Deed was sent to the EFL for approval. The EFL considered it in a timely manner. The Club had failed to submit the playing contract, which was to form part of the Deed, so this was requested. On receipt this was reviewed and the EFL requested two amendments. One of the amendments was accepted by BRFC and the other was confirmed as not relevant after further clarification. The Club presented a transaction for approval and having regard to the obligations of the EFL to act fairly across all Clubs the response of the EFL Executive was considered timely and appropriate. The Board concluded that the matter was dealt with and resolved over 1 hour before the transfer deadline.

So Rovers/EFL agreed to the relegation/promotion clauses a full hour before the deadline. Nixon's exclusive was that Rovers were arguing that one of the clauses (relegation) wasn't relevant. But that was sorted out an hour before deadline. Somebody at the club had obviously fed him that as a legit excuse. 

Like you say, nothing happened for over an hour. What were they doing? 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Sweaty Gussets