Season 2023/24…what’s in store ?

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You are still looking at things very narrowly. Of course points are points. But on the flip side 7th is higher than 8th if we want to go down that road.

He was shafted in January. We’ve spent months playing with all kinds of false nine’s because we’ve hardly a striker worth the name. It’s his first year in England, his first year at Rovers against some vastly experienced ones. Doesn’t mean he’s done better than everybody else, he obviously hasn’t, largely because he’s still a green manager in the unique place that is English football and ‘he’s a lot to learn’. But he’s done well for me.
 

You need to put things into context. 

We were shafted last January too, not only did we have no budget to push on but any scope for selling wantaway Rothwell and reinvesting was denied.

I think both of the last 2 seasons have been pretty good from the manager and players, both just falling short over 46 games and really, how points are accumulated over those games is not that important.

But the vast, vast majority of my doubts going forward come from above the manager. I am 100% in favour of Tomasson staying, if indeed he is willing to. But I can't see how much will change going into next season. No money from the owners mainly down to their stubbornness in blocking sales of players we now won't have anyway, and I don't have much faith in Broughton even to cover the goals we will lose from Brereton, and even with those, we haven't scored enough.

Progress could be measured either compared to last season, in which our points tally and the way we ended the season are basically identical. That was quite a high bar because we did well last season, so have done this. You could also look at how our season has gone on and whether we have got progressively better. I am not convinced we have, the points accumulation would back that up, but like last season, with a small, young squad, it is difficult to objectively judge that without factoring in the limitations that have come from above the manager.

The target has to be to get a top 6 finish next season. I am not convinced we will but that lack of faith isn't to do with Tomasson really.

[chaddyrovers]

45 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

On the pitch, I do worry. The team hasn't had enough to build on what seemed to be sure fire top 6 positions and lacks experience. We will lose our only goalscorer, call him what you want, he has double the goals of our second best. We need experience and we need a totally new front line for starters, and that is hard with no money

And does anyone have faith in Broughton to make the best of a limited budget? I don't, recruitment has been poor especially in the loan market and soured by players we didn't get done and areas we failed to improve. 

not of us know what the budget is for next season. Even if it is only free and loan markets we can make good signings 

Yes it's a valid point that 3 out of 4 loan signings haven't worked out. Thought Morton was good loan signing overall

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We were shafted last January too, not only did we have no budget to push on but any scope for selling wantaway Rothwell and reinvesting was denied.

Mowbray wasn't shafted at all. He signed 5 players in January including Giles who he misuse constantly. 

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Progress could be measured either compared to last season, in which our points tally and the way we ended the season are basically identical. That was quite a high bar because we did well last season, so have done this. You could also look at how our season has gone on and whether we have got progressively better. I am not convinced we have, the points accumulation would back that up, but like last season, with a small, young squad, it is difficult to objectively judge that without factoring in the limitations that have come from above the manager.

Did you not think our possession game has improve from the start of the season to the last game? 

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The target has to be to get a top 6 finish next season. I am not convinced we will but that lack of faith isn't to do with Tomasson really.

Yes I think Top 6 finish next season should be the target if JDT stays here. 

[booth]

20 hours ago, den said:

Looking forward. Anyone positive about next season?

It depends on how proactive the club is in bringing in the right players and moving on those that aren't up to it. If they make up for their mistakes in January, then I'll be very positive about next season.

 

52 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think the job he has done is remarkable and the likes of Edwards, Robins, Mowbray and Carrick have achieved what he just missed out on so come out with more good credit,

Amazed that you can compare Carrick's squad to Tomassons. Their top 3 goalscorers had something like 50 goals this season (84 in total, the second highest amount of goals scored). Boro should have been in the automatics. If I was a Boro fan and we'd just made the play offs with that talent, I'd be unhappy with Carrick. And if they don't go up what a failure.

[booth]

50 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We were shafted last January too, not only did we have no budget to push on but any scope for selling wantaway Rothwell and reinvesting was denied.

He opted not to sign a striker himself. If anyone shafted us last season, it was Mowbray.

[DE.]

9 minutes ago, booth said:

Amazed that you can compare Carrick's squad to Tomassons. Their top 3 goalscorers had something like 50 goals this season (84 in total, the second highest amount of goals scored). Boro should have been in the automatics. If I was a Boro fan and we'd just made the play offs with that talent, I'd be unhappy with Carrick. And if they don't go up what a failure.

Tbf they were 21st and 13 points behind 1st when Carrick joined. Considering Carrick had no pre-season and inherited a squad whose confidence must have been very low, I think that's a really harsh assessment. 

Fun fact, 1st and 2nd at the time? QPR and Rovers, both on 30 points :') 

[roversfan99]

47 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

not of us know what the budget is for next season. Even if it is only free and loan markets we can make good signings 

Yes it's a valid point that 3 out of 4 loan signings haven't worked out. Thought Morton was good loan signing overall

Mowbray wasn't shafted at all. He signed 5 players in January including Giles who he misuse constantly. 

Did you not think our possession game has improve from the start of the season to the last game? 

Yes I think Top 6 finish next season should be the target if JDT stays here. 

I would say Morton was an underwhelming loan signing who didn't improve us.

Again, signing loans and cheap deals. He should have either been allowed some reasonable money, or the permission to sell Rothwell and reinvest.

Do I think our possession game has improved, in what way? Our possession stat may have gone up, but it hasn't led to better results, which raises questions as to whether it suits us.

We will do well to find a striker who gets us 16-21 goals next season on a free or a loan.

35 minutes ago, booth said:

It depends on how proactive the club is in bringing in the right players and moving on those that aren't up to it. If they make up for their mistakes in January, then I'll be very positive about next season.

 

Amazed that you can compare Carrick's squad to Tomassons. Their top 3 goalscorers had something like 50 goals this season (84 in total, the second highest amount of goals scored). Boro should have been in the automatics. If I was a Boro fan and we'd just made the play offs with that talent, I'd be unhappy with Carrick. And if they don't go up what a failure.

He hasn't been there for the whole season there.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Chaddy, ask yourself this..does shopping in the Loan and free market football stalls give you any faith that our friends in Pune want promotion?

It feels like we are a club going around in perpetual circles of mediocrity.I would love our much loathed  Billionare owners to give a statement of intent this summer and back Tomasson with hard cash for an all out promotion push.

Sadly, there is probably more chance of those at the cobbled end of the M65 winning the Champions League!

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Chaddy, ask yourself this..does shopping in the Loan and free market football stalls give you any faith that our friends in Pune want promotion?

It feels like we are a club going around in perpetual circles of mediocrity.I would love our much loathed  Billionare owners to give a statement of intent this summer and back Tomasson with hard cash for an all out promotion push.

Sadly, there is probably more chance of those at the cobbled end of the M65 winning the Champions League!

I don't think about the owners in Pune at all. 

Also I don't think about them at the cobbled end of the M65 at all as much as others on here do

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't think about the owners in Pune at all

You really should have a think about them and their actions...they are the crux of most of our problems.

🤔

[chaddyrovers]

47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I would say Morton was an underwhelming loan signing who didn't improve us.

I can't agree there. He had good games for us

47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Again, signing loans and cheap deals. He should have either been allowed some reasonable money, or the permission to sell Rothwell and reinvest.

He signed 10 players last season. Lets stop with the excuses for Mowbray and that's before we start on the previous season where we were lower mid table after signing players like Elliott and squad over 30 players. Mowbray just made excuse after excuses for his failure 

47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do I think our possession game has improved, in what way? Our possession stat may have gone up, but it hasn't led to better results, which raises questions as to whether it suits us.

We look more comfortable on the ball, more movement, played some good attractive football in the right areas. 

Of course its suits the players. what other style would? Do you not want us to be possession based team? 

47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We will do well to find a striker who gets us 16-21 goals next season on a free or a loan.

down to smart recruitment and getting in the right players. Yet again we don't know what the budget might be in the summer. we seen JDT's comments but we don't if that's him downplaying it again or whether its been increase since that comment, etc. 

[Mattyblue]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

He signed 10 players last season. Lets stop with the excuses for Mowbray and that's before we start on the previous season where we were lower mid table after signing players like Elliott and squad over 30 players. Mowbray just made excuse after excuses for his failure 

 

To be fair he did have you to make excuse after excuse for him too…

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Tbf they were 21st and 13 points behind 1st when Carrick joined. Considering Carrick had no pre-season and inherited a squad whose confidence must have been very low, I think that's a really harsh assessment. 

Fun fact, 1st and 2nd at the time? QPR and Rovers, both on 30 points :') 

Yes. Carrick's record doesn't reflect on our manager. However it does reflect on his predecessor Chris Wilder who looks like a busted flush, especially when you look at what he has done at Watford (albeit I think that is now a very difficult job).

[davulsukur]

Can't determine how next season might pan out until our summer recruitment is up and running, which will likely be once the season has already started.

Obviously depends massively on if JDT stays also. 

[roversfan99]

41 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I can't agree there. He had good games for us

He signed 10 players last season. Lets stop with the excuses for Mowbray and that's before we start on the previous season where we were lower mid table after signing players like Elliott and squad over 30 players. Mowbray just made excuse after excuses for his failure 

We look more comfortable on the ball, more movement, played some good attractive football in the right areas. 

Of course its suits the players. what other style would? Do you not want us to be possession based team? 

down to smart recruitment and getting in the right players. Yet again we don't know what the budget might be in the summer. we seen JDT's comments but we don't if that's him downplaying it again or whether its been increase since that comment, etc. 

I am not making excuses, hypocrisy aside. I am giving out examples of how poorly we are run. Equally, you could argue with the focus on blaming Broughton and co for fucking up January is "making excuses." He has made mistakes since that are nothing to do with that but still, it is a valid excuse overall that handicapped him post Jan. Last season, a couple of players bought either with invested funds or with any Rothwell proceeds could have got us in the play offs.

I will be convinced that the current style we are trying to implement is leading to success when it manifests in positive results.

I don't think it is as black and white as about style, for example Tomasson reinstating and using Rankin Costello as a right back in the way he is used has been excellent.

[chaddyrovers]

38 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I am not making excuses, hypocrisy aside. I am giving out examples of how poorly we are run. Equally, you could argue with the focus on blaming Broughton and co for fucking up January is "making excuses." He has made mistakes since that are nothing to do with that but still, it is a valid excuse overall that handicapped him post Jan. Last season, a couple of players bought either with invested funds or with any Rothwell proceeds could have got us in the play offs.

Broughton was to blame for the failure of striker signing in January window. 

I don't know why you are so focus on Rothwell and what happens 18 months ago, surely time to move on?

38 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I will be convinced that the current style we are trying to implement is leading to success when it manifests in positive results.

What style do you think we should play with the players we had? 

 

38 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think it is as black and white as about style, for example Tomasson reinstating and using Rankin Costello as a right back in the way he is used has been excellent.

that's adapting the way we play just like Klopp has changed his style/tactics with TAA moving into midfield when they have the ball. 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Broughton was to blame for the failure of striker signing in January window. 

I don't know why you are so focus on Rothwell and what happens 18 months ago, surely time to move on?

What style do you think we should play with the players we had? 

 

that's adapting the way we play just like Klopp has changed his style/tactics with TAA moving into midfield when they have the ball. 

The irony! Mowbray misused Giles, but stop living in the past!

Point being, in both seasons whether it came from having the autonomy to sell and reinvest or just through owner investment/competent admin, our managers in the last 2 seasons weren't helped by those above. Both managers still can be criticised for decisions made after, but equally both have valid excuses/reasons to point at those above them and suggest that they have been handicapped.

No idea on style, I don't really care how we play as long as it leads to good results. We don't yet know if possession football will do that.

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The irony! Mowbray misused Giles, but stop living in the past!

True! 

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No idea on style, I don't really care how we play as long as it leads to good results. We don't yet know if possession football will do that.

I am asking you how you would play with this set of players? would it 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 or 4-4-2? plus with you play on counter or possession based or wing play or defensive mindset ? 

[roversfan99]

19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

True! 

I am asking you how you would play with this set of players? would it 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 or 4-4-2? plus with you play on counter or possession based or wing play or defensive mindset ? 

Not sure, I am not sure if we can play with a possession style or have the players to do so. The talk is about whether the current possession style a season in is showing a tangible improvment in regards to results and it doesnt seem to be, but obviously things aren't as clear cut and the summer will see an overhaul of players anyway.

[Upside Down]

8 hours ago, Groundhog said:

This is what keeps me awake at night.

I genuinely think achieving promotion and the money it generates is a problem for their accountants.

Then again I don't think I fully understand the club's situation. Can anyone explain it in nutshell?

Are Venky's funding the debt, or just letting the black hole get deeper and deeper...

How much do they inject to keep the club running per year? 

Keeping the club ticking over by funding the debt, and operational losses in line with FFP is one thing they are doing "right" I suppose, but it feels like Stockholm Syndrome, is that the bear minimum they are doing? I must admit I need to read up on FFP. 

I suppose when we've been moping along under Waggott, Mowbray etc, letting a general malaise drift over the club, losing millions in the transfers of star players to frees, totally neglecting the season ticket offer and matchday situation, then it really is a mess from top to bottom. We are so far behind other clubs.

 

They don't inject anything. The money is put in as debt.

If I lend you a tenner that you have to give back, I haven't given you a tenner.

I'm sick of the ffp whining. It is directly linked to our revenue. The club does everything it can to reduce revenue. 

Also, as far as I'm aware, stadium and pitch upgrades are not subject to ffp, so once again the narrative of venkys pumping money into the club is total bollocks. 

[philipl]

3 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

They don't inject anything. The money is put in as debt.

If I lend you a tenner that you have to give back, I haven't given you a tenner.

I'm sick of the ffp whining. It is directly linked to our revenue. The club does everything it can to reduce revenue. 

Also, as far as I'm aware, stadium and pitch upgrades are not subject to ffp, so once again the narrative of venkys pumping money into the club is total bollocks. 

Totally incorrect.

 

[Upside Down]

9 minutes ago, philipl said:

Totally incorrect.

 

Care to explain how?

[Andy]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

My hope is that taking us back to the big time will attract buyers.

In my opinion, promotion is the only chance we have of the owners selling up.

Take in the TV money, recoup a proportion of the losses and sell for a greater price than they would in the Championship.

Can't see any other way we'd be rid of them.

But to answer the initial question, I'm more optimistic for next season than I have since we came down.

Young, progressive manager with ideas greater than 'ah, we'll plod along and see what happens next season' attitude. He's a winner and every defeat this season would have hurt.

Feel this season has been a 46-game preparation for what's to follow next season (presuming the club actually make some signings this summer...).

[Upside Down]

Last season we lost a bunch of key players. Fortunately the youth stepped up to plug some of the gaps.

This year we're losing even more players. Who's going to step up next year?

We need to sign a minimum of 6 first team starters. I'm going to go out on a limb and say we won't be doing that.

[philipl]

11 hours ago, Upside Down said:

They don't inject anything. The money is put in as debt.

If I lend you a tenner that you have to give back, I haven't given you a tenner.

I'm sick of the ffp whining. It is directly linked to our revenue. The club does everything it can to reduce revenue. 

Also, as far as I'm aware, stadium and pitch upgrades are not subject to ffp, so once again the narrative of venkys pumping money into the club is total bollocks. 

The money has gone in as share capital not debt.

Ffp is a thing and we had a transfer ban as a result of it. 

Stadium and pitch upgrades are an issue but are decisions taken by SWAG on allocation of funds given him.

[philipl]

3 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Last season we lost a bunch of key players. Fortunately the youth stepped up to plug some of the gaps.

This year we're losing even more players. Who's going to step up next year?

We need to sign a minimum of 6 first team starters. I'm going to go out on a limb and say we won't be doing that.

More than 12 players going this summer?