Premier League

[arbitro]

11 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The people running the show need to think long and hard about how many games are being ruined by red cards being handed out for fouls that would have just been a free kick not that long ago. I pay to see 11 play 11. I’ve been to plenty of end to end exciting games that have been spoiled as a spectacle by soft sendings off.

I read a lot about the '11 v 11' debate but when it's Rovers playing I honestly don't care if the opposition have a player sent off and it's in the 'soft' category. If it gives us a better chance of winning I'll take it. And it really doesn't bother me when watching games as a neutral as it sometimes area an extra dimension to the game. The game has changed along with laws, interpretations etc and it's a different beast now to when I retired in 2006.

[chaddyrovers]

54 minutes ago, Mercer said:

You simply don't get it - the mention of Coyle is to underline the paucity of Hag's management!

mentioning Coyle like you do from time to time embarrassed yourself and weaken your opinion and points you made. It wouldn't if you Coyle's pictures all through your home and you worship him every day 

54 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Southgate would not be a good option.  Negative, boring football.  United fans just do not want him.

Southgate did a great job as England manager and was our second successful England managers and the players loved his man management skills. 

54 minutes ago, Mercer said:

RVN won the Dutch 'Charity Shield' and FA Cup - you are not seriously classing the Charity Shield as a trophy!  Hag won trophies in Dutch football as also did McLaren - enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mercer, I know what he won in his first season Of course it a trophy. I wonder if you wouldn't have celebrated if Rovers had won the Charity Shield in 1994 and 1995. I deffo would and I was there in 1994 when we lost to United 2 nil. 

54 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Delap has made the step up to the PL and his form this season, not just yesterday, has been very good indicating he will be a great success.   I think you will find him in the full England squad before the season is out.  You said he was shite during the summer transfer window and it seems your judgement is as bad as Mowbray's who seemingly rejected an offer from City to take Delap on loan in Mowbray's last January transfer window with Rovers!

We wanted him almost 3 years woah. If you look at his spell at PNE and Hull, no says he is PL player. Would I paid £20m for him? no way, just like I wouldn't paid £10m for Muric or £20m for Hutchinson 

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Van Nistelrooy finished 7 points behind 1st in his sole season in Holland. Won a domestic cup and the Dutch version of the Community Shield, went out of the play off round of the Champions League to Rangers and knocked out of the first knockout round of the Europa league.

Would that solitary season get anyone considered for the United job without the playing career he had for them? A simple no

I know what he did in his sole season as head coach at PSV. 

What did Pep Guardiola do before he got the Barcelona job? He was B team manager there before Laporta appointed him. 

What did Mikel Arteta do before he got the Arsenal job? on Pep Guardiola coaching staff at City

Did Enzo Maresca sole season and winning the Championship title deserve a chance at Chelsea? 

Sometimes it can just be the right fit for the right person at the right club. 

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I would love to know the reasoning why Southgate would be considered a good choice.

look at the job he did as England manager and our second most successful one after Sir Alf Ramsey. I don't see becoming a head coach in club football but him becoming either managing an international football or become a DoF in club football 

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I cant get my head round the reasoning that previous managerial changes havent improved the fortunes, surely it depends on the individuals appointed. And if the logic was not to change because of it, then Ten Hag would just be kept until he retires. He has overseen not only a lack of progression but armed with loads of money spent on players he personally wanted, they have declined and finished 8th last season, and are now in the bottom half. There is still absolutely no sign of anything in terms of a well coached team or even clues on how he has set the team up with any sort of game plan.

There is no logic offered up as to why Ten Hag IS the man to take them forward. I hope they stick with him as the decline is funny.

United have always spent since Ferguson whether it was Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole or Ten Hag. Have United really improved within those times. I think its around £1.2bn they have spent. Mourinho and Ole were sacked in their third season and Ten Hag looks likely to be sack shortly. I think it will be Van Nistelrooy to take over in the interim and rest of the season. 

United botched replacing him in the summer cos he won the FA cup and they couldn't decide who they wanted in terms of first choice. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I read a lot about the '11 v 11' debate but when it's Rovers playing I honestly don't care if the opposition have a player sent off and it's in the 'soft' category. If it gives us a better chance of winning I'll take it. And it really doesn't bother me when watching games as a neutral as it sometimes area an extra dimension to the game. The game has changed along with laws, interpretations etc and it's a different beast now to when I retired in 2006.

I used to think like that but I’ve changed my mind recently. As we’ve seen this season, in the modern game it’s not as easy to defeat a team playing with 10 as it used to be. What you can be sure of though is it will kill the game as a spectacle as the 10 set out to defend the last third of the pitch for the rest of the game.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

59 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I know what he did in his sole season as head coach at PSV. 

What did Pep Guardiola do before he got the Barcelona job? He was B team manager there before Laporta appointed him. 

What did Mikel Arteta do before he got the Arsenal job? on Pep Guardiola coaching staff at City

Did Enzo Maresca sole season and winning the Championship title deserve a chance at Chelsea? 

Sometimes it can just be the right fit for the right person at the right club. 

look at the job he did as England manager and our second most successful one after Sir Alf Ramsey. I don't see becoming a head coach in club football but him becoming either managing an international football or become a DoF in club football 

United have always spent since Ferguson whether it was Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole or Ten Hag. Have United really improved within those times. I think its around £1.2bn they have spent. Mourinho and Ole were sacked in their third season and Ten Hag looks likely to be sack shortly. I think it will be Van Nistelrooy to take over in the interim and rest of the season. 

United botched replacing him in the summer cos he won the FA cup and they couldn't decide who they wanted in terms of first choice. 

I’m looking at what Southgate did for the national team. That’s why I hope he gets the Utd job. Dull, unimaginative, turgid, boring , you name it - that’s Southgate’s style. I’d rather have Eustace any day of the week and I’m being serious about that.

Utd fans know that, which is why they don.t want him at any price.

Being honest, with the possible exception of Pep the job is too big, the malaise goes too far, for any current football manager on the planet.

Edited September 30 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[K-Hod]

Getting rid of Ten Hag is just kicking the can down the road. He ain’t that good, but neither are any of the players, no matter how much they’ve spent on them.

The players are being judged by the standards of players from about 15 years ago who were good players that were winners.
This lot aren’t fit to lace their boots.
So in a way, I do feel sorry for them, being held to a standard that they aren’t capable of achieving.
But also, seeing the meltdowns and the world ending every time they lose is funny tbh.

[Upside Down]

11 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’m looking at what Southgate did for the national team. That’s why I hope he gets the Utd job. Dull, unimaginative, turgid, boring , you name it - that’s Southgate’s style. I’d rather have Eustace any day of the week and I’m being serious about that.

Utd fans know that, which is why they don.t want him at any price.

Being honest, with the possible exception of Pep the job is too big, the malaise goes too far, for any current football manager on the planet.

I said before the Euros kicked off that Southgate wasn't good enough and England would fail.

That final was men against boys and it wasn't due to a lack of ability from England. It was a complete lack of tactical nous and a negative, loser mentality from the man in the dugout.

I'd love Southgate to get the United job as it would be a disaster. I can't see him taking it though, he may be a shyte manager but he's not stupid.

[Mattyblue]

The culture of the club just seems rotten, you can spot it a mile off with the attitudes of the players. Compare and contrast to an Arsenal or a Liverpool.

Long may it continue 😀

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The culture of the club just seems rotten, you can spot it a mile off with the attitudes of the players. Compare and contrast to an Arsenal or a Liverpool.

Long may it continue 😀

That’s the problem. The issues are much bigger than what goes on out on the pitch.

[davulsukur]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I have asked a series of questions but I would like to him to answer, if he doesn't then fair enough. He seems to think sacking another manager there is the answer to their problems. They sacked Mourinho and Ole in their third season. Has it the situation better? I would say no. Ten Hag has won 2 trophies in 2 season yet people want him sack now. Why not back him and say this is our guy and we will back. 

To answer my question on a 3 man shortlist and to show fairness, here my 3 man shortlist

Gareth Southgate

Thomas Tuchel

Luis Enrique 

It's not previously sacking managers that was the problem, it was the manager they hired as their successor that was. 

There absolutely must be a manager out there who can get more out of this squad than ETH. No, I can't give you names because I just don't follow European leagues etc. enough but it's not my job to appoint the Man Utd manager. 

[RoverDom]

Man utd just seems to be a grave yard for players at the moment. 

So many examples but sancho illustrates it perfectly. Brilliant for Dortmund, shocking for Utd, performing again for Chelsea 

The club ruins players. Garnacho was the only one who came out with any credit for me yesterday. 

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I used to think like that but I’ve changed my mind recently. As we’ve seen this season, in the modern game it’s not as easy to defeat a team playing with 10 as it used to be. What you can be sure of though is it will kill the game as a spectacle as the 10 set out to defend the last third of the pitch for the rest of the game.

It's up to the team with eleven to come up with a way to beat them. City couldn't do it against Arsenal, Burnley couldn't against us, we couldn't do it against Preston but a positive early substitution and change of shape saw us comfortably home against QPR. I quite like watching a good defensive performance and as we did against Burnley. It was a most satisfying point given the circumstances.

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

It's not previously sacking managers that was the problem, it was the manager they hired as their successor that was. 

There absolutely must be a manager out there who can get more out of this squad than ETH. No, I can't give you names because I just don't follow European leagues etc. enough but it's not my job to appoint the Man Utd manager. 

They should have kept Ole Gunnar Solskjaer who was building something. I wouldn't sack Ten Hag right now. 

INEOS has brought in a proper football structure to them finally and Dan Ashworth is one of the best DoF going around and let him get process in place and structure in place. 

[Mattyblue]

I wouldn’t sack him either, give him a new deal.

[Norbert Rassragr]

OGS was building mediocrity, just like Moyes, Ten Hag and all the other managers since Ferguson. To say that Ole was going to do a Klopp is silly. He was tripe. The players need to be shipped out as they are the reason for the bad atmosphere around the place.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

OGS was building mediocrity, just like Moyes, Ten Hag and all the other managers since Ferguson. To say that Ole was going to do a Klopp is silly. He was tripe. The players need to be shipped out as they are the reason for the bad atmosphere around the place.

What’s OGS done since he got the bullet ? I genuinely don’t know. Is he still in football ?

Edited September 30 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[oldjamfan1]

Somebody mentioned Busby and Ferguson in an earlier post. The only two managers to win that lot the title in 115 years.

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Getting rid of Ten Hag is just kicking the can down the road. He ain’t that good, but neither are any of the players, no matter how much they’ve spent on them.

The players are being judged by the standards of players from about 15 years ago who were good players that were winners.
This lot aren’t fit to lace their boots.
So in a way, I do feel sorry for them, being held to a standard that they aren’t capable of achieving.
But also, seeing the meltdowns and the world ending every time they lose is funny tbh.

I dont think its anything to do with Title winning standards. Its not as if they are 3rd or 4th, finishing 8th and now being 12th with that squad and considering the resources spent on players Ten Hag specifically wanted is nowhere near good enough. And you wont find a team as poorly coached relative to the quality of players, where you cant see over 2 years in what they are even trying to do.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

OGS was building mediocrity, just like Moyes, Ten Hag and all the other managers since Ferguson. To say that Ole was going to do a Klopp is silly. He was tripe. The players need to be shipped out as they are the reason for the bad atmosphere around the place.

rubbish. He had a good team there. He was building the team. The problem was the structure around him. 

His interview on stick to football podcast was first class and impressive. 

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont think its anything to do with Title winning standards. Its not as if they are 3rd or 4th, finishing 8th and now being 12th with that squad and considering the resources spent on players Ten Hag specifically wanted is nowhere near good enough. And you wont find a team as poorly coached relative to the quality of players, where you cant see over 2 years in what they are even trying to do.

The problems are much deeper than just keep sacking managers and replacing them hoping for a better result. That's how's did it for years under Roman. 

Ratcliffe and his team have finally put together a proper footballing structure. Sacking him now just created more problems there again

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

rubbish. He had a good team there. He was building the team. The problem was the structure around him. 

His interview on stick to football podcast was first class and impressive. 

The problems are much deeper than just keep sacking managers and replacing them hoping for a better result. That's how's did it for years under Roman. 

Ratcliffe and his team have finally put together a proper footballing structure. Sacking him now just created more problems there again

The issues when Steve Kean was here went far beyond him as an individual, same with Owen Coyle. Venkys were and always have been the problem. It didnt mean that we may aswell have stuck with terrible managers because they werent the main problem.

I cant fathom how sacking a manager who finished 8th and is currently 12th with absolutely zero evidence of any style of play/any clue on how to set up the team effectively (unless you can tell me what you have seen from them in terms of a style and/or green shots of something coming together) creates any more problems. A new, competent manager wouldnt fix all of the problems, but it would fix one big one.

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I cant fathom how sacking a manager who finished 8th and is currently 12th with absolutely zero evidence of any style of play/any clue on how to set up the team effectively (unless you can tell me what you have seen from them in terms of a style and/or green shots of something coming together) creates any more problems. A new, competent manager wouldnt fix all of the problems, but it would fix one big one.

Look at the history of managers who have been there since Fergie including Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ten Hag, Ole and its goes wrong after a couple of seasons. 

Do you honestly think ten Hag wanted them to play that way yesterday? 

Why not actually back him like Arsenal did with Arteta and let this new structure develop and get better? INEOS have only been there for a short time and let them get on with it. Sometimes you have to go back 1 space to go forward 3 spaces. 

 

Edited September 30 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Look at the history of managers who have been there since Fergie including Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ten Hag, Ole and its goes wrong after a couple of seasons. 

Do you honestly think ten Hag wanted them to play that way yesterday? 

Why not actually back him like Arsenal did with Arteta and let this new structure develop and get better? INEOS have only been there for a short time and let them get on with it. Sometimes you have to go back 1 space to go forward 3 spaces. 

 

You keep going off on a tangent about previous managers.

United consistently play in such a disorganised way, with everyone scratching their heads as to what he is trying to do. League results for over a year have led to embarassing league positions. The way the team is playing is down to the manager, why after watching that would your response be to back him for a further extended period?! What do you see about Uniteds performances and results makes you justify such a stance? What style is he trying to adopt (he has been there ages now, hes not new) and do you see signs that its working?

If we had a manager who was overseeing terrible results relative to who we are, and absolutely no signs of any sort of game plan. Would you want him to then be backed for an extended period?

[speeeeeeedie]

Under ten Hag Man U have spent over £500 million on players. None of them are any good, nor is ten Hag making them better.

He is on year 3 and he still hasn't figured out how he wants to play. Postecoglu got Spurs playing his way in about 5 minutes. Emery transformed Villa. It's looking like Slot has already improved Liverpool's defending. Yet ten Hag still dithers between counter attacking and a full on press. 

Once he gets fired, which will happen soon enough, Man U's top brass will start the deckchair rearranging again. They won't have enough time to do a "proper" search so will be scratching around for a quick fix. Tuchel and Southgate are 2 high profile names who aren't in work. Yet both have baggage. 

One constant is the owners. Ratcliffe and INEOS can bring in whoever they want but until the Glazer's sell up Man U will continue to operate as they are doing now. 

Having said all that, I'd give ten Hag a 10-year extension tomorrow.

[Mercer]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

mentioning Coyle like you do from time to time embarrassed yourself and weaken your opinion and points you made. It wouldn't if you Coyle's pictures all through your home and you worship him every day 

Southgate did a great job as England manager and was our second successful England managers and the players loved his man management skills. 

Mercer, I know what he won in his first season Of course it a trophy. I wonder if you wouldn't have celebrated if Rovers had won the Charity Shield in 1994 and 1995. I deffo would and I was there in 1994 when we lost to United 2 nil. 

We wanted him almost 3 years woah. If you look at his spell at PNE and Hull, no says he is PL player. Would I paid £20m for him? no way, just like I wouldn't paid £10m for Muric or £20m for Hutchinson 

Coyle - that comment is incredibly childish Chaddy.  I've met the guy on a number of occasions and despite his disastrous spell at Rovers he is good company as is Nicko who you revere.

Southgate - the players loved him because, I would suggest, he was a pushover.

Charity Shield - come off it, a non event.  By the way, I was there in both 1994 and 1995 (where were you in 1995!?!?).

Mckenna is a woderful up and coming manager - may well be the next big thing.  I would trust his judgement over yours! 

Finally, stuck £20 on Eddie Howe to be next United manager at 50/1!

Edited September 30 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

You keep going off on a tangent about previous managers.

Cos there is a pattern that keeps happening time after time when a manager enter his third year there. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

United consistently play in such a disorganised way, with everyone scratching their heads as to what he is trying to do. League results for over a year have led to embarassing league positions. The way the team is playing is down to the manager, why after watching that would your response be to back him for a further extended period?! What do you see about Uniteds performances and results makes you justify such a stance? What style is he trying to adopt (he has been there ages now, hes not new) and do you see signs that its working? If we had a manager who was overseeing terrible results relative to who we are, and absolutely no signs of any sort of game plan. Would you want him to then be backed for an extended period?

You have just brought in a new footballing structure with proper experience people in key roles. You have just back and support saying Ten Hag is our man to take us forward and signed a number of players to improve the team. They clearly were looking for a new head coach but couldn't find what the wanted. Its was messy situation. so sacking him so quickly after backing him I find lacking loyal. Look at Pep Guardiola who Roman Abramovic wanted him time after time but rejected them time after time. Do Man United want to be another Chelsea?