Leopold Wahlstedt. About Damn Time.

[Mercer]

2 minutes ago, roverblue said:

The more I see of this guy the less enthusiastic I am about the signing. Fingers crossed he comes good but at the moment surely Pears will walk back into the side when fit.

Absolutely.

This guy cost us a relatively big fee.  Given the fee involved and his one full Swedish cap, I was expecting a far more assured and capable goalkeeper.

Based upon his performances so far, one could be forgiven for thinking we'd taken a cheap punt on a League Two prospect.

[LeftWinger]

Whilst he's looked a bit shaky so far - it's worth remembering he's only 24 which is young for a keeper. He's not been as good as I expected - but I'm not writing him off yet.

It's worth noting where this guy was at in his career by the time he was 24 - backup at Brondby with no appearances - and had been playing college football before that. He was 29 by the time he joined Rovers and his career really took off. 

 

[tomphil]

When are we going to learn about writing off young players ?  We are just back to where we were in the early days of Steel and Raya, both are playing top flight football now.

Yes there is right to be concerned but i absolutely knew we'd be going down this road just the same as we did with Pears, Raya, Steel.

What we need to compliment the goalies at Ewood is an experienced guy with a bit of life left in him who can be called upon if needed. Who is working with the other keepers day to day passing on his experience whilst at the same time keeping a bit of pressure on them knowing they could lose their place to him.

Sadly even if we could find one these lot won't pay the wages but if you want to be a development club that's what you need.

Edited November 6, 2023 by tomphil

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Whilst he's looked a bit shaky so far - it's worth remembering he's only 24 which is young for a keeper. He's not been as good as I expected - but I'm not writing him off yet.

It's worth noting where this guy was at in his career by the time he was 24 - backup at Brondby with no appearances - and had been playing college football before that. He was 29 by the time he joined Rovers and his career really took off. 

 

The thing is, whilst he may very well turn out to be an exceptional goalkeeper, we don't have 5 years for that to come to fruition. We were replacing our one properly experienced goalkeeper, we should have been finding someone similarly experienced and also in their peak years (or at least on a similar level of current ability). Especially with the sum we were spending, which is not inconsiderable for us. Having two 'project' keepers is not the right model. One or both may turn out to be fantastic, but it should be one for the here and now and one for the future. They've cost us about 1.2 million between them, and they're costing us points too.

That said, the shorter-term curve could still be good, and some patience is due. Wahlstedt has all the usual things to adjust to with such a move - new country, new club, new manager and coaches, new league, etc. It's unrealistic to expect these players to always hit the ground running. Maybe once he feels comfortable and confident we will see what he's really about.

So far, I feel he's slightly better than Pears, but we needed much better than Pears. I think Wahlstedt has better positioning, which is a real weak point of Pears' game and something people often miss when assessing goalies. They seem similar in terms of reflexive shot stopping. Both flap at crosses and need to work on that. I think Wahlstedt needs to also work on not parrying shots into the danger area. It's unmistakeable that we have conceded less since Wahlstedt came into the team, although there are of course other factors at play too (James Hill and the change of playing approach, mostly).

[jim mk2]

Comparing Wahlstedt to Friedel, ho hum. It’s like marrying a plain girl and hoping she’ll turn into Sophia Loren. Friedel was for sure a late developer and so it appears is Steele at Brighton after being worse than useless at Rovers but I just don’t see it with this guy. Hope I’m wrong of course but it will be “fun” watching him fumble and flap and cost us numerous points over the next few years on his way to the goalkeeping summit. 

[LeftWinger]

15 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Comparing Wahlstedt to Friedel, ho hum. It’s like marrying a plain girl and hoping she’ll turn into Sophia Loren. Friedel was for sure a late developer and so it appears is Steele at Brighton after being worse than useless at Rovers but I just don’t see it with this guy. Hope I’m wrong of course but it will be “fun” watching him fumble and flap and cost us numerous points over the next few years on his way to the goalkeeping summit. 

I'm not comparing Friedel to Wahlstedt at all - just pointing out most keepers don't peak until 30+. Pears is still very young at 25 as well.

David De Gea was a flapping liability when he first joined United. Looked awful on crosses. Went on to be their player of the year four times.

Has he been good so far? Not particularly. Does it mean he won't become a very good goalkeeper - absolutely not.

[jim mk2]

3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm not comparing Friedel to Wahlstedt at all - just pointing out most keepers don't peak until 30+. Pears is still very young at 25 as well.

David De Gea was a flapping liability when he first joined United. Looked awful on crosses. Went on to be their player of the year four times.

Has he been good so far? Not particularly. Does it mean he won't become a very good goalkeeper - absolutely not.

 

And in the meantime we have to suffer his costly mistakes and errors. We lost out on the play-offs last year on goal difference and how many points were thrown away through goalkeeping mistakes?

The point is, I'm tired of watching a succession of Rovers "in progress" goalkeepers when there are experienced, perfectly good finished articles around at lower levels of the game who we could have signed and who don't make crass blunders week after week.

I was right behind the goal when Wahlstedt threw one in the net at Millwall a few weeks ago and (apart from perhaps Ray Clemence v Scotland and one of two others I recall) in 60 plus years of watching I've never seen anything like it in the pro game. 

[LeftWinger]

16 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

And in the meantime we have to suffer his costly mistakes and errors. We lost out on the play-offs last year on goal difference and how many points were thrown away through goalkeeping mistakes?

The point is, I'm tired of watching a succession of Rovers "in progress" goalkeepers when there are experienced, perfectly good finished articles around at lower levels of the game who we could have signed and who don't make crass blunders week after week.

I was right behind the goal when Wahlstedt threw one in the net at Millwall a few weeks ago and (apart from perhaps Ray Clemence v Scotland and one of two others I recall) in 60 plus years of watching I've never seen anything like it in the pro game. 

Whilst I agree with what you're saying in principal - in relation to preferring an experienced keeper...

To say you've never seen anything like that in the pro game in 60 plus years is a stretch.

Check out some of the errors here. 

 

[tomphil]

15 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Comparing Wahlstedt to Friedel, ho hum. It’s like marrying a plain girl and hoping she’ll turn into Sophia Loren. Friedel was for sure a late developer and so it appears is Steele at Brighton after being worse than useless at Rovers but I just don’t see it with this guy. Hope I’m wrong of course but it will be “fun” watching him fumble and flap and cost us numerous points over the next few years on his way to the goalkeeping summit. 

Fair play to Steele it seemed the winds of fortune blew in his direction after a hard apprenticeship.

He'll never be what i'd call a good keeper though and i suspect its helped that even though he's at a higher level the defenders around him are of that level. The axis of him, Hanley and Duffy here was a poor one i don't care what anybody says. Then that was replaced by the likes of Greer and Wes Brown to name but two, no wonder his already fragile confidence was gone.

He like a few others imo will also have benefited from the lack of good English keepers knocking around when they used to be ten a penny. And the overall standard in keeping dropping right across the game.

[Sweaty Gussets]

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

 

I’d have been really pissed off if that had gone in. Should be a routine save for a championship level goalkeeper. 

[rigger]

13 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’d have been really pissed off if that had gone in. Should be a routine save for a championship level goalkeeper. 

It was and he is.

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

 

I was right behind the goal when Wahlstedt threw one in the net at Millwall a few weeks ago and (apart from perhaps Ray Clemence v Scotland and one of two others I recall) in 60 plus years of watching I've never seen anything like it in the pro game. 

What a weird comment. Firstly he didn't throw it in the net, he fumbled it and let it creep under him. Secondly, you've presumably seen one of our current keepers do something much closer to actually throwing the ball in the net just two seasons back. And finally, there have been many, many worse goalkeeping errors in the last 60 years, including the aforementioned Pears howler.

[jim mk2]

4 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

What a weird comment. Firstly he didn't throw it in the net, he fumbled it and let it creep under him. Secondly, you've presumably seen one of our current keepers do something much closer to actually throwing the ball in the net just two seasons back. And finally, there have been many, many worse goalkeeping errors in the last 60 years, including the aforementioned Pears howler.

 

"Throwing it in the net" is an expression often used to describe goalkeeping mistakes. It's not meant to be taken literally. I'm surprised this has to be explained

[bluebruce]

6 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

"Throwing it in the net" is an expression often used to describe goalkeeping mistakes. It's not meant to be taken literally. I'm surprised this has to be explained

It doesn't need to be explained, thanks. It generally refers more to blunders like Pears'.

[jim mk2]

2 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

It doesn't need to be explained, thanks. It generally refers more to blunders like Pears'.

 What a weird comment after you took the criticism of Wahlstedt literally . 

[wilsdenrover]

Which championship ‘keepers would people prefer to Leo/Pears?

[Sweaty Gussets]

55 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Which championship ‘keepers would people prefer to Leo/Pears?

Matt Dickens. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Sweaty Gussets

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, wilsdenrover said:

Which championship ‘keepers would people prefer to Leo/Pears?

John Ruddy

Keeping goal for the first team whilst mentoring one of the others for a season or two.

[Blow-in]

On 07/11/2023 at 09:46, LeftWinger said:

I'm not comparing Friedel to Wahlstedt at all - just pointing out most keepers don't peak until 30+. Pears is still very young at 25 as well.

David De Gea was a flapping liability when he first joined United. Looked awful on crosses. Went on to be their player of the year four times.

Has he been good so far? Not particularly. Does it mean he won't become a very good goalkeeper - absolutely not.

Gianluigi Donnaruma was Milan first choice goal keeper at 17 he is 3 months older than Leo. He won the European Championship at 21. 

I am all for hoping Leo will develop, but he is pretty shit at the moment and he is more than old enough to be held accountable.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Blow-in said:

Gianluigi Donnaruma was Milan first choice goal keeper at 17 he is 3 months older than Leo. He won the European Championship at 21. 

I am all for hoping Leo will develop, but he is pretty shit at the moment and he is more than old enough to be held accountable.

Wayne Rooney scored 11 Premier League goals as an 18 year old. What's your point?

[Upside Down]

He'll come good.

Just needs to catch the ball more but that may be a confidence thing.

[philipl]

I bet he is sick of catching practise in training...

[Mattyblue]

Catching practice? How quaint.

Keeper training across the game now looks like it consists of passing triangles and other foot based practice, who needs to use hands!

[tomphil]

The definition of a good young keeper now seems to be an even split of what he can do with his feet and hands.

Only footwork requirement in the past was can he clear it or kick it beyond the halfway line, if he could do it with both feet he was a belter. If he couldn't kick but could command his area and dive when needed he was still in for a good career.

I hope Leo chooses this next game to show he's going to make a good all rounder not a wobbler !

Edited November 9, 2023 by tomphil