Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 13/11/2024 - Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Green Army 75 said:

An Argyle fan in peace!

We feel your pain but you will get through it.  We had our own financial problems around 10 years ago and almost dropped out of league 2…twice.  
 

We had Risdale as chairman which should tell you everything you need to know and almost got wound up by the HRMC who wanted to make an example of a football club.  They had a winding up case at the High Court that no one at the club was aware of.   If it hadn’t been for an Argyle fan alerting the club that they needed to show up to the court case and argue for time we’d have been wound up….

But then we got a decent chairman followed by a brilliant one who was born and raised in Plymouth. 
We have no debt and we run a balanced ship.  The chairman openly admits he can’t afford to give money or loans to the club so we can only spend what we  bring in. 

So, we have the lowest budget in the league and are favourites for relegation.  
But, we will play attacking football with young players who we can improve and sell on.  

Things became surreal for Argyle fans last January when we were turning down bids from Lazio for Whittaker (and now Rangers).

 
My point is that things will get better and your club will be run properly again.  

There will be a low point that you will look back on as the final turning point.  We got knocked out of the FA Cup by Stourbridge…..

Problem is these lot have had us in this doom loop for 12 years now and there is absolutely no sign it will ever end in fact all we hear is they'll never sell the club because they've wasted 200 million on it.

So the real fear now is owner instigated managed decline where they reduce everything into a smaller, cheaper, easier manageable model that will just sit quietly in a corner of their empire forever.

That means life in league 1 or 2 for us  and we'll never get rid because they always do enough at the last min to keep the lights on.

[J*B]

It will 100% get better. There's people that are interested in buying the club - if Venkys begin to engage with that discussion. It's simply a case of are you young enough to outlive Venkys ownership and exactly how damaged the club will be by the time it happens. 

[broadsword]

Don't want to give myself false hope 

 

It's been thirteen years. It's been agony

[broadsword]

12 hours ago, Green Army 75 said:

An Argyle fan in peace!

We feel your pain but you will get through it.  We had our own financial problems around 10 years ago and almost dropped out of league 2…twice.  
 

We had Risdale as chairman which should tell you everything you need to know and almost got wound up by the HRMC who wanted to make an example of a football club.  They had a winding up case at the High Court that no one at the club was aware of.   If it hadn’t been for an Argyle fan alerting the club that they needed to show up to the court case and argue for time we’d have been wound up….

But then we got a decent chairman followed by a brilliant one who was born and raised in Plymouth. 
We have no debt and we run a balanced ship.  The chairman openly admits he can’t afford to give money or loans to the club so we can only spend what we  bring in. 

So, we have the lowest budget in the league and are favourites for relegation.  
But, we will play attacking football with young players who we can improve and sell on.  

Things became surreal for Argyle fans last January when we were turning down bids from Lazio for Whittaker (and now Rangers).

 
My point is that things will get better and your club will be run properly again.  

There will be a low point that you will look back on as the final turning point.  We got knocked out of the FA Cup by Stourbridge…..

You see that too me would be so much better than what we have now. Yes, we would be skint, but no, I really wouldn't care because Venkys would be gone 

[simongarnerisgod]

17 minutes ago, broadsword said:

You see that too me would be so much better than what we have now. Yes, we would be skint, but no, I really wouldn't care because Venkys would be gone 

i grew up in the 80`s and there was no club skinter than rovers,we were always a well run club though,id`e go back to that with thankfull bliss

[broadsword]

Yep, I remember all that. Post sent out class, milk for the teas rqtioned etc.

It genuinely wouldn't bother me.

[ABBEY]

10 hours ago, J*B said:

It will 100% get better. There's people that are interested in buying the club - if Venkys begin to engage with that discussion. It's simply a case of are you young enough to outlive Venkys ownership and exactly how damaged the club will be by the time it happens. 

57 and hope I'm alive to party like my arthritis will let me

[MarkBRFC]

20 hours ago, J*B said:

It will 100% get better. There's people that are interested in buying the club - if Venkys begin to engage with that discussion. It's simply a case of are you young enough to outlive Venkys ownership and exactly how damaged the club will be by the time it happens. 

I just don't believe that this will ever happen.

The only way they go is if somehow they are forced our by the Indian government, and that seems unlikely to me.

[lraC]

1 minute ago, MarkBRFC said:

I just don't believe that this will ever happen.

The only way they go is if somehow they are forced our by the Indian government, and that seems unlikely to me.

I truly believe that the messages coming out of Ewood, distancing the club from this court hearing, are a huge smokescreen and have led some people to believe it won’t affect us.

The owners are under investigation for very serious criminal matters and the Indian authorities, want their pound of flesh.

As we have seen with posts on here, ED have been strongly opposed to them being allowed to send further funds and I am convinced the extra time they have had, since the two adjournments, will have given them more ammunition to ensure they are permanently banned from sending funds abroad. 
It will not go down too well, if they are now aware that the funds leave India to fund a project it in the UK that has been described as an investment, which in reality is just a pit that money disappears into and becomes at best becomes worth around 75% less than the amount invested, so this is anything but the foregone conclusion that we are being told it is.

Add to that the potential for Venky’s to lose the £15m sat in the bond and I think even the owners will have to admit defeat.

Make no mistake this court hearing, is potentially one of the most important events in the history of the club, despite the narrative, coming out of Ewood. 

[G Somerset Rover]

49 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

I just don't believe that this will ever happen.

The only way they go is if somehow they are forced our by the Indian government, and that seems unlikely to me.

Put very nicely by IraC above. In addition, once assets run dry to sell (which they are about to after Szmodics), then surely there is only one outcome should the Indian government dig their heels in. Eventually at least.

Edited July 24 by G Somerset Rover

[Forever Blue]

Be interesting to hear what Waggott had to say about all this at the FF. 

 

[Mattyblue]

I’m with Mark.

These just aren’t normal owners, I don’t think they will *ever* voluntarily sell regardless of how much of a disaster it’s been. Actually I think they are totally unique in this never mind not normal.

Our only hope is with the Byzantine world of the Indian judicial system and I just don’t have the expectation that some of you have that we will get any decisive edicts (though I really hope I’m wrong).

Edited July 24 by Mattyblue

[MarkBRFC]

49 minutes ago, lraC said:

I truly believe that the messages coming out of Ewood, distancing the club from this court hearing, are a huge smokescreen and have led some people to believe it won’t affect us.

The owners are under investigation for very serious criminal matters and the Indian authorities, want their pound of flesh.

As we have seen with posts on here, ED have been strongly opposed to them being allowed to send further funds and I am convinced the extra time they have had, since the two adjournments, will have given them more ammunition to ensure they are permanently banned from sending funds abroad. 
It will not go down too well, if they are now aware that the funds leave India to fund a project it in the UK that has been described as an investment, which in reality is just a pit that money disappears into and becomes at best becomes worth around 75% less than the amount invested, so this is anything but the foregone conclusion that we are being told it is.

Add to that the potential for Venky’s to lose the £15m sat in the bond and I think even the owners will have to admit defeat.

Make no mistake this court hearing, is potentially one of the most important events in the history of the club, despite the narrative, coming out of Ewood. 

We'll see I suppose and I hope you are correct.

It all just sounds too good to be true that we'll soon be free of them.

[Forever Blue]

We’ll just have to hope Rover Insider was correct and that 2 of the 3 are already willing to sell. 

Edited July 24 by Forever Blue

[Wheelton Blue]

@tomphil has it right in his post above I reckon.

I sincerely hope that their hand is forced, but August will come and go with no material change.

We've probably got enough money in the bank now from player sales to see us through the next few months. As such, there is no urgent need for the owners to send any funds over.

The can will be kicked, and we'll be having the same conversations in 6,12 months time.

Costs will continue to be cut, budgets and owner funding will get smaller and smaller, whilst we continue to suffer on the pitch.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[lraC]

13 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

We’ll just have to hope Rover Insider was correct and that 2 of the 3 are already willing to sell. 

Let's face it, if you were going through the issues, that they are for what appears to be no benefit to them, you would be off.

I know they have made very strange decisions ever since day one, but surely even they must now know, it is game over.

I suspect it is Balaji, that is not willing to sell, who by all accounts, is the strangest one amongst them. 

[lraC]

6 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

@tomphil has it right in his post above I reckon.

I sincerely hope that their hand is forced, but August will come and go with no material change.

We've probably got enough money in the bank now from player sales to see us through the next few months. As such, there is no urgent need for the owners to send any funds over.

The can will be kicked, and we'll be having the same conversations in 6,12 months time.

Costs will continue to be cut, budgets and owner funding will get smaller and smaller, whilst we continue to suffer on the pitch.

Rinse and repeat.

 

I think they key here, is the accountants, as if they are permanently banned form sending funds, they cannot underwrite the losses going forward and the business is then trading in an insolvent manner. 

[Wheelton Blue]

37 minutes ago, lraC said:

I think they key here, is the accountants, as if they are permanently banned form sending funds, they cannot underwrite the losses going forward and the business is then trading in an insolvent manner. 

In that scenario, I imagine that they could carry on selling off assets (players, academy, land, stadium?) to pay bills, until there is nothing left to sell.

Whether they'd do that, or swallow their pride finally and flog the club off, who knows.

That's the doomsday case I think. ie the club as we know it is literally no more.

[lraC]

22 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

In that scenario, I imagine that they could carry on selling off assets (players, academy, land, stadium?) to pay bills, until there is nothing left to sell.

Whether they'd do that, or swallow their pride finally and flog the club off, who knows.

That's the doomsday case I think. ie the club as we know it is literally no more.

They could be very vindictive and do that, but if things are so serious in India, that they are banned form sending funds to the UK and especially, with what was uncovered in the past for the likes of Glen Mullan and co, hopefully the football authorities and possibly even the legal system in the UK will be hot on their heels, so they may choose not to go down that route.

[Mattyblue]

Surely they won’t do anything vindictive as they are very ‘kind and honourable people’.

[Dreams of 1995]

31 minutes ago, lraC said:

They could be very vindictive and do that, but if things are so serious in India, that they are banned form sending funds to the UK and especially, with what was uncovered in the past for the likes of Glen Mullan and co, hopefully the football authorities and possibly even the legal system in the UK will be hot on their heels, so they may choose not to go down that route.

If they cannot send funds from India then the club basically becomes insolvent

They will have no choice but to sell, else they will fall foul of laws in the UK also

It has been an unmitigated disaster for Venkys and Rovers. A partnership forged in hell. Madam must be regretting the day she ever said yes to this. It seems like she's the only one who has any brain power. The other pair just look like lost souls with too much money to throw around

[Upside Down]

51 minutes ago, lraC said:

They could be very vindictive and do that, but if things are so serious in India, that they are banned form sending funds to the UK and especially, with what was uncovered in the past for the likes of Glen Mullan and co, hopefully the football authorities and possibly even the legal system in the UK will be hot on their heels, so they may choose not to go down that route.

The UK authorities will not do a fucking thing.

[philipl]

Most people as rich as these guys wouldn't have done anything as shoddy as mis-lable the acquisition of a private dwelling as a business expense or pass off a 3m piss-up birthday party as anything else. The tax benefits at the time were miniscule in the big picture of their wealth and the consequences more than a decade later are massively disproportionate.

Humiliating rank stupidity by the Raos personally in full public view. 

These are probably both Balaji doings when he was hanging around with Tantric Jerome and convinced his siblings and in-law to buy Rovers but the sins of 2010 have come back to haunt Rovers and the fans, club and town suffer yet again.

We don't know the appetite of Mr and Mrs Desai to continue picking up Balaji booboo tabs after the Bollywood studio and 200+m on Rovers etc etc.

We can be pretty damned certain they don't want the adverse publicity and being held up to both ridicule and scorn as not public spirited which this case is bringing. If there is any way they can settle and hush the whole thing up, they are certain to go that route if they can. 

So I very nuch doubt we are going to see either a public denouement or any clarity on Rovers finances any time soon and by that I mean before this transfer window closes.

Get your money on a 4th transfer deadline day balls up and this time Waggot getting fired...

 

[Herbie6590]

3 hours ago, lraC said:

I truly believe that the messages coming out of Ewood, distancing the club from this court hearing, are a huge smokescreen and have led some people to believe it won’t affect us.

The owners are under investigation for very serious criminal matters and the Indian authorities, want their pound of flesh.

As we have seen with posts on here, ED have been strongly opposed to them being allowed to send further funds and I am convinced the extra time they have had, since the two adjournments, will have given them more ammunition to ensure they are permanently banned from sending funds abroad. 
It will not go down too well, if they are now aware that the funds leave India to fund a project it in the UK that has been described as an investment, which in reality is just a pit that money disappears into and becomes at best becomes worth around 75% less than the amount invested, so this is anything but the foregone conclusion that we are being told it is.

Add to that the potential for Venky’s to lose the £15m sat in the bond and I think even the owners will have to admit defeat.

Make no mistake this court hearing, is potentially one of the most important events in the history of the club, despite the narrative, coming out of Ewood. 

I agree. It’s like me saying “my imprisonment for tax fraud will not affect my ability to continue to fund my children’s education…they aren’t linked..”.

 

For absolute clarity…I am not in prison currently…neither do I have children but hopefully you get the point 😆

[wilsdenrover]

15 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

I agree. It’s like me saying “my imprisonment for tax fraud will not affect my ability to continue to fund my children’s education…they aren’t linked..”.

 

For absolute clarity…I am not in prison currently…neither do I have children but hopefully you get the point 😆

currently??…