Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 13/11/2024 - Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[Exiled in Toronto Mk2]

9 hours ago, philipl said:

Previous post was factual as I see it.

This is purely non-factual and speculative. 

Nobody has remotely provided a rational explanation for the majority of the £270m sunk into Rovers. 

Prior to the 2012 relegation there is a shameful narrative which at least is rational.

Since then????

I am not making any assertion or allegations. 

 

But I do recall past cases of an American company or two making seemingly inexplicable operating losses overseas as a front for parallel cash and asset transfers away from IRS jurisdiction which overall were of greater benefit than the loss. The American authorities have made this sort of thing much more difficult. 

Hopefully, the Indian authorities are simply taking back asset values for a creative way of funding the now closed Swiss pharma business- if you were doing something creative moving assets out of India, Switzerland and Jersey make far more sense than the UK. Rovers in this case would be innocent collateral damage and Waggott has been told simply now is a sensitive time to transfer cash so hold tight for the moment. 

Being rational this is most likely.

 

However, if the Rovers ownership by Venky's is at the centre of something much more "creative" which has been busted by the Indian authorities, then those on brfcs dreaming of watching 7th tier football could be about to get their wishes fulfilled.

I can understand it if we had been largely paper losses, but it’s been entirely cash, most of which has gone in wages to not very good footballers. Who could benefit (and how) from disbursing that much cash on something that remains mostly value-less?

[lraC]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

I doubt the sentencing guidelines in India do not reflect the UK’s!

UK law is far different than India’s or anywhere else for that matter! 

I would not for one minute  doubt that, bit would think mortgage fraud anywhere in the world, would be pretty serious.

Given that Barclays have been mentioned and perhaps funding secured on a UK property, that would fall under UK law too and as already mentioned, is a very serious matter.

[Oldgregg86]

People that rich and powerful and dodgy won’t go to jail over this

[MarkBRFC]

 

 

 

[Exiled_Rover]

6 hours ago, booth said:

Sadly the club is further away from the PL than it's ever been.

No it's not.

[DE.]

5 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

 

 

 

That's, quite a lot, arguably an excessive amount, of commas.

[roverblue]

Can anyone translate what that actually means? 

[lraC]

9 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

People that rich and powerful and dodgy won’t go to jail over this

The Fleetwood owner did and before he was tried, many people thought exactly that too.

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

I doubt the sentencing guidelines in India do not reflect the UK’s!

UK law is far different than India’s or anywhere else for that matter! 

The Indian Law in question allows for a maximum jail term of five years.

I imagine that’s for a more serious offence though (unfortunately!)

[glen9mullan]

Venkys overseas only relation to venkys London is the directors.

That being said, if they are looking at the overseas company, you can bet they are also looking at London too.

You plough £200 million into something which you in turn into share equity and its value don't increase,   then its got to be worth a second look by those investigating.

Regardless of Rovers statement, we have already seen the ripple effect at rovers during the last two months, with also cut backs and lack of investment into the squad.

Doing some research on Zedra, also throws up a worrying similarity in terms of where they do business and office from those darkest days. (Also paper trail of money which PhilipL presented to the Premier League)

The newly listed company which replaces the old one too, also list the uk bases director as the person of responsibility.

its too early to see where the investigation is going, though I'd imagine the properties seized will be temporary until they pay some sort of fine, which will be a fraction of the money in question.

I'd be interested where they transferred the initial funds from given Venkys India is a listed company with shareholders?

If this cash has dropped out of there and not personal wealth, I imagine this could be a massive problem, especially with their share prices also on a massive decline and sales being down by 60% I think I read somewhere.

.

Edited September 6, 2023 by glen9mullan

[Miller11]

26 minutes ago, roverblue said:

Can anyone translate what that actually means? 

That people at the club are as in the dark as the supporters… or they are being instructed to give absolutely no detail.

[philipl]

OK, this is hearsay. I am sticking with my arguments that tax and special Government investigation were smokescreen

But when Gregg Broughton talked about geopolitics affecting the owners, he was on the money (or lack of it).

I will give an example on a much much smaller basis. Whenever Malta is under any global spotlight for how the Courts, prosecution service, financial regulators and so on work, it is best not to be doing anything innocent which nonetheless gets the attention of the authorities because they might need to use you as an example for how they seriously investigate tax compliance/ statutory filings/ cross border acquisitions/ customs compliance etc etc. 

On a vastly bigger scale the Indian Government plays the same game especially with a number of agenda items for hosting the forthcoming G-20 which it doesn't want disrupting by others finger pointing at non-enforcement at home.

So the football transfer window came at absolutely the wrong time for Venky's risking popping heads above the parapet by sending additional funds to Rovers. They, like many other Indian corporates, were experiencing the attentions of the Foreign Exchange Control people running round with instructions to put on a show.

Of course SWAG had to talk about the team bus to distract from the real reason for the sudden lack of support.

 

If this is right- everyone suggesting this is a passing storm  in a teacup are also right.

If it does pass and all other things are equal, we could have a decent winter window if we are close enough to the top of the table to make a difference.

JDT Project postponed, not cancelled if he can work a few more miracles for the next four months...

 

If this is not correct, Rovers are progressively going to be sucked into nasty sticky stuff.  

[den]

28 minutes ago, roverblue said:

Can anyone translate what that actually means? 

It means absolutely nothing.

Its a bit pathetic really.

[booth]

38 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

No it's not.

For most clubs, they could have a good season and sneak up a league through the play offs, for us we'll always have Venkys making sure we don't. JDT won't stick around wasting his precious time and he's the only one keeping the club from going the opposite way. Without him we're more likely to go back down to L1 than the PL.  Even with him as he's not a miracle worker.

[Andy]

12 minutes ago, philipl said:

OK, this is hearsay. I am sticking with my arguments that tax and special Government investigation were smokescreen

But when Gregg Broughton talked about geopolitics affecting the owners, he was on the money (or lack of it).

I will give an example on a much much smaller basis. Whenever Malta is under any global spotlight for how the Courts, prosecution service, financial regulators and so on work, it is best not to be doing anything innocent which nonetheless gets the attention of the authorities because they might need to use you as an example for how they seriously investigate tax compliance/ statutory filings/ cross border acquisitions/ customs compliance etc etc. 

On a vastly bigger scale the Indian Government plays the same game especially with a number of agenda items for hosting the forthcoming G-20 which it doesn't want disrupting by others finger pointing at non-enforcement at home.

So the football transfer window came at absolutely the wrong time for Venky's risking popping heads above the parapet by sending additional funds to Rovers. They, like many other Indian corporates, were experiencing the attentions of the Foreign Exchange Control people running round with instructions to put on a show.

Of course SWAG had to talk about the team bus to distract from the real reason for the sudden lack of support.

 

If this is right- everyone suggesting this is a passing storm  in a teacup are also right.

If it does pass and all other things are equal, we could have a decent winter window if we are close enough to the top of the table to make a difference.

JDT Project postponed, not cancelled if he can work a few more miracles for the next four months...

 

If this is not correct, Rovers are progressively going to be sucked into nasty sticky stuff.  

Seems the most logical scenario.

For the sake of the team, let’s hope it’s right.

[pick32]

Still currently own us and I can’t see why people would wish financial ruin on them 

[wilsdenrover]

22 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Venkys overseas only relation to venkys London is the directors.

That being said, if they are looking at the overseas company, you can bet they are also looking at London too.

You plough £200 million into something which you in turn into share equity and its value don't increase,   then its got to be worth a second look by those investigating.

Regardless of Rovers statement, we have already seen the ripple effect at rovers during the last two months, with also cut backs and lack of investment into the squad.

Doing some research on Zedra, also throws up a worrying similarity in terms of where they do business and office from those darkest days. (Also paper trail of money which PhilipL presented to the Premier League)

The newly listed company which replaces the old one too, also list the uk bases director as the person of responsibility.

its too early to see where the investigation is going, though I'd imagine the properties seized will be temporary until they pay some sort of fine, which will be a fraction of the money in question.

I'd be interested where they transferred the initial funds from given Venkys India is a listed company with shareholders?

If this cash has dropped out of there and not personal wealth, I imagine this could be a massive problem, especially with their share prices also on a massive decline and sales being down by 60% I think I read somewhere.

.

Relevant part of the law in question is below.

I’ve read on and can’t see (although I may have missed it) any reference to the return of the property on payment of a fine.

Edited September 6, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[wilsdenrover]

23 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Venkys overseas only relation to venkys London is the directors.

That being said, if they are looking at the overseas company, you can bet they are also looking at London too.

You plough £200 million into something which you in turn into share equity and its value don't increase,   then its got to be worth a second look by those investigating.

Regardless of Rovers statement, we have already seen the ripple effect at rovers during the last two months, with also cut backs and lack of investment into the squad.

Doing some research on Zedra, also throws up a worrying similarity in terms of where they do business and office from those darkest days. (Also paper trail of money which PhilipL presented to the Premier League)

The newly listed company which replaces the old one too, also list the uk bases director as the person of responsibility.

its too early to see where the investigation is going, though I'd imagine the properties seized will be temporary until they pay some sort of fine, which will be a fraction of the money in question.

I'd be interested where they transferred the initial funds from given Venkys India is a listed company with shareholders?

If this cash has dropped out of there and not personal wealth, I imagine this could be a massive problem, especially with their share prices also on a massive decline and sales being down by 60% I think I read somewhere.

.

Press release says funds were transferred from Venkateshwara Hatcheries Pvt Ltd 

[DE.]

13 minutes ago, pick32 said:

Still currently own us and I can’t see why people would wish financial ruin on them 

Probably because they've hollowed out the club we support for the last decade plus.

[Mattyblue]

The bloke that wanted injury ruin for Szmodics now has a conscience, for, err, the Rao’s of all people 🤷‍♂️

Edited September 6, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Exiled_Rover]

48 minutes ago, pick32 said:

Still currently own us and I can’t see why people would wish financial ruin on them 

Perhaps because they've ruined our football club?

[Crimpshrine]

1 hour ago, wilsdenrover said:

Press release says funds were transferred from Venkateshwara Hatcheries Pvt Ltd 

I thought that was odd - it is the company the bought the training ground, not the company that owns Rovers. 

[simongarnerisgod]

1 hour ago, pick32 said:

Still currently own us and I can’t see why people would wish financial ruin on them 

because they`ve spent 13 years ruining blackburn rovers

[wilsdenrover]

10 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

I thought that was odd - it is the company the bought the training ground, not the company that owns Rovers. 

Different company - the company that bought the training ground was Venkateshwara London Limited 

Edited September 6, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Armchair supporter supremo]

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

 

 

 

The fact that somebody at the club has even given a rare official response to a finance & ownership related story means to me that it's got a few bums twitching around the place.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Armchair supporter supremo