Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 13/11/2024 - Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[Rogerb]

On 06/06/2024 at 03:47, lraC said:

 

There is still no evidence that they can still send funds in the interim and the cleverly worded statement from Waggott to WATR does nothing to alter my belief that the cannot fund us until after the court hearing.

It remains to be seen what happens beyond the hearing, but it is certainly not the formality that was initially stated by the CEO. 

I don't think it is clear that after the court hearing funding will automatically be reinstated. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that if the directorate proves their case the V's could be banned from sending any money abroad. The directorate was pretty keen on that outcome to begin with prior to any decision hence the compromise until the hearing for detailed breakdowns of costs.

[lraC]

1 hour ago, Rogerb said:

I don't think it is clear that after the court hearing funding will automatically be reinstated. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that if the directorate proves their case the V's could be banned from sending any money abroad. The directorate was pretty keen on that outcome to begin with prior to any decision hence the compromise until the hearing for detailed breakdowns of costs.

I fully agree and despite the positive soundbites form certain quarters, I think it is more likely than not, that a permanent ban will be the final decision.

[tomphil]

It's over for them if they can't send money or it is very restricted to far lesser amounts from now on.

Club will just wither away - its been  doing that anyway despite their funds - but once the cash cows have been offloaded it's game over.

Any responsible ownership would by now have contingency plans in place or be actively seeking a buyer or investor.

[Norbert Rassragr]

I can see them just closing the club down instead of selling it. Then again I am a pessimist when it comes to Rovers. If the Rao rats did sell up, I'm expecting some Chinese professional gambler who invests in Crypto currency and NFTs to turn up with that Bassini clown. 

[ABBEY]

STILL A BETTER OPTION

[ageoftherover]

On 10/06/2024 at 08:19, broadsword said:

The absolute fucking mess of that

This site needs a vomit emoji. 🤮

[tomphil]

6 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

I can see them just closing the club down instead of selling it. Then again I am a pessimist when it comes to Rovers. If the Rao rats did sell up, I'm expecting some Chinese professional gambler who invests in Crypto currency and NFTs to turn up with that Bassini clown. 

They'll just let Waggot and the shadow MD continue the managed decline with all assets gone but running costs massively reduced.

That'll make us a mid table league 1 club but will only cost them 5 or 6 million a year which the Indian govt may allow and the tax won't be much.

Sadly i think that option is written in the stars at the min.

[Upside Down]

5 hours ago, tomphil said:

They'll just let Waggot and the shadow MD continue the managed decline with all assets gone but running costs massively reduced.

That'll make us a mid table league 1 club but will only cost them 5 or 6 million a year which the Indian govt may allow and the tax won't be much.

Sadly i think that option is written in the stars at the min.

Well they tried to deliberately relegate us last year.

I suspect this is the reason.

[tomphil]

34 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Well they tried to deliberately relegate us last year.

I suspect this is the reason.

Almost like they've no use for us now they can't put 20 mill through the books !

[Eddie]

16 hours ago, tomphil said:

Almost like they've no use for us now they can't put 20 mill through the books !

I think they're negligent and incompetent, but no one is going to be able to explain to me why billionaires would be so concerned with putting £20 million a year through a business for any nefarious purposes. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

I think they're negligent and incompetent, but no one is going to be able to explain to me why billionaires would be so concerned with putting £20 million a year through a business for any nefarious purposes. 

It's not directly out of their own pockets it comes via the VH group of companies so it's like a soak away of profits to prop up an English football club with nothing in return except a bit of advertising.

There is something at the heart of all that serves them some sort of use and it's a hill i will die on. Not necessarily nefarious but maybe some loophole or other that their financial whizz kids can exploit, or could i should say.

Impossible for anyone to prove without knowing how the accounts actually roll but the fact they ended up under investigation in the first place suggests suspicion stretches beyond the realms of BRFC.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

It's not directly out of their own pockets it comes via the VH group of companies so it's like a soak away of profits to prop up an English football club with nothing in return except a bit of advertising.

There is something at the heart of all that serves them some sort of use and it's a hill i will die on. Not necessarily nefarious but maybe some loophole or other that their financial whizz kids can exploit, or could i should say.

Impossible for anyone to prove without knowing how the accounts actually roll but the fact they ended up under investigation in the first place suggests suspicion stretches beyond the realms of BRFC.

It's possible, but I think the much more likely explanation is that they originally believed that owning an English football club would be a great status symbol and good for their brand.

It then turned out to be a lot harder than they had expected - and probably been sold - and now they're too proud and stubborn to admit defeat when it 'only' costs them £20 million a year.

That still isn't good news for us and it might mean that they'd prefer to see us going out of business over selling us to someone else, but the conspiracy theories seem a bit of a stretch.

The only one that has ever made a slight bit of sense to me is the possibility that the actual ownership of the club might not be as clearcut as originally thought, but I still struggle to believe that this would be dragging on for over a decade with very little tangible benefit to anyone. 

[Upside Down]

5 hours ago, tomphil said:

It's not directly out of their own pockets it comes via the VH group of companies so it's like a soak away of profits to prop up an English football club with nothing in return except a bit of advertising.

There is something at the heart of all that serves them some sort of use and it's a hill i will die on. Not necessarily nefarious but maybe some loophole or other that their financial whizz kids can exploit, or could i should say.

Impossible for anyone to prove without knowing how the accounts actually roll but the fact they ended up under investigation in the first place suggests suspicion stretches beyond the realms of BRFC.

You have to really make some effort to have the government undertake a full blown investigation against you.

There's more there than the unpaid tax on a house.

[lraC]

17 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

You have to really make some effort to have the government undertake a full blown investigation against you.

There's more there than the unpaid tax on a house.

Imagine if the tax authorities in India are completing a thorough investigation and they go back to the very beginning. For those who can drag that to the front of their minds, there was some debate about the source of the £20m used to buy the club.

Hopefully the owners have the proof that they sent the funds and paid the relevant tax, as there could be some fun, if they either claim it was indeed not their money, or they don’t have the paper trail still in place. 

[tomphil]

I was thinking if the Indian govt really have it in for them they might try and sting them for the tax on 200 million they would have paid on that profit had it not been sent over here to a huge loss making British arm of their company.

Venkys London ltd.

[Eddie]

37 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

You have to really make some effort to have the government undertake a full blown investigation against you.

There's more there than the unpaid tax on a house.

It doesn't require quite as much effort in India at the moment. 

[ageoftherover]

Nefarious or incompetent. Doesn't really matter that much.

[Crimpshrine]

On 12/06/2024 at 14:31, Eddie said:

I think they're negligent and incompetent, but no one is going to be able to explain to me why billionaires would be so concerned with putting £20 million a year through a business for any nefarious purposes. 

For the same reason they declared a £7 million mansion for use in the poultry business rather than for private use - it saves on tax. 

Rich people like to avoid tax.

[Mike E]

On 12/06/2024 at 21:36, lraC said:

Imagine if the tax authorities in India are completing a thorough investigation and they go back to the very beginning. For those who can drag that to the front of their minds, there was some debate about the source of the £20m used to buy the club.

Hopefully the owners have the proof that they sent the funds and paid the relevant tax, as there could be some fun, if they either claim it was indeed not their money, or they don’t have the paper trail still in place. 

Why do I recall mention of a really specific branch of Western Union? I want to say Bradford?

[Eddie]

9 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

For the same reason they declared a £7 million mansion for use in the poultry business rather than for private use - it saves on tax. 

Rich people like to avoid tax.

A bit of creativity in their tax returns and exploring tax avoidance is one thing, taking on an asset that is guaranteed to lose money year after year because...?

 

[lraC]

7 hours ago, Mike E said:

Why do I recall mention of a really specific branch of Western Union? I want to say Bradford?

Spot on. With it being so long ago, they probably thought they had got away with it too. There is a reason for the 7 months gap between the original date and the new date in August. Hopefully, that’s enough time to dig very deep and find that smoking gun that surely exists. 

[Moptop1]

Of course there is something in all this. Problem is finding out what it is.

Nothing has been found in the past 14 years. Let’s hope they find something on them. 

Maybe then the house of cards will start to crumble…

Edited June 14 by Moptop1

[lraC]

1 hour ago, Moptop1 said:

Of course there is something in all this. Problem is finding out what it is.

Nothing has been found in the past 14 years. Let’s hope they find something on them. 

Maybe then the house of cards will start to crumble…

It seems to me that the source of the investigation is far stronger than anything that has been tried before.

History tells us that there didn’t seem to be an appetite to take the people to task who were involved in all this from the start. Even the likes of Richard Scudamore were squirming with the evidence presented to him, but it seemed that agents and even the football authorities, had connections that ran deeper than we will ever know.

From what I have seen and heard and from the people I have spoken to, there is evidence there of wrong doing and given what the authorities in India have already done, I would be feeling very uncomfortable now, if I was involved in it. 

[Upside Down]

22 minutes ago, lraC said:

It seems to me that the source of the investigation is far stronger than anything that has been tried before.

History tells us that there didn’t seem to be an appetite to take the people to task who were involved in all this from the start. Even the likes of Richard Scudamore were squirming with the evidence presented to him, but it seemed that agents and even the football authorities, had connections that ran deeper than we will ever know.

From what I have seen and heard and from the people I have spoken to, there is evidence there of wrong doing and given what the authorities in India have already done, I would be feeling very uncomfortable now, if I was involved in it. 

I don't expect anything punitive to happen to them, these kinds of scum never have to answer for their crimes, I just want Rovers to be free of them.

[tomphil]

Only way anything happens is if they forensically crawl across all the transactions between VLL and the club and every club transaction for the last 14 years.

Can't see the Indian authorities doing that or being able to do that so they'd have to present something to British authorities who probably aren't arsed anyway.

So as it is it's just looking at money movement from VH group to VLL and all its thrown up is the property purchase and Akon investment. I suspect all the hold up now just surrounds them getting back the Indian assets that were seized to the value of the dodgy transactions which they could probably get away with saying were done by mistake.