Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 13/1/2025 - Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[Valconite]

We will never get rid of them. They'll make sure the club seizes to exist rather than sell and eff off. No doubt alot of dodgy things been going on that they don't want coming out during a sale.  Nothing else makes sense. No normal businessmen would run a business like this.

[lraC]

11 hours ago, Valconite said:

We will never get rid of them. They'll make sure the club seizes to exist rather than sell and eff off. No doubt alot of dodgy things been going on that they don't want coming out during a sale.  Nothing else makes sense. No normal businessmen would run a business like this.

There is very little doubt in my mind, that the only reason they hold onto the club, is their fear of things coming out, from the original takeover, that could create huge problems for them.

We have already heard about property being seized and the article in the National press, now eludes to money laundering being one of the reasons an Indian business gets investigated by the ED.

For them to be clinging on like they are, despite this adverse publicity now that is in our national press, combined with the legal costs, they must be faced with, given the 4 adjournments, as usual does not make any sense.

No doubt the no impediment line trotted out was their idea, to keep the fans at bay, thinking they choose not to fund us rather than they are prevented from funding us, but the suggestion now that we are not far from running out of money, would surely provoke a reaction, but still nothing. 
 

[47er]

2 hours ago, lraC said:

There is very little doubt in my mind, that the only reason they hold onto the club, is their fear of things coming out, from the original takeover, that could create huge problems for them.

We have already heard about property being seized and the article in the National press, now eludes to money laundering being one of the reasons an Indian business gets investigated by the ED.

For them to be clinging on like they are, despite this adverse publicity now that is in our national press, combined with the legal costs, they must be faced with, given the 4 adjournments, as usual does not make any sense.

No doubt the no impediment line trotted out was their idea, to keep the fans at bay, thinking they choose not to fund us rather than they are prevented from funding us, but the suggestion now that we are not far from running out of money, would surely provoke a reaction, but still nothing. 
 

So how about the Football authorities taking an interest for a start? And then some action.

Or ar they prepared to see one of the World's oldest clubs simply fade away?

Surely there's plenty to get their teething here?

Can they force owners to sell a club that can't or won't manage?

 

Edited Saturday at 08:14 by 47er

[KentExile]

13 minutes ago, 47er said:

So how about the Football authorities taking an interest for a start? And then some action.

Or ar they prepared to see one of the World's oldest clubs simply fade away?

Surely there's plenty to get their teething here?

Can they force owners to sell a club that can't or won't manage?

 

Yes, as long as we fade away quietly and without much fuss

[Herbie6590]

16 minutes ago, 47er said:

So how about the Football authorities taking an interest for a start? And then some action.

Or ar they prepared to see one of the World's oldest clubs simply fade away?

Surely there's plenty to get their teething here?

Can they force owners to sell a club that can't or won't manage?

 

There’s nothing for UK football administrators presently to investigate. The club continues to pay its bills. The club has not broken any FA or EFL rules. All the issues are with the parent in India. The EFL/FA can only get involved when the issues manifest themselves in their jurisdiction. 

[Forever Blue]

The £20m a year they’ve been putting into the club is a drop in the ocean to them. Rovers is just a play thing for very very rich people. 
 

There is no great conspiracy.
 

 

[philipl]

It is very obvious 14 years in that the Raos are trapped in having to own the Rovers but the reason and nature of the trap can only be guessed at.

Kentaro folk were not very nice people and that is a massive understatement. Horrific things were done, extreme threats issued but I find it difficult to believe that a family of the wealth of the Raos living where and how they do could be effectively threatened even by the worst of the people in the Kentaro circle. 

More possible is that bad as the reputational damage has been to the Venky's name, there are revelations which could emerge which would be even worse and are worth the size of cash hits they are taking at Rovers. If Venky's didn't even put the original purchase price in themselves, it wouldn't look particularly good for them. That is just me speculating...

However, a more likely scenario could be the following. For all its bureaucratic sclerosis, India is a country of law with criminal justice which can go after the richest and most powerful. For a family as wealthy as the Raos, it is beyond comprehension that they misrepresented 10m spent on a property and a birthday party to the tax authorities. Rao rich families have professionals working for them who make sure all documentation and reporting is immaculate so the really big tax saving schemes which will have been intricately negotiated and agreed with the authorities can never be looked at again because eg a birthday party categorised as a pharmaceutical investment triggered a general taxation investigation. That was either sloppy or Balaji hiding his errant ways- either are bad looks, or symptomatic of far worse that needs to be kept under wraps in Pune. These are also potentially criminal issues and it could be other things in the Kentaro/Venky's interface went on which run counter to Indian Law. Perhaps Indian Betting legislation is an area which could be problematical? The surest way of controlling access to any evidence is by sitting on it...

Long and short of it is there has been no commercial or even emotional logic to the continuing Venky's/ Rovers entanglement.

So folks like me will speculate...

[philipl]

6 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

The £20m a year they’ve been putting into the club is a drop in the ocean to them. Rovers is just a play thing for very very rich people. 
 

There is no great conspiracy.
 

 

They are reported to be worth 2 billion, I have seen 4 billion reliably estimated.

Squirting 0.25 billion on Rovers is not a "drop in the ocean" and it is also by far the most public thing they are involved in.

[lraC]

15 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

The £20m a year they’ve been putting into the club is a drop in the ocean to them. Rovers is just a play thing for very very rich people. 
 

There is no great conspiracy.
 

 

If it is such a drop in the ocean, why are  we are now being asked to believe that double that hurts, as they have put 0 in since there were forced to effectively pay £2 for every £1 given the bond. 
if as is being suggested the very existence of the club is at risk, perhaps putting £10m in and the same in a bond might help. 

[Forever Blue]

1 minute ago, lraC said:

If it is such a drop in the ocean, why are  we are now being asked to believe that double that hurts, as they have put 0 in since there were forced to effectively pay £2 for every £1 given the bond. 
if as is being suggested the very existence of the club is at risk, perhaps putting £10m in and the same in a bond might help. 

My guess is that as this is clearly political they are not willing to pay the bond to the Indian Authorities on principle. 
 

 

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

My guess is that as this is clearly political they are not willing to pay the bond to the Indian Authorities on principle. 
 

 

Maybe, but the consequences of this look somewhat dire. 

[Forever Blue]

Just now, lraC said:

Maybe, but the consequences of this look somewhat dire. 

You were adamant a few months ago, along with a few others, that they couldn’t fund the club due to the court ruling. I said they could and explained why. I notice Crimpshine has recently corroborated exactly what I was saying a few months ago, even though he and others claimed I was talking shite at the time. 
 

Put simply, there is no LEGAL impediment to funding, only that the owners have chosen not to fund. The court case isn’t really about BRFC, the club is just caught in the political crossfire. I would also imagine the court delays are no coincidence, the Indian authorities are happy to let this drag out. 
 

This will reach critical mass once the Wharton, Raya and Szmodics money can no longer pay the bills. Unless of course Venkys have a change of heart or the bond is removed. 

[47er]

38 minutes ago, philipl said:

It is very obvious 14 years in that the Raos are trapped in having to own the Rovers but the reason and nature of the trap can only be guessed at.

Kentaro folk were not very nice people and that is a massive understatement. Horrific things were done, extreme threats issued but I find it difficult to believe that a family of the wealth of the Raos living where and how they do could be e

Long and short of it is there has been no commercial or even emotional logic to the continuing Venky's/ Rovers entanglement.

So folks like me will speculate...

It hangs together imo.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

There’s nothing for UK football administrators presently to investigate. The club continues to pay its bills. The club has not broken any FA or EFL rules. All the issues are with the parent in India. The EFL/FA can only get involved when the issues manifest themselves in their jurisdiction. 

If there's no ability to fund the club, how can they be appropriate owners? Do we have to wait till we are bankrupt and bills aren't paid?

It seems to me the owners can't guarantee they can run the club next year.

 

[G Somerset Rover]

14 minutes ago, 47er said:

If there's no ability to fund the club, how can they be appropriate owners? Do we have to wait till we are bankrupt and bills aren't paid?

It seems to me the owners can't guarantee they can run the club next year.

 

As above, I don’t think we’ll find out until the Wharton/Szmodics instalments dry up. Summer perhaps? Unless Carter has a stormer of a second half to the season and goes for decent money then the never ending journey continues.

Edited Saturday at 10:28 by G Somerset Rover

[Forever Blue]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

They are reported to be worth 2 billion, I have seen 4 billion reliably estimated.

Squirting 0.25 billion on Rovers is not a "drop in the ocean" and it is also by far the most public thing they are involved in.

£20m a year is a drop in the ocean when you’re a billionaire. Big Baz probably spends more than that on parties.

[Forever Blue]

9 minutes ago, G Somerset Rover said:

As above, I don’t think we’ll find out until the Wharton/Szmodics instalments dry up. Summer perhaps? Unless Carter has a stormer of a second half to the season and goes for decent money then the never ending journey continues.

If we guess at £35m in total from the recent money generated from transfers, spread over the next 3 years, that’s £12m (ish) a year. Add in the £5m extra a year the club is getting for the new TV deal and you’re not far short of the £20m (ish) a year Venkys have been putting in. 
 

So maybe the tipping point is a couple of years away if nothing else changes.

[47er]

27 minutes ago, G Somerset Rover said:

As above, I don’t think we’ll find out until the Wharton/Szmodics instalments dry up. Summer perhaps? Unless Carter has a stormer of a second half to the season and goes for decent money then the never ending journey continues.

I suppose I just can't accept that the guardians of the game can't be pro-active on behalf of the clubs and their fans.

What's wrong with a letter to the owners along the lines of "reports have reached us that the club you own may not be solvent within the next few months. Could you please confirm whether or not these reports are accurate and , if so, what plans have you in train to ensure this doesn't happen?"

If no reply or no adequate reply they should be able to impose measures or force the owners to sell.

What's the point of trying to act when its too late with measures that simply push the club further in the mire----like fines or points deductions?

The system is rubbish and full of highly-paid officials who seem to do nothing much while the real supporters are left to suffer.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 hours ago, KentExile said:

Yes, as long as we fade away quietly and without much fuss

My favourite banner in the protests read:" The F.A. left us to Die!"

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 minutes ago, 47er said:

I suppose I just can't accept that the guardians of the game can't be pro-active on behalf of the clubs and their fans.

What's wrong with a letter to the owners along the lines of "reports have reached us that the club you own may not be solvent within the next few months. Could you please confirm whether or not these reports are accurate and , if so, what plans have you in train to ensure this doesn't happen?"

If no reply or no adequate reply they should be able to impose measures or force the owners to sell.

What's the point of trying to act when its too late with measures that simply push the club further in the mire----like fines or points deductions?

The system is rubbish and full of highly-paid officials who seem to do nothing much while the real supporters are left to suffer.

This reminds me of a damning line often used in child abuse investigations...

The football authorities have shown a distinct absence of curiosity...

[simongarnerisgod]

it would be the best thing to happen for us if the club is put in administration or even liquidation,there will always be a rovers in whatever division we are in,bury were liquidated as were macceslfield,both of them on the up now,just like a fresh restart,eventually both of them will be back to the level they were once at

tbh i would be buzzing if rovers ended at the very bottom,imagine us in the west lancashire league,creating choas at euxton villa,coppull utd and garstang fc😆

it most likely won`t happen but the above is the "worst case scenario" as long as it gets rid of venkys i would be happy

[Mashed Potatoes]

14 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

it would be the best thing to happen for us if the club is put in administration or even liquidation,there will always be a rovers in whatever division we are in,bury were liquidated as were macceslfield,both of them on the up now,just like a fresh restart,eventually both of them will be back to the level they were once at

tbh i would be buzzing if rovers ended at the very bottom,imagine us in the west lancashire league,creating choas at euxton villa,coppull utd and garstang fc😆

it most likely won`t happen but the above is the "worst case scenario" as long as it gets rid of venkys i would be happy

You might be happy but all the people who lose their livelihoods as a result would not be. A very selfish attitude on your part.

[simongarnerisgod]

18 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

You might be happy but all the people who lose their livelihoods as a result would not be. A very selfish attitude on your part.

did i not quote "there will always be a rovers????" therefore there will always be ewood park and jobs for people,in fact there would probably  be more jobs than there is now,we would`nt have the waggot factor cutting expenses and everything else he dreams up

[Mashed Potatoes]

6 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

did i not quote "there will always be a rovers????" therefore there will always be ewood park and jobs for people,in fact there would probably  be more jobs than there is now,we would`nt have the waggot factor cutting expenses and everything else he dreams up

You think a club playing in the West Lancashire League will have over 200 employees ?

According to the club's 2023 accounts the number of employees at the club increased from 209 in 2022 to 221 in 2023.

[simongarnerisgod]

18 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

You think a club playing in the West Lancashire League will have over 200 employees ?

According to the club's 2023 accounts the number of employees at the club increased from 209 in 2022 to 221 in 2023.

i think you are getting rather carried away with the employment issue my point was rather hypothetical anyway,definately a worst case scenario and the the fact the club will always be here,it won`t cease to exist and will be venky free