Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 13/1/2025 - Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[Mattyblue]

That was the Souness era (think they were in the third division in the Kenny era). Had a good couple of dos in their old away terrace with no roof.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

According to the last pre Venkys set of accounts in 2010 there were 253 employees compared with 221 in 2023 so a loss of 32 jobs over those 13 years.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that the club should just exist to provide employment but it seems to me to be callous to be actively hoping for a course of events that will cause some people hardship.

We've been through all this ad nauseam and its been pointed out before as long as the club exists and is trading and playing football even if its in admin then the majority will remain employed.

Only in the event of a slash and burn policy would that change.

If the club tumbled down the leagues through lack of investment which is a real possibility then jobs will be lost anyway, even one relegation will see job loses.

So we are always in that ballpark anyway it's probably a question of when not if because of the financial trajectory we are on. A large bulk of those 200 plus on the payroll will be matchday staff like stewards etc.

Clubs are over stocked with kids standing around in orange tops with their hands in their pockets anyway but that is down to over zealous regulations.  Sorry i'm not crying into my pillow about a reduction in that lot most are young enough to find something else and not many will give a stuff about Rovers anyway.

It's just a once or twice a week couple of hours gig and the ONLY people to blame would be the ownership and operators of the club not fans wishing for radical change, a lot of whom put money INTO the club.

[Forever Blue]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

That was the Souness era (think they were in the third division in the Kenny era). Had a good couple of dos in their old away terrace with no roof.

The old grey matter is not what it was! Was  that when Kevin Francis played for them?

[Mattyblue]

Early 90s definitely.

Stockport and Tranmere are two clubs and away days I always mix up.

[rigger]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

Early 90s definitely.

Stockport and Tranmere are two clubs and away days I always mix up.

Tranmere, more often than not was on a Friday night.

[Mattyblue]

Bit like Tranmere trying to attract a few LFC/Everton fans, pretty sure Stockport used to play a fair bit on a Friday too to try and attract the locals that were City ‘fans’.

[simongarnerisgod]

10 hours ago, Southside Rover said:

Could you imagine trying to fund the running of Ewood park playing even in National League let alone the base and working the way back up

you do exactly what swag has been doing,shut down a stand or two,the maintanence has`nt been kept up with either,so in essence ,the situation would be the same as we have now

[Rogerb]

2 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

you do exactly what swag has been doing,shut down a stand or two,the maintanence has`nt been kept up with either,so in essence ,the situation would be the same as we have now

Swag has already trialed this with cup games in recent times with everyone in the Jack Walker

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 hours ago, rigger said:

Tranmere, more often than not was on a Friday night.

Who remembers:

"Field shines, as Blackburn romp to victory"

November '71..Furphy's revivalism...

But in those days everyone within the club and on the terraces wanted the same thing.

[broadsword]

If they were hoping for the club to go bust so that the books would be buried, haven't they got the right set of circumstances now for this? 

Otherwise, why the fuck do they still own us? What is it that they're getting out of the whole miserable experience? I just don't understand at all. Too make such a bad fist of it and refuse to let go, it's either stupidity or something sinister

[bluebruce]

Just some thoughts on the notion the club seem to have, of funding the club with mostly academy player sales.

I may be forgetting someone, but in the last 5 sesasons (going back to summer 2019 rather than November 2019 obviously) we have sold the following youth players:

Raya (3 million, seems to have risen to something like 6-8 million since we were fortunate enough he went on to be sold for 30 mill)

Wharton (21 million ish, may be a bit more to gain in future)

Phillips (think this one was 2.5 mill rising to 5 mill based on clauses?)

Finneran (probably get 500k compo?)

So assuming all clauses met, but ignoring sell-ons because we can't know that will happen or what we'll get and it won't happen within a 5 season span, that's in the region of 32-34.5 mill from academy players. So a little under 7 million per season. We also spend about 1.5 million a season I think it is, on running the academy, but we'll ignore that since we get the benefit of squad players on mostly lower wages.

The club leaks about 20 million a season, so that's still 13 million a season to try to find from somewhere. If India can't/won't fund that, then it's unsustainable.

However, the picture gets worse when we also consider that more than half of that money came from one player, Adam Wharton, a generational talent. Not only are we not guaranteed by any stretch to be able to produce a player like that every 5 years, but we were extremely fortunate that he happened to be a Blackburn Rovers fan, and one that actually gave a monkeys about playing for us and was happy to sign contracts giving us protection. Most top talents are liable to go the way of Finneran or Phillips, and give us minimal protection if clubs are sniffing whilst they're 16-18, which they're increasingly doing since we've shown we can produce real talents, and since the young player farming method has become widespread with all Prem clubs not just the big boys. Swap that Wharton fee for another Phillips fee, if the next amazing prospect isn't a committed fan, and that 5 year average turns into less than 3 million a year to contribute towards our 20 million in annual losses.

[Waggy76]

1 hour ago, broadsword said:

If they were hoping for the club to go bust so that the books would be buried, haven't they got the right set of circumstances now for this? 

Otherwise, why the fuck do they still own us? What is it that they're getting out of the whole miserable experience? I just don't understand at all. Too make such a bad fist of it and refuse to let go, it's either stupidity or something sinister

The Venky ownership, was doomed from day one, people denounced it in the media, that it was wrong and didn't seem right... 

Why did they ever buy us and why have they never, put the club up for sale? 

The club is rotten to the core! 

Edited Sunday at 18:51 by Waggy76

[Upside Down]

11 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

See my post above.

So people have lost their jobs under venkys, thanks for confirming what I've been saying.

And the disastrous effect on the town and wider East Lancs area?

[Southside Rover]

12 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

11,328 at Stockport County yesterday.

And? Is that the Stockport in league 1 right?

The number is good for them but are they charging £30 to watch? Depending how you split the ticket banding at best you can say it's an average of £20 they will be bringing in. Even in the National league they would have been charging lower but unfortunately the costs of electric, gas, water, catering, stewards, police, maintenance etc. cost the same so having a big old grand stadium with less people coming through the gate and lower priced tickets would run the club into the ground anyway.

Great for Stockport to be on the way back up but did they go right to the bottom division and spend x number of years to return back to the football league? No they only dropped to the 6th tier, not right to the bottom as was suggested.

Even the 6th tier for us would be a disaster. Player salaries would be so high the players would literally be released from their contracts to get them off the wage bill. The away fans will be next to nothing. Believe it or not, even the home attendances would drop with those not interested in non league football staying away more often than not.

Then if the team struggles even some of those that stick will drift.

Yes I'm sure the anti Venky brigade that stay away would come back with them gone to balance the numbers a bit but 6th tier must be £10 a ticket I would guess. 

A stadium like ours at that level would actually be a hinderence.

For the record, even when the mighty Rovers came to town earlier in the season there were less than 6,000 there and around 20% of that figure was our fans.

It's also worth noting, Stockport almost lost their stadium until the council stepped in. The council purchased the stadium and leased it back to the club, putting £2 million into the bank for ongoing operating costs, transfer fees, whatever but that burden was taken on by the council. Who knows if the council would do the same for Ewood but at 3 times the size of Edgeley bark and the cost of property now compared to 2015, I think that number would be closer to double figures and unrealistic for the council.

The romantic in us all would love to see the club bounce back in its old surroundings but the likelihood is very very low.

That's not me being pro Venky by the way and saying we owe them this or that, I am just firmly of the belief we need something else lined up before it's taken away.

If celebrities and overseas investors can get excited about clubs like Tranmere and Wrexham, I see no reason why someone wouldn't be tempted. It's not perfect to inherit but take away Venkys, Waggott etc. and the club has a lot going in its favour.

[Southside Rover]

11 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

you do exactly what swag has been doing,shut down a stand or two,the maintanence has`nt been kept up with either,so in essence ,the situation would be the same as we have now

And so you expect attendences of 13,000 ish people paying £30 a ticket to watch us play at the bottom of the football pyramid? 13,000 being generous considering there's next to no away fans?

[Upside Down]

39 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

And? Is that the Stockport in league 1 right?

The number is good for them but are they charging £30 to watch? Depending how you split the ticket banding at best you can say it's an average of £20 they will be bringing in. Even in the National league they would have been charging lower but unfortunately the costs of electric, gas, water, catering, stewards, police, maintenance etc. cost the same so having a big old grand stadium with less people coming through the gate and lower priced tickets would run the club into the ground anyway.

Great for Stockport to be on the way back up but did they go right to the bottom division and spend x number of years to return back to the football league? No they only dropped to the 6th tier, not right to the bottom as was suggested.

Even the 6th tier for us would be a disaster. Player salaries would be so high the players would literally be released from their contracts to get them off the wage bill. The away fans will be next to nothing. Believe it or not, even the home attendances would drop with those not interested in non league football staying away more often than not.

Then if the team struggles even some of those that stick will drift.

Yes I'm sure the anti Venky brigade that stay away would come back with them gone to balance the numbers a bit but 6th tier must be £10 a ticket I would guess. 

A stadium like ours at that level would actually be a hinderence.

For the record, even when the mighty Rovers came to town earlier in the season there were less than 6,000 there and around 20% of that figure was our fans.

It's also worth noting, Stockport almost lost their stadium until the council stepped in. The council purchased the stadium and leased it back to the club, putting £2 million into the bank for ongoing operating costs, transfer fees, whatever but that burden was taken on by the council. Who knows if the council would do the same for Ewood but at 3 times the size of Edgeley bark and the cost of property now compared to 2015, I think that number would be closer to double figures and unrealistic for the council.

The romantic in us all would love to see the club bounce back in its old surroundings but the likelihood is very very low.

That's not me being pro Venky by the way and saying we owe them this or that, I am just firmly of the belief we need something else lined up before it's taken away.

If celebrities and overseas investors can get excited about clubs like Tranmere and Wrexham, I see no reason why someone wouldn't be tempted. It's not perfect to inherit but take away Venkys, Waggott etc. and the club has a lot going in its favour.

There's already been numerous offers made to buy the club so all these doomsday scenarios are a load of bollocks.

We're still one of only seven teams to have won the League since 1992, as you say if someone was interested in buying Tranmere Rovers then Blackburn Rovers will easily be scooped up.

The scenario in which we end up completely having to start again will only happen with venkys in control.

[Rogerb]

Adult ticket on the day is £18 at Chorley for 6th tier football your ten pounds is more Bamber Bridge level

[Mattyblue]

Plenty of clubs in non league charge £20+ a ticket.

 

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Plenty of clubs in non league charge £20+ a ticket.

 

It was £20 for adults at Stanley on Saturday for adults. I watched a Step 4 match on Friday night and that was £11 for adults.

[Mattyblue]

Scunthorpe in tier 6 for example charge £20.

Think fans would be in for a bit of a surprise if we ended up like a Notts County with a big stadium and big costs in non league that it would be a tenner a ticket every week.

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, Upside Down said:

There's already been numerous offers made to buy the club so all these doomsday scenarios are a load of bollocks.

We're still one of only seven teams to have won the League since 1992, as you say if someone was interested in buying Tranmere Rovers then Blackburn Rovers will easily be scooped up.

The scenario in which we end up completely having to start again will only happen with venkys in control.

Exactly, the best case scenario for everyone is if Vs do the decent thing and say we are prepared to walk away and will listen to serious offers.

Sadly though with people looking in the most suited people to buy it would after observing the financial problems probably hang back waiting for admin to get it cheaper.  

This is a situation all of the owners making, nobody else and the very least they should do is look for serious investment from the UK or Europe.  Problem is the model we want and need for a club like this really needs to be the all out benefactor model because no returns can be made without being a Prem club.

However it needs someone prepared to put a plan in place and take a modest gamble, Luton, Brentford, that lot owned by Yank spivs as well are all great examples.

It can be done and although the Raos seem wealthy enough their funding model even before this latest mess isn't one which allows player investment significantly. Then we have the major issues that they are clueless, employ their equally clueless friends and advisers and just don't seem bothered.

Just why have they been so happy owning a club that until the Indian authorities jumped in was bobbling along losing 20 mill a year and they would never give it that extra push despite twice being right in the promotion mix ?????

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Exactly, the best case scenario for everyone is if Vs do the decent thing and say we are prepared to walk away and will listen to serious offers.

Sadly though with people looking in the most suited people to buy it would after observing the financial problems probably hang back waiting for admin to get it cheaper.  

This is a situation all of the owners making, nobody else and the very least they should do is look for serious investment from the UK or Europe.  Problem is the model we want and need for a club like this really needs to be the all out benefactor model because no returns can be made without being a Prem club.

However it needs someone prepared to put a plan in place and take a modest gamble, Luton, Brentford, that lot owned by Yank spivs as well are all great examples.

It can be done and although the Raos seem wealthy enough their funding model even before this latest mess isn't one which allows player investment significantly. Then we have the major issues that they are clueless, employ their equally clueless friends and advisers and just don't seem bothered.

Just why have they been so happy owning a club that until the Indian authorities jumped in was bobbling along losing 20 mill a year and they would never give it that extra push despite twice being right in the promotion mix ?????

Just sighing at the same sentence containing "Venky's" and "do the decent thing"!

And there's me thinking Paradox was just a kind of washing powder...

[MarkBRFC]

3 hours ago, tomphil said:

Exactly, the best case scenario for everyone is if Vs do the decent thing and say we are prepared to walk away and will listen to serious offers.

Anyone still waiting for someone to do the decent thing after 14 years of abuse probably needs to accept that it isn't going to happen.

[tomphil]

47 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Anyone still waiting for someone to do the decent thing after 14 years of abuse probably needs to accept that it isn't going to happen.

If you're a billionaire then yes you'd register an interest in buying then give up but why would anyone with time on their hands pay 50 million for something they might get for nothing but still have debts to clear.  

I think there'd be a lot of interest in a club like Rovers if it ended up in admin as long as the debts owed weren't horrific.

[Herbie6590]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

 

And there's me thinking Paradox was just a kind of washing powder...

"Two more from them in session later...now...Napalm Death..."