Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 13/1/2025 - Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[rob_of_the_rovers]

Where does this put us for the three year profit and sustainability window?

Edit: I've just taken a look and for the past three years we've had the following losses:

20/21: £6.6m

21/22: £11.2m

22/23: £20.9m

Which comes to £38.7m which is just below the £39m losses allowed for a three year window. Suspiciously close if you ask me. Also leaves us with only a £7m buffer for this season's losses.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how it works.

Edited April 9 by rob_of_the_rovers

[lraC]

5 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Material uncertainty exists that may cast doubt on the company’s ability to continue as a going concern’

Well, there it is in black and white. 14 years into their destruction and the accounts state that there is a material threat of insolvency.

As I posted yesterday, in response Chaddy's post about what he thinks the summer transfer, spend will be, there is no guarantee that the court hearing is a forgone conclusion.

The statements in the accounts for previous years, made by the owners about them funding the club, can simply no longer be made.

Waggott stated to my face during a meeting with him in November, that since a precedent had already been set, then the funding was going to be agreed in February when the court hearing take place.

As we now all know, it did not take place then, or again in March and I have a suspicious feeling that they are in for a surprise in August too.

We are very close to the edge in my view and panic borrowing in the form of expensive bridging finance form the likes of Crossbaron, makes me even more concerned about the future of the club.

[Mike E]

On 03/04/2024 at 20:08, Armchair supporter supremo said:

He reckons rovers could be bought for 20 million. I think that shows how out of touch with the club(and football in general) he really is😅

Less than that after admin…

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, rob_of_the_rovers said:

Where does this put us for the three year profit and sustainability window?

Edit: I've just taken a look and for the past three years we've had the following losses:

20/21: £6.6m

21/22: £11.2m

22/23: £20.9m

Which comes to £38.7m which is just below the £39m losses allowed for a three year window. Suspiciously close if you ask me. Also leaves us with only a £7m buffer for this season's losses.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how it works.

Unless we spend ‘the Chaddy budget’ you’d think the Wharton sale should assure we’re ok for 21/22 to 23/24 cycle.

There’s also some deductions to be made from the losses for FFP purposes (eg academy costs).

I think our cash flow position is currently a much bigger concern than our ability to meet FFP.

 

 

Edited April 9 by wilsdenrover

[wilsdenrover]

I wonder if any of the £6 million of potential contractual costs became due when Sammie made his international debut.

[Dreams of 1995]

I need to have a proper read, but it's always the same picture

How can our revenue have gone up by 26% but we still lose £20m.......

As always with this lot, it doesn't make sense

[wilsdenrover]

A near half million pounds increase in interest paid on the overdraft/other loans.

Pretty impressive for a club where the owners always pay the bills… 🤔🧐

[Rogerb]

Virtually at the overdraft limit.

[Bohinen1983]

The wages baffle me..   How on earth, with the squad we have, are we paying so much in wages..

I thought we'd off-loaded all of our 'high earners'..  

[RoverDom]

3 hours ago, philipl said:

(perhaps it has been from what it would have been without the Wharton sale).

You'd have thought it would have been dated post-january if they'd amended the wording following the sale of Wharton

[superniko]

6 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Material uncertainty exists that may cast doubt on the company’s ability to continue as a going concern’

Well, there it is in black and white. 14 years into their destruction and the accounts state that there is a material threat of insolvency.

I think a similar paragraph was in Burnley’s latest figures too. 
Not sure it’s anything particularly standing out to previous, and it’ll likely be in most Championship clubs reports as they ‘chase the dream’ of the big money league. 

English Football is just so unsustainable. Can’t be long until it all blows up. 

[Mattyblue]

At least these other clubs have had a chase of said dream before they end up with possible insolvency statements in the accounts.

[wilsdenrover]

2 minutes ago, Bohinen1983 said:

The wages baffle me..   How on earth, with the squad we have, are we paying so much in wages..

I thought we'd off-loaded all of our 'high earners'..  

Those figures include Dack, Kaminski, BBD, and Ayala wages.

[lraC]

4 minutes ago, Bohinen1983 said:

The wages baffle me..   How on earth, with the squad we have, are we paying so much in wages..

I thought we'd off-loaded all of our 'high earners'..  

Don't be too surprised, if we are still paying some of the hangers on from the very beginning.

The super agent and his genius client of a manager, may well have disappeared many years ago, but their wages could very well be still on the books.

I remember some Bolton fans being totally shocked, when the club went into administration and they found out, who was still on the payroll.

[superniko]

We owe £4m in player purchase instalments that could rise to £6m. Who the fuck is that on? We haven’t signed anyone for years. 

[RoverDom]

"Material uncertainty exists that may cast doubt on the company’s ability to continue as a going concern"

No matter the club and no matter the owners, at the point that this is written into the accounts in black and white by independent auditors, the relevant authorities should be stepping in and taking actions against the owners. 

"Profit and sustainability rules" - we're not in profit and we're no longer sustainable. If that's not a breach of the rules then the rules aren't worth the paper they're written on. 

[wilsdenrover]

7 minutes ago, superniko said:

I think a similar paragraph was in Burnley’s latest figures too. 
Not sure it’s anything particularly standing out to previous, and it’ll likely be in most Championship clubs reports as they ‘chase the dream’ of the big money league. 

English Football is just so unsustainable. Can’t be long until it all blows up. 

In the 21/22 accounts the auditors did not identify any material uncertainties regarding us remaining a going concern.

The fact they now have is a significant, unsurprising, and worrying change.

[superniko]

1 hour ago, rob_of_the_rovers said:

Where does this put us for the three year profit and sustainability window?

Edit: I've just taken a look and for the past three years we've had the following losses:

20/21: £6.6m

21/22: £11.2m

22/23: £20.9m

Which comes to £38.7m which is just below the £39m losses allowed for a three year window. Suspiciously close if you ask me. Also leaves us with only a £7m buffer for this season's losses.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how it works.

I guess we can thank Adam Wharton for helping us tick over for another year or two. Next accounts will have wages down and Wharton money so I’d imagine will be below that £7m buffer but who knows with the Venkys cooked books. 
 

The big wigs would have known our situation in January so I guess that explains why we were desperate to get him out the door to the first club who came knocking 

Edited April 9 by superniko

[tomphil]

12 minutes ago, superniko said:

I think a similar paragraph was in Burnley’s latest figures too. 
Not sure it’s anything particularly standing out to previous, and it’ll likely be in most Championship clubs reports as they ‘chase the dream’ of the big money league. 

English Football is just so unsustainable. Can’t be long until it all blows up. 

That's the first time its been in Rovers accounts as far as i'm aware and considering how bad they usually are it's a red flag.

Simply put these owners despite their obvious spare wealth have played Russian roulette with the club because that wealth allows it.  The attitude of i't's ok if we make mistakes, allow nonsense by our mates or just ignore it' because we can afford it has finally caught up with them.

The ONLY reason we haven't ended up in Admin under this lot is that when there hasn't been money forthcoming for whatever reason there have been good players to sell.

The accounts need signing off every year though with parental company guarantee and now that can't be given and if it isn't restored in the next set of accounts there is a big problem.

 

 

[lraC]

30 minutes ago, superniko said:

We owe £4m in player purchase instalments that could rise to £6m. Who the fuck is that on? We haven’t signed anyone for years. 

Could it be Myles and the commission due to his agent too?

If it is, I am going to cry and may do it on TV.

This club stinks to the high heaven.

[MarkBRFC]

48 minutes ago, superniko said:

 English Football is just so unsustainable. Can’t be long until it all blows up. 

Folk have been saying that for over 20 years, The odd club might fall by the wayside but It will never fully blow up.

[tomphil]

Only SKY tv collapsing would cause a reset but even then some other mob will step in ready to give billions to the top 6.

[RoverCanada]

A few notes after a skim amid some travel/work. Might give it a more detailed read later, but aside from the new language on the club as an ongoing concern... the actual numbers aren't surprising with the VLL accounts having already given a sneak peak.

- As others have noted, this is only for 22-23, so this year's budget cuts won't show up yet. Easy to forget now, but with the additions of Szmodics, Hyam, and Brittain, a couple pricey loans, Dack/Ayala/BBD still around, there was generally decent financial support last year (setting aside the January fiasco...). Attendance improved a bit, had quite a few TV games, and the cup runs pushed up both turnover (to our highest since the end of parachute payments) and player costs.

- I wouldn't get agitated about the £5.9m of max potential future add-on payments. That's only up from £5.3m last year and could apply to any player on the roster we picked up for a transfer (Szmodics, Hyam, Brittain, Pickering, Pears, Hedges, Gallagher, Wahlstedt, Telalovic, hell possibly even Academy pick-ups like JRC or Travis!) I'd imagine plenty of those transfers have promotion-related add-ons, for example, which is of course not a financial concern at the moment... May have an add-on for Szmodics' international caps, but that may not actually apply yet due to his caps only being friendlies so far!

- Looks like Edun + Kaminski + Phillips was an initial £3.4m. That won't include add-ons... Stergiakis + Magloire and maybe loan fees and/or other add-ons (I'm not clear how those fit in to the figures!) netted £349k last year.

- While 22-23 wasn't a 'sustainable' loss, with the previous Armstrong + STC sales, and now the Wharton sale, and accounting for other deductions, FFP simply isn't a concern/excuse at the moment...

- Again had high interest income, I think due to the how the STC sale sat in our accounts, but swung back to net interest payments as the cost of the overdraft essentially doubled due to its rate being linked to the BoE rate.

Don't mean to come off as making excuses/taking a rose tinted view, but the numbers for 22-23 are very much before things got dark...

[Rogerb]

3 hours ago, rob_of_the_rovers said:

Where does this put us for the three year profit and sustainability window?

Edit: I've just taken a look and for the past three years we've had the following losses:

20/21: £6.6m

21/22: £11.2m

22/23: £20.9m

Which comes to £38.7m which is just below the £39m losses allowed for a three year window. Suspiciously close if you ask me. Also leaves us with only a £7m buffer for this season's losses.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how it works.

Not to worry Waggott says we will make a profit in this year's accounts.

[rigger]

18 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

Not to worry Waggott says we will make a profit in this year's accounts.

Did Waggot say WE will, or HE will, make a profit.