Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 13/1/2025 - Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[Paul Mellelieu]

29 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

They could always sell to themselves.

They've already done that.

[Mike E]

My god, 14 years ago today. Just fuck off.

[wilsdenrover]

51 minutes ago, Mike E said:

My god, 14 years ago today. Just fuck off.

Played 702

Won.    260

Drawn. 183

Lost.    259 

[SuperBrfc]

Wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but came across this on YouTube. Not seen it mentioned elsewhere on the forum, so thought it's worth sharing. It looks likes Myles has set up his own podcast channel and has had his dad make a few appearances on there over the past couple of months. In this video they talk about Rovers for a bit and the 'hostility' they faced back then, in particular, the difficult time Myles experienced during that period. Something that pricked my ears was between 8:40 - 9:05 when the agent mentions the good relationship he had 'with the THEN owners'. It could just be an innocent choice of wording on his part, and I'm reading too much into it, but it caught my attention as the owners back then are still the same ones today i.e Venky's are still here.

For what it's worth, I think Myles is a decent lad. He comes across as somebody who was just trying to make it as a footballer, but got caught up in the crossfire at the time.

 

Edited November 19 by SuperBrfc

[lraC]

6 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

Wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but came across this on YouTube. Not seen it mentioned elsewhere on the forum, so thought it's worth sharing. It looks likes Myles has set up his own podcast channel and has had his dad make a few appearances on there over the past couple of months. In this video they talk about Rovers for a bit and the 'hostility' they faced back then, in particular, the difficult time Myles experienced during that period. Something that pricked my ears was between 8:40 - 9:05 when the agent mentions the good relationship he had 'with the THEN owners'. It could just be an innocent choice of wording on his part, and I'm reading too much into it, but it caught my attention as the owners back then are still the same ones today i.e Venky's are still here.

For what it's worth, I think Myles is a decent lad. He comes across as somebody who was just trying to make it as a footballer, but got caught up in the crossfire at the time.

 

Maybe the agent has forgotten who the owners were, as no doubt running the club himself and dishing out contracts negotiated by himself, especially one for his own son, can no doubt become a bit confusing. 

[tomphil]

No surprise he had a good relationship with Kentaro.

[Mattyblue]

15,000 average gates, Championship status and a Cat 1 academy despite everything this past 14 years has thrown on the battered shell of BRFC. 

There is still something to salvage and make thrive again for the right people, alas I just can’t ever picture a day when they’ve fucked off.

[tomphil]

If the external debt was about 10 mill or less and Venkys wrote off the money on the balance sheet they are never ever going to get back no matter what then this club is a brilliant buy for someone with funds and a proven plan in line with some similar clubs.

[wilsdenrover]

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

If the external debt was about 10 mill or less and Venkys wrote off the money on the balance sheet they are never ever going to get back no matter what then this club is a brilliant buy for someone with funds and a proven plan in line with some similar clubs.

The creditor amount on the last balance sheet (ignoring Venkys) was around £33 million.

£15 million of this was the bank overdraft. 

[tomphil]

8 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

The creditor amount on the last balance sheet (ignoring Venkys) was around £33 million.

£15 million of this was the bank overdraft. 

And they've said they'll still fund if that gets pulled, not sure how that would be possible.

[wilsdenrover]

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

And they've said they'll still fund if that gets pulled, not sure how that would be possible.

Me neither.

Also, if they could fund if it is pulled, why have the overdraft in the first place? 🤔🤨

Edited November 19 by wilsdenrover

[Paul Mellelieu]

29 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

They could always sell to themselves.

They've already done that.

[philipl]

12 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

The due diligence would be on the business being sold not the whole empire, there have never been any questions raised by any authority about the bona fides of the club. 

That in itself could be problematic.

First question - establish the bona fides of acquisition of full title. Or without the jargon, can you prove what you are selling to me you own, you bought it with your own legitimate funds and you did so without any restrictions in your ability to operate as the owners?

Kentaro might not have acted as simple agents in that process.

If for arguments sake, Kentaro signed a management agreement over Rovers while also holding a football agent license as part of arranging the sale in 2010, then as buyer I would need reassurance from the FA, Football League and Premier League that the ability of Venkys to pass ownership to me was not restricted and any punishment was either waived or restricted to Venkys so that I could make myself immune from the consequences.

 

Edited November 20 by philipl

[lraC]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

That in itself could be problematic.

First question - establish the bona fides of acquisition of full title. Or without the jargon, can you prove what you are selling to me you own, you bought it with your own legitimate funds and you did so without any restrictions in your ability to operate as the owners?

Kentaro might not have acted as simple agents in that process.

If for arguments sake, Kentaro signed a management agreement over Rovers while also holding a football agent license as part of arranging the sale in 2010, then as buyer I would need reassurance from the FA, Football League and Premier League that the ability of Venkys to pass ownership to me was not restricted and any punishment was either waived or restricted to Venkys so that I could make myself immune from the consequences.

 

It’s always been my opinion, that the reason for not selling the club, is fear of something coming out that would cause some severe problems.

Some people have suggested that their is no “conspiracy theory” and perhaps that’s correct, but I cannot see any other reason for holding on to us, despite all that’s gone on in the past and is currently going on. It simply beggars belief now. 

[Blue blood]

On 18/11/2024 at 17:00, Paul Mellelieu said:

You're no economist.

Lol, quick! 

You're right though, it doesn't need you to be an economist it's plain common sense. 

Are you really suggesting that halving our supporter base is good for the long term viability for the club or the town businesses? Are you really saying an extra 12k match day supporters wouldn't benefit the town or club? 

You may say it's peanuts compared to who works for the club but what happens at the next round of downsizing or when we inevitably fall into league 1? What happens in 20 years time when we have a further reduced fanbase? Bar Wharton all the players sold to keep the lights on or get the goals to keep us up cost money - Armstrong, Sami, Brereton. What's going to happen now the production line is slowing? 

If you can't see the downward trend of the club and the impact that has on people and businesses I'm not going to convince you. But it seems pretty plain to see. 

[47er]

On 19/11/2024 at 18:50, Paul Mellelieu said:

I don't think admin is the only eventuality, and we shouldn't be indifferent, never mind in favour of, a situation that could lead to the club's demise, cause significant to local suppliers and businesses, and leave many local people without jobs.  

Nobody is indifferent. it will come anyway if we carry on like this.

[Crimpshrine]

On 19/11/2024 at 07:50, Paul Mellelieu said:

I don't think admin is the only eventuality, and we shouldn't be indifferent, never mind in favour of, a situation that could lead to the club's demise, cause significant to local suppliers and businesses, and leave many local people without jobs.  

Isn't the whole point of administration to save jobs and keep a business alive ? If the club can't pay their bills in the near future due to cashflow problems but the general structure of the club is sound and the potential to recover is evident, then administration could well turn everything around. There are some very positive examples - Crystal Palace have been through it twice ! 

[Forever Blue]

On 18/11/2024 at 19:21, Crimpshrine said:

What I always said was that the court hearing that allowed them to send money in November 2023 did not create a ruling that they could send any further money. That was confirmed by Suhail. However, something happened in July which, according to Suhail, changed the situation. I don't know for certain what this 'something' was and have yet to see any evidence as to what it was. 

Prior to July, they could not send any money without going back to court. If you were saying they could before July then I don't think that was correct. If you were saying it only after July, please explain what happened.

Yea, and you were told repeatedly that something had changed, hence the club informing us that there was no future impediment. This happened earlier than July. You refused to believe it, but produced no evidence to the contrary. 
 

You’ve now decided to believe Pasha, who is a prominent figure in the club you refused to believe a few months ago. 
 

 Very odd.

[tomphil]

25 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Isn't the whole point of administration to save jobs and keep a business alive ? If the club can't pay their bills in the near future due to cashflow problems but the general structure of the club is sound and the potential to recover is evident, then administration could well turn everything around. There are some very positive examples - Crystal Palace have been through it twice ! 

Iv'e tried to explain that several times over but he doesn't want to know it's easier to cry about doom that asses the situation using other examples.

The only one some want to ever flag up is Bury for some bizarre reason yet i'd say another decade of this and we are more likely to end up like them if this ownership continues and something finally gives.

The general idea amongst a lot of still attending fans seems to be 'ah well they keep chucking in 20 mill and paying the bills so one day we'll get lucky'.

Well those days are gone now so what next ?

 

[Forever Blue]

The problem with administration is that we’d probably have to sell the training ground we don’t own! But at least we’ll be able to live on the Ewood Barrett’s Estate. I’ve got my name down for the house that will be on the BBE penalty spot. 

[Crimpshrine]

12 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

Yea, and you were told repeatedly that something had changed, hence the club informing us that there was no future impediment. This happened earlier than July. You refused to believe it, but produced no evidence to the contrary. 
 

You’ve now decided to believe Pasha, who is a prominent figure in the club you refused to believe a few months ago. 
 

 Very odd.

What is odd ? 

My beliefs are based on the reports from the court hearings that did not allow for future funds to be sent.

How do you know something happened before July ? Do you know more than the COO of Blackburn Rovers ? I am obviously more likely to believe him than you - don't you think ?

So, putting all that to one side, please inform me what happened before July, how did you know about it and where can I find the evidence?

Thanks

[Forever Blue]

6 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

What is odd ? 

My beliefs are based on the reports from the court hearings that did not allow for future funds to be sent.

How do you know something happened before July ? Do you know more than the COO of Blackburn Rovers ? I am obviously more likely to believe him than you - don't you think ?

So, putting all that to one side, please inform me what happened before July, how did you know about it and where can I find the evidence?

Thanks

It’s odd you didn’t believe the club, but now you believe the club. I couldn’t have been any clearer🤷‍♂️

[Crimpshrine]

5 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

It’s odd you didn’t believe the club, but now you believe the club. I couldn’t have been any clearer🤷‍♂️

But you aren't able to tell me what happened or when. You just swallowed Waggott's 'no impediment' statements. I didn't and still don't. 

It's hard to know what believe because nobody - including you - can provide any evidence.  I tried to get to the truth by asking Suhail but you don't believe what he told me about the July date. So it appears you know more than he does - fair enough, I'd love to hear your explanation. 

[lraC]

15 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

What is odd ? 

My beliefs are based on the reports from the court hearings that did not allow for future funds to be sent.

How do you know something happened before July ? Do you know more than the COO of Blackburn Rovers ? I am obviously more likely to believe him than you - don't you think ?

So, putting all that to one side, please inform me what happened before July, how did you know about it and where can I find the evidence?

Thanks

So far as I am aware, there is still a requirement for a no objection certificate to be issued, in order for funds to be sent. Unless that has changed, then there seems to be a problem sending funds and each time the court hearing does not proceed, we become closer to running out of money.

Below is an extract from the court document form November 2023.

5. The Petitioner made an application dated 17.01.2023 under Rule 10 of 2022 Rules seeking a No-Objection for remittance for financial commitments to its WOS for the year 2023-24 which has been rejected vide an Order dated 06.03.2023 passed by the Enforcement Directorate, which is the subject matter of the instant writ petition.

[Forever Blue]

2 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

But you aren't able to tell me what happened or when. You just swallowed Waggott's 'no impediment' statements. I didn't and still don't. 

It's hard to know what believe because nobody - including you - can provide any evidence.  I tried to get to the truth by asking Suhail but you don't believe what he told me about the July date. So it appears you know more than he does - fair enough, I'd love to hear your explanation. 

But you’re swallowing your mate Pasha’s statements 🤣 

 

Can you see the problem?

Edited November 20 by Forever Blue