That *was* the January Window

[davulsukur]

54 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Since the day they sacked Allardyce and appointed Kean it has always been not what you know but who you know down there.

See also Coyle over Warnock and the retention of certain people whilst those with ambition who won't put up with such nonsense don't last long.

When you prioritise being 'nice' and telling you what you want to hear over getting the best people for the job decline is inevitable.

Oh i agree, I just find it strange that they seem to be on never ending contracts as well. The Venkys way is to run contracts down.

How much longer do they have on their current ones?

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Eh? You suggested loaning Hedges first instead of signing him permanently. If we hadn't signed him to the pre-contract (ie permanently), why would they loan him to us when his contract is nearly done and they wanted to use him? And with the pre-contract signed, why would they loan him to us for a fee any different to the one they insisted on? With 6 months left on a contract, a club is going to insist on roughly the same fee whether it's for a 6 month loan or a permanent, whether or not you've signed a pre-contract. That fee will be a bit less when the precontract is signed, because the selling club know you're definitely getting him in the summer, but there'll still be no real difference between the loan or perm, because those two things are essentially the same thing to the selling club at that stage.

Markanday we couldn't sign a pre-contract with, so we had less power in that situation. If I remember rightly, Spurs had offered him a new deal too, which means with his age it would have gone to tribunal.

You can argue that we shouldn't have signed Hedges if you like, and there's a very good argument that we should have just stuck with the freebie given how little we used him at first, but it's entirely irrational to expect we could have loaned him for less than we paid, because that would essentially be the same deal. Markanday wasn't going to be coming on loan for less than we paid either, unless he signed his Spurs deal. We could have ran the gambit of the tribunal though, may have been less may have been more, and then potentially seen his wage demands go up if other clubs were interested, or down if he'd had a poor 6 months in Spurs u21s.

Ask yourself if you were in those clubs' positions why you would agree to what you're suggesting. It can only work that way when the club wants rid and sees the player having no market value, in which case they're happy to let them go for nowt and a loan first can work for all parties (or rather to the buying club, it's all the same).

Look Mr Pedantic it doesn't really matter does it and i stand by my point as try before you buy means we probably wouldn't have doffed out a 3 or 4 year contract on Markandy plus fee plus add ons.

Meaning that if he goes for nothing after that he's cost us about 1.5 million and i doubt very much Spurs are charging 500k loan for a kid they are going to let go anyway. Nor would it be costing rovers  over 10 grand a week to loan that kid for 4 months.

Do we really need to be trying to point score on this when all the other stuff is going on ?

If you want Broughton on the evidence so far to be running about throwing fees of 500k to 1 million on young players with no pedigree at this level on 4 yr contracts then lets see if it works.  All so we can pretend it's cheaper than loaning similar or better pedigree players then fine.

I don't.

Edited January 2 by tomphil

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, LDRover said:

The retention of these 2 through various regime changes has always felt iffy to me.

I mean, look at the state of Stig of the dump Lowe, he wouldn't look out of place in a shop doorway yet he continues in employment at Ewood overseeing year after year of decline.

He just looks like a guy who should be sat in Wetherspoons all day refilling his cup of £1.50 coffee whilst gazing out the window at the same old passing world everyday.

 

[BankEnd Rover]

We need tricky wingers with pace…and a striker.

 

Edited January 2 by BankEnd Rover

[Moptop1]

3 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

We need tricky wingers with pace.

 

We need money for that sort of player(s). We don’t have money. 

[bluebruce]

40 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Look Mr Pedantic it doesn't really matter does it and i stand by my point as try before you buy means we probably wouldn't have doffed out a 3 or 4 year contract on Markandy plus fee plus add ons.

Meaning that if he goes for nothing after that he's cost us about 1.5 million and i doubt very much Spurs are charging 500k loan for a kid they are going to let go anyway. Nor would it be costing rovers  over 10 grand a week to loan that kid for 4 months.

Do we really need to be trying to point score on this when all the other stuff is going on ?

If you want Broughton on the evidence so far to be running about throwing fees of 500k to 1 million on young players with no pedigree at this level on 4 yr contracts then lets see if it works.  All so we can pretend it's cheaper than loaning similar or better pedigree players then fine.

I don't.

It's not pedantic to point out that your argument had a massive gaping hole in it. You can stand by your point, it won't make it make any more sense. I'm sorry you don't like that, and it's a shame you think it was point scoring.

I was never making a point that I want Broughton to throw 500k to 1 mill fees on young players with no pedigree at this level. There's nothing wrong in making bigger use of the loan market than we have this season, although it does of course need to be balanced with actually procuring assets too.

[wilsdenrover]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes no problem. I sent GB and JDT my CV now. I tell them how my FM experience shows why I should be appoint🤣

If you send it to SW he’d probably consider that enough to give you the job 😁

[Mattyblue]

Cc in Gregg too making sure you mention ‘R’ and ‘Goodhart’s law’ and you’d be a shoe in.

[tomphil]

29 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

It's not pedantic to point out that your argument had a massive gaping hole in it. You can stand by your point, it won't make it make any more sense. I'm sorry you don't like that, and it's a shame you think it was point scoring.

I was never making a point that I want Broughton to throw 500k to 1 mill fees on young players with no pedigree at this level. There's nothing wrong in making bigger use of the loan market than we have this season, although it does of course need to be balanced with actually procuring assets too.

The only gaping hole in it is your assumption that somehow loaning a kid on a few grand a week for 4 months is somehow cheaper than the 1.5 million he is likely to end up costing us for diddly squat return.

It's likely that any talk of a spurs contract was just so they could get us to jump there and then and squeeze money out of the naive Rovers set up.  It has all the hallmarks of an agent pal of someone doing a number on easy pray when a simple loan with a view to buy should have told us his potential is that of a lower level player.

And it would have cost about 100 grand in wages or we walk away.

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, Mercer said:

When will the penny drop about Benson?

He has no professional football experience as a player.  He has not lived or breathed the work of a goalie.  He has nothing in the memory bank about the trials and tribulations of a goalie.  Just how on earth can you coach a Championship goalie if you have not been through the ringer yourself?  As for being our set piece 'guru', it is the height of absurdity

The same Ben Benson that was highly praise by Kaminski when he left. So maybe we know very little about the coaching he does on a daily coach. 

 

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

He pointed at himself 

Andrews has been coaching with Ireland under 21's and he knows Chris Wilder very well

[simongarnerisgod]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

The same Ben Benson that was highly praise by Kaminski when he left. So maybe we know very little about the coaching he does on a daily coach. 

tk only praised him cos benson babysat while thomas and mrs k fancied getting jiggy

[whalleyrover]

5 hours ago, Dolly blue said:

Why do goalkeepers develop / blossom once they have left Ewood Park ?
Christian Walton .. Brighton on loan at Ipswich                                                                         
Jason Steele ..Brighton    
Andy Fisher …Swansea ….all these looked very , very poor for us ..but they get  proper   coaching and bingo ..our current 2 make them look like Gordon Banks 

David Raya and Thomas Kaminski had some extremely iffy moments between our sticks ….look at them now ! Both given away, not sold !

The goalkeeping coaching at Ewood is, at best , semi pro level ( apologies to semi pro clubs)

Our fitness training / coaching looks like it doesn’t work …and hasn’t for  along time    
. We repeatedly struggle get players off the treatment table….as much wrong off the pitch as on it .
I know , from very reliable sources , just how much more professional the setup is at Bolton Wanderers …and didn’t they go into liquidation ? ..and do they get gates of 18, 000 plus each week ?                                                                                            

We’re tin pot from top to bottom …I didn’t use my season ticket on Monday ….the match day experience is just too miserable to witness… bloody dark days!

 

Please explain why this manager and previous others have had to pùt up with Lowe and Benson within the set up!

Proper clubs get rid of managers and their coaching staff and allow a new manager to bring in his own people.

UTTER SHAMBLES, VENKYS OUT

[whalleyrover]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

Since the day they sacked Allardyce and appointed Kean it has always been not what you know but who you know down there.

See also Coyle over Warnock and the retention of certain people whilst those with ambition who won't put up with such nonsense don't last long.

When you prioritise being 'nice' and telling you what you want to hear over getting the best people for the job decline is inevitable.

How true, time our fans smelt the coffee. VENKYS, WAGGOTT AND CO FECK OFF

[chaddyrovers]

16 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

tk only praised him cos benson babysat while thomas and mrs k fancied getting jiggy

Pointless reply

[Mercer]

46 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The same Ben Benson that was highly praise by Kaminski when he left. So maybe we know very little about the coaching he does on a daily coach. 

 

The same Ben Benson who Raya, based on what I saw in pre match and half time routines, had little respect for and needed proper coaching to further his development, the same Ben Benson who has, seemingly, reduced Leo to a goalkeeping wreck and the same Ben Benson who, presumably, 'signed-off' on the acquistions of Walton, Pears and Leo - arguably, 3 of the worse goalies to don the Rovers' number one shirt.  Whatever coaching he does on a daily basis has certainly not helped Leo!!!

Liverpool have Taffarel, a Brazilian World Cup winning goalie, on their goalkeeping staff whilst we have Benson from Carlisle's Community Department who has never played professional football.  Tell me, if you were a goalie, which of Taffarel or Benson would you most respect, most likely listen to and most likely learn from !?  It aint rocket science.

Wake up and smell the coffee Chaddy.

Edited January 2 by Mercer

[tomphil]

I don't think Leos issues are anything to do with Ben Benson the player has only been here 2 mins and although has good reflexes he's always looked like a schoolboy flapping at crosses etc.

He doesn't know the Championship/British more physical football style and is clearly struggling to adapt and his nerves are probably shredded.

I think playing in front of bigger noisier crowds and raucous away support is a bit of a problem for him as well, he looked like he was visibly unnerved in front of those PNE and Leeds followings. 

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

I don't think Leos issues are anything to do with Ben Benson the player has only been here 2 mins and although has good reflexes he's always looked like a schoolboy flapping at crosses etc.

He doesn't know the Championship/British more physical football style and is clearly struggling to adapt and his nerves are probably shredded.

I think playing in front of bigger noisier crowds and raucous away support is a bit of a problem for him as well, he looked like he was visibly unnerved in front of those PNE and Leeds followings. 

A good coach should inspire confidence in  players, make them believe they can 'walk on water' and develop their all round game including technical abilities. 

If Leo's 'nerves are shredded' and he still looks like 'a schoolboy flapping at crosses' after 15 games or so on the spin then just what the feck is Benson doing!?

Edited January 3 by Mercer

[simongarnerisgod]

lets face it,he`s a dud,there is`nt a club in the whole world who has`nt signed a bad player in their time so we should put it down to "this ones a failure" move on and get a replacement keeper,ironically rotherhams keeper is swedish,has one cap,cost nothing and looked very steady yesterday,if the millers go down we should be all over him for next season

[Paul Mellelieu]

27 minutes ago, Mercer said:

The same Ben Benson who Raya, based on what I saw in pre match and half time routines, had little respect for and needed proper coaching to further his development, the same Ben Benson who has, seemingly, reduced Leo to a goalkeeping wreck and the same Ben Benson who, presumably, 'signed-off' on the acquistions of Walton, Pears and Leo - arguably, 3 of the worse goalies to don the Rovers' number one shirt.  Whatever coaching he does on a daily basis has certainly not helped Leo!!!

Liverpool have Taffarel, a Brazilian World Cup winning goalie, on their goalkeeping staff whilst we have Benson from Carlisle's Community Department who has never played professional football.  Tell me, if you were a goalie, which of Taffarel or Benson would you most respect, most likely listen to and most likely learn from !?  It aint rocket science.

Wake up and smell the coffee Chaddy.

This is bordering on an obsession.

[SuperBrfc]

36 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The same Ben Benson that was highly praise by Kaminski when he left. So maybe we know very little about the coaching he does on a daily coach. 

Chaddy, that praise might be genuine but there could also be an alternative explanation. Think about how that Kaminski interview might have come about for a moment.

Is it not possible that after viewing this forum and seeing Benson getting panned, somebody has thought we need to get some good PR out about our goalkeeper coach? After all, Benson is obviously a key member having survived allsorts of upheaval at the club.

What a stunning way it would be to silence the critics than with praise from a professional. That'll show 'em. The pro's know best, apparently. Isn't that the exact angle that the itk's and plants like to use against us 'no nowts' on here and elsewhere? 'The pro's know better than you'.

'Kaminski has made you no nowts look stupid. Ha'. This is what was being said by some fans online, here and elsewhere after the interview. I would say that was 'job done' in terms of PR. 

I really want to add how I think this could have happened, as this is where it is likely to click with some, but it's better I don't. The clues are out there though.

I wouldn't believe everything I hear from players, Chaddy. There's a lot of PR bullshit that goes on in football.

If Benson was such a fantastic goalkeeping coach, why is nobody trying to take him off us?

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Mercer said:

A good coach should inspire confidence in  players, make them believe they can 'walk and water' and develop their all round game including technical abilities. 

If Leo's 'nerves are shredded' and he still looks like 'a schoolboy flapping at crosses' after 15 games or so on the spin then just what the feck is Benson doing!?

I'd be more likely to say wtf are we doing paying 800k for him and expecting him to back up or take over from a lad who is barely out of his own novice pants.

The best thing any keeper dept can have at this level is an experienced number one to learn the ropes from.

The scouting of this kid leaves a lot to be desired but like i said he might have looked a great prospect in a mostly dishwater weak league and hardly any fans in tiny stadiums. Then he comes here and looks like a rabbit in the headlights in the full glare of one of the toughest leagues in the world.

It happens even to good prospects and unfortunately its happened here.

[chaddyrovers]

23 minutes ago, Mercer said:

The same Ben Benson who Raya, based on what I saw in pre match and half time routines, had little respect for and needed proper coaching to further his development, the same Ben Benson who has, seemingly, reduced Leo to a goalkeeping wreck and the same Ben Benson who, presumably, 'signed-off' on the acquistions of Walton, Pears and Leo - arguably, 3 of the worse goalies to don the Rovers' number one shirt.  Whatever coaching he does on a daily basis has certainly not helped Leo!!!

Unfair and unnecessary criticism of Ben Benson here. More pointless Ben Benson bashing

 

23 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Liverpool have Taffarel, a Brazilian World Cup winning goalie, on their goalkeeping staff whilst we have Benson from Carlisle's Community Department who has never played professional football.  Tell me, if you were a goalie, which of Taffarel or Benson would you most respect, most likely listen to and most likely learn from !?  It aint rocket science.

John Achterberg is in charge of Liverpool keeping department 

Plus we aren't Liverpool size of club either or in the premiership 

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

This is bordering on an obsession.

Deffo correct here

[simongarnerisgod]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

John Achterberg is in charge of Liverpool keeping department 

yes,john achterberg who has played professional football as a goalkeeper to a high standard,compared to benson who played school football in carlisle then learnt how to coach from a textbook,who would you take inspiration from,someone with over 400 appearances or someone who has never even caught a football

[Dreams of 1995]

Yeah and it just doesn't make sense either

Raya developed into a PL goalkeeper. Brentford knew what he was. It was Tony that didn't.

Tommy K came in from Gent, was established enough, but again after spending a few years under Rovers' coaching went on to the Premier League

I actually think Pears has improved too. His earlier performances for Rovers were terrible to say the least. Up until his injury he showed a big improvement

I feel like Mercer's problem with Benson is unfounded. Not one other Rovers fan I know has told me they saw Raya act disrespectfully towards Benson. Does Mercer see what nobody else does? 😕