That *was* the January Window

[Atko's Engine]

You can never measure the success of a transfer window the day after it's closed. All the new arrivals deserve the opportunity to show what they can do, they ought not to be judged on the basis of previous deals that came good or went sour, or in the context of when / how they were signed. We've certainly got numbers in (4 first team squad members out, 8 in is it?), experience & a bit of no-nonesense clout, all of which we have been in dire need of these last 2 months, so amen to that at least.

None of us know exactly what the position is re finances; is it true that Wharton needed to be sold to keep the lights on for 6 months (sounds plausible, albeit inexcusable in the grander scheme of things) or rather is it true that the AW deal was genuinely in the balance until so late in the day that it was impossible to spend the money wisely in 6 hours (also equally plausible)? 

Who knows. Taking a step back, losing AW itself is something we all knew would happen & £18m plus is too much to ignore, especially given the benefit of hindsight in not selling BBD, Rothwell, Lenihan, etc when the chances were there, and missing out on big money for Dack due to unlucky injury. Hopefully he succeeds & gets a bigger move & we get further add ons. What galls most is how soon it's happened in his development, but even more than that is that it's Palace he's gone to,  a very average club all things considered. Such is where our esteemed owners have positioned us in the food chain.

For those criticising GB, I do feel that's unfairly harsh. It's nigh on impossible to focus on well organised, proper long term recruitment if the budgetary goalposts shift so significantly (like they did in summer, like they probably did last week when the High Court hearing - which the club is seemingly confident will go Venkys' way - was unexpectedly delayed, and like they seemingly did this week with it taking 4 days to complete the AW transfer).

One thing that is inescapable is that there has been no true ambition shown by Venkys in all their tenure. There've been words said, platitudes given, even no shortage of money spent (just very badly to cover theur own mistakes), but no real plan that has been devised & followed through cohesively, hence lurching from one window to the next without any real progress.

That's on them and only them. Until they go it'll be more of the same I'm afraid. Sad but true.

Edited February 2 by Atko's Engine

[matt83]

26 minutes ago, superniko said:

Should be expected by now, but I’m pretty much speechless. £22m starlet gone and replaced with 6 month loan or retiree deals. 

It’s just full of this shite……outside chance of playoffs, yeah 250/1 lads - fill your boots

 

Like a form of Stockholm syndrome. My mate is overly positive about rovers and everyone will be good and I’m very negative. My stock answer to almost every signing (particularly under the egg) is they’ll be rubbish. His reply now is yeah but Szmodics. Without knowing who the hell he was I looked at a guy not playing in Peterborough’s side, the fact we signed him and gave my usual stock answer of he’ll be rubbish. I was wrong. However, playing the percentages I’m right maybe 80% of the time.

Just thinking the jdt/egg era. Can’t remember them all but Szmodics is a very good player (arguably a Mowbray signing but I’ll give him them). Whalstead, siggy, tronstad, telavic, Moran, markanday, Thomas, Hirst, mola, brown that zee fuck character are all looking like iffy signings. Maybe a couple of those might hit the lofty heights of average certainly not good. Britain/hyam have both been very good and both been very shit. Couldn’t really say definitely they fall into either category so average. 

Honestly no one would be happier than me if in the summer he says you said Atari, chrisene, koumetio, McGuire, o’riodran and mcfazean would be a bag of shit but every one was immense. Fantastic but I’ll play the percentages again and say they’ll be rubbish. 

[AllRoverAsia]

9 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

With money on the table we should have let him go to Ipswich. He had a good game against Wrexham by his standards but just doesn't offer enough at Championship level and I don't see the point in keep picking him with this new US lad on the books. Did Leonard go out on loan anywhere? He certainly needs to because he's another who struggles in the Championship

We don't know yet if McGuire will be Championship level.

Any fee for Gally would not have been reinvested in players.

We now have 2 "main" strikers with Leonard as back up.

I have never been convinced by Gally but for the rest of this season at least I'm ok with him being with us.

Other observations:

We got a fee for Ennis. Bloody amazing even though it will be disappeared already.

How did we get away with the McGuire switch to a loan. A con in plain sight.

Edited February 2 by AllRoverAsia

[JBiz]

14 minutes ago, DE. said:

Considering the club has in many respects been in consistent decline for the past 13 years, and has at best stagnated in other areas, I'm not really sure how the supposed 'extreme negativity' or pessimism of the wider forum is asynchronous with reality. I can understand wanting to take positives and if you'd rather focus on that then the bigger picture then sure, go for it, but I struggle to understand the need to have outbursts against a supposedly negative outlook that has ultimately been almost always proven right for over a decade. 

You guys got what you wanted, an echo chamber and a place to vent.

The days of “the bigger picture” being on BRFCS are long gone in my opinion.

Also, can you point me to the evidence of asset stripping and a financial black hole where our money dissapears? For over a decade,  nobody has ever proven that, yet it’s all over every page 

Edited February 2 by JBiz

[Mattyblue]

5 minutes ago, jny said:

The majority seem to think that ANYONE expressing even slight disapproval of the club's running is down to that person actively hating the club and that if we just "get behind the team" and "stop the moaning" and let everything continue as it is, it'll all be fine.

They don't seem to realise that criticism and drumming up support for protest is pretty much the only recourse we as long-paying (and suffering) supporters have to actually influence how the club is run.

Anyway, welcome to Blackburn, East Lancashire... 🤪

Just as I thought the tide that was just starting to turn, it has abated again due to a few frees and loans arriving on deadline day, but it’s ‘bodies’. ‘FFP’, ‘crap fans’, ‘spoilt’, ‘negative’.

They play the fanbase like a fiddle.

Edited February 2 by Mattyblue

[SuperBrfc]

2 hours ago, Jimmy612 said:

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but I think this transfer window, and the current mood at the club draws pretty strong parallels to the Lambert era, obviously approaching the Coyle farce. 

That season we'd sold Cairney and Gestede, followed by Rhodes in the January window - total sum £20 - £25m.  We'd signed the following;

Doneil Henry	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/379_1464675286.png?lm=1464675287	West Ham	loan transfer
Simeon Jackson	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/349.png?lm=1574162298	Barnsley FC	free transfer
Danny Graham	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/289.png?lm=1485645633	Sunderland	loan transfer
Elliott Ward	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/989.png?lm=1457991811	Bournemouth	free transfer
Tony Watt	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/358.png?lm=1448178743	Charlton	loan transfer
Hope Akpan	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/1032.png?lm=1457723329	Reading	free transfer
Tom Lawrence	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/1003.png?lm=1472229265	Leicester	loan transfer
Fodé Koita	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/1162_1465134668.png?lm=1465134668	SM Caen	free transfer
Nathan Delfouneso	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/1181.png?lm=1407655321	Blackpool	free transfer
Danny Guthrie	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/1032.png?lm=1457723329	Reading	free transfer
Elliott Bennett	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/1123_1658217232.png?lm=1658217233	Norwich	?
Jordi Gómez	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/289.png?lm=1485645633	Sunderland	loan transfer
Matt Grimes	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/2288_1658400144.png?lm=1658400145	Swansea	loan transfer
Modou Barrow	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/wappen/tiny/2288_1658400144.png?lm=1658400145	Swansea	loan transfer

 £0.00 spent. 

This season, £25m brought in with Kami, Phillips and Wharton gone.  A chipping away, obvious decline of the squad with assets being flogged to stop the ship from sinking.  The only slight difference this time is that one of our prized assets (BBD) walked away for sweet FA.  They're being replaced by short-sighted, no strategy loans and freebie has-beens. 

JDT, just like Lambert will be disillusioned, sold a cock and bull story that the club has serious aspirations. 

No surprise when he jumps ship this summer and we're left scrabbling around looking for a manager who will take a chance on this complete circus. 

Yeah, that is exactly what it looks and feels like. History appears to be repeating itself. We are currently at the Lambert stage, where a manager who arrived here under the illusion that the end goal was to go up and that he would be backed with funds from player sales, has realised he has been sold a dud. It didn't take Lambert long to work that out after the money from the sales of Rhodes and others disappeared and he had to make do with frees and loans. Ditto JDT and the situation now.

It seems very unlikely that JDT will be here beyond the summer. The squad is going to need massively rebuilding (again) but there is no appetite or money for that from the top. Kicking the can down the road over and over is more their thing. "We will lease players". The Wharton money? "Scott is still here, so we are confused by your question".

Promotion won't be on the agenda either (when has it ever?) as is obvious from Swag's aim being to avoid relegation, so is JDT sticking around for more of this? I doubt it.

Got to hope that the 'next Coyle' doesn't arrive. An agency friendly desperado coming in, who can't believe he is here, would likely replicate what Coyle did and send us down. I know some may argue that the DOF being here should prevent this, and they could be right, but there have already been indications of GB lining up deals in good faith only for something to happen above him leading to a change in plan. I've often shared the opinion that the shortlist for our next manager will be telling and who we actually appoint, possibly even more so.

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, JBiz said:

You guys got what you wanted, an echo chamber and a place to vent.

The days of “the bigger picture” being on BRFCS are long gone in my opinion.

Also, can you point me to the evidence of asset stripping and a financial black hole where our money dissapears? For over a decade,  nobody has ever proven that, yet it’s all over every page 

You say this every time you leave and then end up coming back, venting and departing again for a few months. If it's getting you this wound up I would just sack it off entirely. 

Pessimistic/realistic view aligning with general direction of the club is obviously not the same as 'every extreme negative comment posted is true'. 

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, DE. said:

You say this every time you leave and then end up coming back, venting and departing again for a few months. If it's getting you this wound up I would just sack it off entirely. 

Pessimistic/realistic view aligning with general direction of the club is obviously not the same as 'every extreme negative comment posted is true'. 

It is odd as the site is actually rather calm post window.

[DE.]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

It is odd as the site is actually rather calm post window.

The site is pretty much always calm save for a few brief spikes here and there. Anyone who thinks this place is some cauldron of extreme negativity should try visiting literally any other football forum save for RAWK. 

[Bronzed A Donis]

3 minutes ago, JBiz said:

You guys got what you wanted, an echo chamber and a place to vent.

The days of “the bigger picture” being on BRFCS are long gone in my opinion.

Also, can you point me to the evidence of asset stripping and a financial black hole where our money dissapears? For over a decade,  nobody has ever proven that, yet it’s all over every page 

Not true though is it. You appear to be the only person worked up at a difference in outlook. I saw a post of yours earlier and by and large agreed with a decent chunk of it. I just have a different take on some things, no problem.

In terms of a black hole. If you excuse the terminology,  I think by and large that refers to the significant losses every year. The fact that it is a financial black hole,  we need to continue to find money to fill it. Yes these are operating costs and need to be paid , so a reference to this would be,  Venkys can't send over money ergo any money we can raise goes to pay/service our losses, creditor's etc. Which I think we can all agree falls on the owners.

Regarding asset stripping that's a libellous term. However , I think objectively if you sell your training ground separating it from the club and then borrow against it with a third party , you have what appears to be a use of assets to ahem...service the black hole.

If you have an alternative perspective, please enlighten me , because on basic terms that is my view of how we are run.

[Mattyblue]

It’s just how forums are, from Man Utd’s to a non league club. Go and find a ‘balanced’ one anywhere. RAWK is also skewed as ‘negativity’ towards any aspect of LFC is banned.

Amuses me how folk are expecting a genteel, balanced chat over an anonymous message board.

Edited February 2 by Mattyblue

[LDRover]

1 hour ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

I think we're trying to reconstruct some sort of hybrid Coventry City team. Hyam, McFadzean, Fleck all played for them. Next we will get Strachan as manager should JDT resign, and sign Cyrus Christie, Jordan Shipley and Tyler Walker.

Heard the egg made late calls to Keith Houchen's agent and tried to exhume Cyrille Regis all to no avail.

[Upside Down]

11 minutes ago, Bronzed A Donis said:

Not true though is it. You appear to be the only person worked up at a difference in outlook. I saw a post of yours earlier and by and large agreed with a decent chunk of it. I just have a different take on some things, no problem.

In terms of a black hole. If you excuse the terminology,  I think by and large that refers to the significant losses every year. The fact that it is a financial black hole,  we need to continue to find money to fill it. Yes these are operating costs and need to be paid , so a reference to this would be,  Venkys can't send over money ergo any money we can raise goes to pay/service our losses, creditor's etc. Which I think we can all agree falls on the owners.

Regarding asset stripping that's a libellous term. However , I think objectively if you sell your training ground separating it from the club and then borrow against it with a third party , you have what appears to be a use of assets to ahem...service the black hole.

If you have an alternative perspective, please enlighten me , because on basic terms that is my view of how we are run.

That is literally what is happening here.

I only get really pissed off by the epsilon element that claim to be fans of this club denying reality.

"Who will pay the 20 million a year?"

How about asking WHY we lose 20 million a year.

I think this is probably the most balanced message board you'll find for any club.

It's funny how discussion about the actual reality of the situation we're in and have been in since we were infected with the venkys virus is seen as 'negativity'. What the fuck else are we supposed to talk about?

Again, maybe you should be asking questions yourself instead of lambasting others for actually giving a fuck.

That last sentence isn't aimed at you BTW mr Donnis.

Edited February 2 by Upside Down

[B16Rover]

If someone with a bit of time and financial awareness could make a laymans infographics of 

 

Blackburn Player sales last 10 years 

Blackburn accounts headlines last 10 years 

Blackburn debt and what it means 

Vs Bristol city, PNE or a.nother club 

 

As well as one showing actions derby/bolton took before plummeting

 

Actions and impacts of Bolton's fan revival 

 

It'd go some way imo 

[Mattyblue]

2 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I only get really pissed off by the epsilon element that claim to be fans of this club denying reality.

"Who will pay the 20 million a year?"

How about asking WHY we lose 20 million a year.

Saw someone on Facebook say ‘well we only have 11,000 crowds how can we compete?’, like that’s a fait accompli.

Maybe there’s something the owners of the execs they employ could do about that?

[Parsonblue]

A disappointing but wholly predictable window.  I've tried to see how loans and short term contracts fit the supposed 'Brentford' model but can't.  The lad from Crewe could be a sound investment long term and that's a plus.  Same with the lad from America.  He could work out very well but if he doesn't we can let him return to the States.  The Liverpool lad I really don't understand.  Having signed McFadzean and the lad from Crewe I can't see how Koumetio fits in.  Seems all he does is block the pathway for Atcheson and Gamble who have been on the bench most of the season.

McFadzean and Fleck provide experience but neither has played much football in recent months and Fleck has spent much of the season on the injured list.  From what I've seen of the lad from Brighton, with the Under-21's, I'm still not convinced of the need to bring him in ahead of our own youngsters. 

Far from the Brentford model, this seems to be closer to the Accrington model of filling your squad with loan players to boost numbers.

I accept that the Wharton money will go on running costs but it begs the question what do we do in summer? There isn't another Wharton coming through who we can sell.

I doubt we will get dragged into a relegation battle this season but what happens next season?  Loaned players and those out of contract will depart - leaving us with another major rebuild.  

[JHRover]

The McGuire permanent fee is obviously not being paid, we've agreed to a ridulously high fee option to get him on loan for the time being.

There is no way on this earth that as a Championship or League One club we are paying that sort of fee for anyone, even if he comes in and blows the league away with goals.

All it does is put him in the shop window for a rival to hijack the signing.

[jim mk2]

28 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

We don't know yet if McGuire will be Championship level.

Any fee for Gally would not have been reinvested in players.

We now have 2 "main" strikers with Leonard as back up.

I have never been convinced by Gally but for the rest of this season at least I'm ok with him being with us.

Other observations:

We got a fee for Ennis. Bloody amazing even though it will be disappeared already.

How did we get away with the McGuire switch to a loan. A con in plain sight.

I'd have taken any money on offer for Gallagher. 

The Ennis is fee is baffling but welcome. He's lucky he's still a professional footballer

[JBiz]

12 minutes ago, Bronzed A Donis said:

Not true though is it. You appear to be the only person worked up at a difference in outlook. I saw a post of yours earlier and by and large agreed with a decent chunk of it. I just have a different take on some things, no problem.

In terms of a black hole. If you excuse the terminology,  I think by and large that refers to the significant losses every year. The fact that it is a financial black hole,  we need to continue to find money to fill it. Yes these are operating costs and need to be paid , so a reference to this would be,  Venkys can't send over money ergo any money we can raise goes to pay/service our losses, creditor's etc. Which I think we can all agree falls on the owners.

Regarding asset stripping that's a libellous term. However , I think objectively if you sell your training ground separating it from the club and then borrow against it with a third party , you have what appears to be a use of assets to ahem...service the black hole.

If you have an alternative perspective, please enlighten me , because on basic terms that is my view of how we are run.

Yes it is true. This website, under previous management, didn't have a “tone” set out through admin / moderators.

Now it does. When the owner of the site is suggesting that the BBC lancs football pundits, Andy Bayes, the LET and many others, are under some sort of paid agreement to toe the “Venky party line”…. That would’ve never happened before. Conspiratorial nonsense.

Also the very definition of the term Black Hole - what does it mean? A gap - an inexplicable one, in space and time.

@RoverCanada’s post should be required reading prior to anyone posting about funding, because every single penny the club has wasted in 13 years, is in text for all to see.

 I can hold my hand up with everyone else when asked how pissed off I am at the way this set of charlatans run the club. That’s with actual facts, not made up bullshit that literally demeans the real issues involved.

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Crozzy said:

We might be a half physical team again. Remember when the big clubs were scared of our physicality. We’ve been SO soft in recent years 

It gets the crowd going as well.

[jim mk2]

5 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

 

I accept that the Wharton money will go on running costs but it begs the question what do we do in summer? There isn't another Wharton coming through who we can sell.

I doubt we will get dragged into a relegation battle this season but what happens next season?  Loaned players and those out of contract will depart - leaving us with another major rebuild.  

This transfer window has been a sticking plaster over our structural problems to get us through the next 4-5 months. What they've done is kick the can down the road, in others words put off hard decisions until the summer.

They're hoping the court case resolves itself and the club can perhaps move forward. But there's a possibility that it won't - and we'll still be in this same situation in the run-up to next season.

As it stands, with so many loanees and the squad constantly in flux, there will need to be another rebuilding job in the summer, possibly searching for a new manager too.  And so it continues

 

[islander200]

47 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

The deal almost collapsed late Wednesday so he may have been down there, but the money certainly won't have been.

Like I say, after calming down slightly,maybe, just maybe I can now seen some sort of plan.

Short term fixes hopefully get us through to the summer and then have a real go.

I'm hoping the LT are asking the same question of G B when he pops up.

If Fleck is fit I'd give the window 5/10, before that 3/10 at best.

McGuire obviously an unknown quantity, thr other loans don't see making a huge contribution, especially the Liverpool lad

I know I'm repeating myself but the let can ask GB all the questions in the world , why do you think he will have any answers?

We were making cash bids to buy players permanent on Wednesday 24 hours later it was only players on deals till the end of the season we could sign.

Broughton will not have a clue what his budget is for next season , and if he does by the time summer comes round the goalposts will be moved again .

[Bronzed A Donis]

I can only speak for myself. I don't feel their is a party line or a set tone. Although many posters have a similar view, it's not universal or mandated.

I appreciate the science lesson, astronomy and the wonders of the universe fascinate me, almost as much unanswered questions as to why Venkys are still here.

 (figurative) The company viewed the venture as a financial black hole (= it would use a lot of the company's money with no real result

"I view Rovers revenue against outgoings as resulting in a financial black hole, patched up with selling training ground or a player"

I can't make it clearer , no conspiracy theory it's a fact. It's in black and white. We havent always been this mismanaged. I think we both agree on that.

I haven't seen or referenced anything fabricated, no nefarious theories, just calling what I see that is factual, which is why I am trying but struggling to understand your perception there is less of an issue than there is being made out to be.

I am sure I have seen the post referenced but if not , I'll absolutely read it. I agree some of the wider theories certainly years ago about Glasgow gangs undermine the credibility of sharing the wider issues.

[Ewood Ace]

Pleasantly surprised to wake up this morning and see the Fleck signing, good player and a good signing. But a 6 month contract? This whole window has basically been a 6 month sticking plaster and nothing resembling the 'player trading model' that has previously been spoken of.

[Silas]

12 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Yes it is true. This website, under previous management, didn't have a “tone” set out through admin / moderators.

Now it does. When the owner of the site is suggesting that the BBC lancs football pundits, Andy Bayes, the LET and many others, are under some sort of paid agreement to toe the “Venky party line”…. That would’ve never happened before. Conspiratorial nonsense.

Also the very definition of the term Black Hole - what does it mean? A gap - an inexplicable one, in space and time.

@RoverCanada’s post should be required reading prior to anyone posting about funding, because every single penny the club has wasted in 13 years, is in text for all to see.

 I can hold my hand up with everyone else when asked how pissed off I am at the way this set of charlatans run the club. That’s with actual facts, not made up bullshit that literally demeans the real issues involved.

As a messageboard historian and connoisseur, I'd have thought you would maybe tag him in, and give right of reply. 

@J*B

Or you trying to create your own echo.