v Bristol City (h) - 12/12/23

[Exiled_Rover]

12 hours ago, tomphil said:

Nah i think it's obvious there would always have been a signing like Tele to replace Vale.

There was no money to spend anyway so as GB said there wasn't a massive sea change in their targets. Ennis on a 4 year deal was clearly to replace Dack in the squad whilst the plan on the pitch was to utilize Sammie more as a goal threat.

Leonard would probably have gone on loan so that is where the budget cuts came into play and they kept him. There was never a plan to invest big in a forward i don't think, hence Ennis is somewhat of a marquee gamble that has so far failed to ignite.

Szmodics replaced Dack as the #10 last year.

We were chasing ST targets all summer - the list changed when the owners turned the taps off. I think the plan was always to bring in Ennis (as a replacement for Vale) and A.N. Other as the #9. Leonard would have been sent out on loan. 

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Well.... I don't think the suicide ball was an unintended mistake. We play that pass into marked midfielders quite frequently. The burden seems to be on the receiver (usually Wharton, Tronstad or Moran) to take the ball, beat the marker and make a pass. Or if they are under too much pressure bounce the ball back to the defender with a controlled touch.

So in the way we play not sure Carter would have been perceived as doing anything wrong.

So he's just following orders to commit suicide passes.

Our calm acceptance of madness is surreal.

I would add that I also believe Carter was just following orders as I credit him with more sense.

Just chalk it down to a Tippy Tappy ASSit, one of the leading assisters in modern day football. Thanks Pep.

Meanwhile slightly extended highlights courtesy of BC

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by AllRoverAsia

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

21 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

So he's just following orders to commit suicide passes.

Our calm acceptance of madness is surreal.

I would add that I also believe Carter was just following orders as I credit him with more sense.

Just chalk it down to a Tippy Tappy ASSit, one of the leading assisters in modern day football. Thanks Pep.

Meanwhile slightly extended highlights courtesy of BC

 

Great pass from Sammi for  the first goal.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, Lancaster Rover said:

There was a really good example with maybe 10 mins to go of the potential effect of hoofing it in to the corner to compare against playing out. (this example is caveated with our side being knackered and several tactical changes having been made)

 

Wahlstedt sent one over the top of everyone, giving possession right back to them. they then had space to drive at pace into our half unopposed; this drew our players in, creating space for them to play into and ended up drawing a brilliant save from Wahlstedt.

Now I'm not saying that the high risk stuff we play at times is always the best decision however there were a couple of occasions last night (not just this) where playing the ball long for it to come straight back at you has greater risk of creating chances than playing out from the back. More often than not when playing out you're doing so with an overload position, against largely static opposition. Surrendering the ball by playing long often means you're defending against more players, at higher speed and with runners beyond the ball.

For their goal nobody is saying we should have banged it into the other half and lost possession. There was a Rovers player completely un-marked in the right wing position who was available. That’s where the ball should have gone. Having said that the lad on the right wing should have made it more obvious he wanted the ball. Just standing there like he was queuing for a pie isn’t good enough.

[booth]

There's no way they are told to suicide pass on the training field. I imagine the staff are hoping the players will exercise some common sense, and with young tired players sometimes that goes astray.

[AllRoverAsia]

29 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Great pass from Sammi for  the first goal.

Yes and well taken by Siggy, very clinical.

20 minutes ago, booth said:

There's no way they are told to suicide pass on the training field. I imagine the staff are hoping the players will exercise some common sense, and with young tired players sometimes that goes astray.

I do believe they are coached to play out from the back in that manner.

The players are not making it up as they go along. It's now in our DNA.

In the same vein the keeper is instructed to play short passes and the ones that always scare me are those played to a player on the edge of our box facing his own goal whilst closely marked but with little idea how close.

Adam and to an extent Tronstad are our only players able to deal more often than not with receiving such passes and they make errors. Moran is not yet technical enough to cope and should not be used for such.

Edited December 13, 2023 by AllRoverAsia

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Great pass from Sammi for  the first goal.

Might be our best goal of the season so far for me - defence splitting pass from Wharton, lovely round the corner layoff from Szmodics, beautiful take and finish from Sigurdsson.

From a match littered with poor control and misplaced passes it was a real gem

[rigger]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Yes and well taken by Siggy, very clinical.

I do believe they are coached to play out from the back in that manner.

The players are not making it up as they go along. It's now in our DNA.

In the same vein the keeper is instructed to play short passes and the ones that always scare me are those played to a player on the edge of our box facing his own goal whilst closely marked but with little idea how close.

Adam and to an extent Tronstad are our only players able to deal more often than not with receiving such passes and they make errors. Moran is not yet technical enough to cope and should not be used for such.

Sometimes the receiving player just has to hold the ball, and take the tackle, as the tackle is from behind nine times out of ten the ref will give a foul. In their goal last night the pass out to the right side was the obvious safest ball. At worst we would have given away a throw.

[bluebruce]

5 hours ago, booth said:

I'd say it's more on Moran who had been passing the ball like that all night, but Carter isn't blameless. No need to even pass it to a player in danger, who clearly wasn't having a good game. You wonder if some footballers use their brain at all.

I didn't see the whole match to know how he was passing all night, but within that moment, whilst he was a little clumsy with it and could have done better, it was harder for him to come through that situation a winner than it was for Carter to just make the sensible pass to the player in space. I like Carter but that was brain dead.

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

For their goal nobody is saying we should have banged it into the other half and lost possession. There was a Rovers player completely un-marked in the right wing position who was available. That’s where the ball should have gone. Having said that the lad on the right wing should have made it more obvious he wanted the ball. Just standing there like he was queuing for a pie isn’t good enough.

If you're in acres of space, ahead of the play, and don't want the ball, you shouldn't be on the pitch. It shouldn't take waving your hands like a loon for your teammate to think you want it.

[NeilInBristol]

10 hours ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Moran

Yep. Auto correct haha

[bluebruce]

5 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Well.... I don't think the suicide ball was an unintended mistake. We play that pass into marked midfielders quite frequently. The burden seems to be on the receiver (usually Wharton, Tronstad or Moran) to take the ball, beat the marker and make a pass. Or if they are under too much pressure bounce the ball back to the defender with a controlled touch.

So in the way we play not sure Carter would have been perceived as doing anything wrong.

I'd be beyond astonished if that's how it's discussed in training after the game. It doesn't make a lick of sense in that situation to choose Moran as the receiver. We can talk all we like about drawing players out of position with riskier passes to open up spaces, I get the logic behind all that, but when a player is already in a very good space, how can that remain the tactic? Giving it to a wide player who has space to maraud down the flank is also another way to move opposition players out of position.

I'm confident Carter will be told he made the wrong choice. I wonder if he simply didn't see the player out wide. On the replay from behind the goal he doesn't seem to look in that direction at all. If he did see him, perhaps he thought the Bristol player that checked his run and came back inside was going to keep going out wide (still a bad call even if he had though).

[Dreams of 1995]

It was a real Championship game weren't it? Full of baggy touches and misplaced passes. There were a few tired legs out there and the Christmas period is just getting going..

Leo was great. He answered his critics. His saves brought us the 3 pts and was my man of the match.

Tronstad is a serious midfielder. His composure on the ball mixed with the aggression in the tackle - perfect combination. One particular tackle comes to mind, where he ended up winning the foul after and relieved the pressure on us

Moran had has bad a game as he has had for us. He's a tidy player so I will just chalk it down as "one of them"

To do well in this league you have to win ugly. It's something we need to learn to do more. So that will be good experience for us. Bristol City are no great shakes though. They were really poor throughout and I felt a better team might have taken that game to us more.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Dreams of 1995

[booth]

18 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I didn't see the whole match to know how he was passing all night, but within that moment, whilst he was a little clumsy with it and could have done better, it was harder for him to come through that situation a winner than it was for Carter to just make the sensible pass to the player in space. I like Carter but that was brain dead.

I think I was probably biased after seeing him lose the ball all match. And after seeing the replay it was very stupid and unnecessary by Carter.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

23 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

If you're in acres of space, ahead of the play, and don't want the ball, you shouldn't be on the pitch. It shouldn't take waving your hands like a loon for your teammate to think you want it.

You don’t need to make a big deal of it. Move a few steps towards the ball and with your hand in front of you make a quick beckoning gesture. You see that and you give that player the ball.

[joey_big_nose]

46 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I'd be beyond astonished if that's how it's discussed in training after the game. It doesn't make a lick of sense in that situation to choose Moran as the receiver. We can talk all we like about drawing players out of position with riskier passes to open up spaces, I get the logic behind all that, but when a player is already in a very good space, how can that remain the tactic? Giving it to a wide player who has space to maraud down the flank is also another way to move opposition players out of position.

I'm confident Carter will be told he made the wrong choice. I wonder if he simply didn't see the player out wide. On the replay from behind the goal he doesn't seem to look in that direction at all. If he did see him, perhaps he thought the Bristol player that checked his run and came back inside was going to keep going out wide (still a bad call even if he had though).

I guess we can watch next game and see if it continues. But for me we're passing to marked playes way too much for them all to be mistakes. And to be fair to the recipient they usually handle it well. The Moran goal was a poor one to concede, but considering we play like this every game its quite rare it bites us. 

[47er]

On 14/12/2023 at 06:59, joey_big_nose said:

I guess we can watch next game and see if it continues.

Its been a feature  since JDT arrived. Remember the Burnley game?

Its not going to change, he just expects us to get better at it. Its costing us goals and points. We score some real gems and then concede in the most stupid ways possible.

Nothing wrong with having a system but it has to be able to be varied according to the circumstances ie when in trouble, don't short pass to someone in even more trouble, if you have to leather it, leather it.

Edited December 14, 2023 by 47er

[47er]

11 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

to be fair to the recipient they usually handle it well. The Moran goal was a poor one to concede, but considering we play like this every game its quite rare it bites us.

You mean sometimes we get away with it when we should have been in no danger at all.

[bluebruce]

18 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I guess we can watch next game and see if it continues. But for me we're passing to marked playes way too much for them all to be mistakes. And to be fair to the recipient they usually handle it well. The Moran goal was a poor one to concede, but considering we play like this every game its quite rare it bites us. 

I think we are good at it, and confident at it, so we feel we can get away with passing to marked players rather than it being a strategy as such. That complacency will bite us in the ass sometimes though, like with this one.

[NeilInBristol]

4 hours ago, booth said:

There's no way they are told to suicide pass on the training field. I imagine the staff are hoping the players will exercise some common sense, and with young tired players sometimes that goes astray.

Yeh that must explain it. Gotta remember they are playing longer games these days too so probably tired. Glad it didn't cost the whole game! But last year we missed out on play offs by goal difference so they do need to sharpen up

[bluebruce]

56 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You don’t need to make a big deal of it. Move a few steps towards the ball and with your hand in front of you make a quick beckoning gesture. You see that and you give that player the ball.

I give the player in space the ball. Whether they're beckoning for it or not.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I give the player in space the ball. Whether they're beckoning for it or not.

Fair enough but it doesn’t hurt to show for the ball. 

[rigger]

42 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I guess we can watch next game and see if it continues. But for me we're passing to marked playes way too much for them all to be mistakes. And to be fair to the recipient they usually handle it well. The Moran goal was a poor one to concede, but considering we play like this every game its quite rare it bites us. 

But is that down to poor finishing against us

[Exiled_Rover]

11 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Fair enough but it doesn’t hurt to show for the ball. 

I do that every Wednesday night at my 7 a side and sometimes get bollocked for it "I didn't call for it!" 🤣

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I do that every Wednesday night at my 7 a side and sometimes get bollocked for it "I didn't call for it!" 🤣

Perhaps there is another reason that they don't pass to you.