Yasin Ayari

[RoversClitheroe]

Happy if Ayari, Chrisene never ever play for us again - useless.

[KentExile]

33 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Happy if Ayari, Chrisene never ever play for us again - useless.

Just imagine the "quality" of the French lad on loan from Liverpool.  He cant even get off our bench, and Chrisene was preferred over him at CB (which is apparently Koumetio's natural position)

Edited February 23 by KentExile

[Oldgregg86]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

At the risk of repeating myself - players basically fit into two groups. The ones that get you on top in the game and the ones that start playing when the first group have given them the platform to play on. I’ll let you decide which group Moran fits into.

Neither

[philipl]

Sounds like he picked up a potentially bad injury in training last Friday.

Out for at least two weeks.

A shame because he looked like he could become a player for us but the chances are he is going back to Brighton and we will see no more of him.

[riverholmes]

Dredging this up again as I noticed Ayari starting for Sweden again. He's had some starts for Brighton too, though, probably is going to be a squad player this season. Also, noticed the other day that Ben Chrisene made an England U21 appearance.

Thinking back to Branthwaite, Clarkson, Harwood-Bellis (he was decent, I think, for Rovers) and others, it does seem that a lot of the times Rovers are paying for the 'privilege' to develop Premier League players for relatively little if any gain for the club. Fortunately, Owen Beck has been a success story, as loans go (thus far, because if Liverpool are still flying high, I can see them trying to recall him).

It would be more palatable if we were getting comparable benefits with our outgoing loans. In most cases not, though Markanday is doing well and adding a bit of value as an asset, if nothing else - and Gent's loan success earned the club a fee. The system looks very flawed - with relative added value skewed hugely to the Premier League clubs. No doubt, Beck's transfer value will rise a lot if he finishes the season with us as player of the season.

Rovers are surviving by loan patch-ups - and will do more so as our academy pipeline looks like its drying up. However, we need to have a longer term outlook. If we get a Chrisene on loan and he looks promising, we need to consider signing him up permanently and retaining and growing the value we've added. It's tough to compete for Prem players, but I think there'll be cases where it can be done, if there was a will.

 

 

Edited November 17 by riverholmes

[Ghost7]

Yasine Ayari was misused by Rovers imo and barely featured when he clearly had something. We went with either Moran, JRC, Garrett or Buckley instead. Even Fleck... Anyone but him it appeared.

At one point we had A.Wharton and Ayari and they still didn't start together.

[rigger]

7 hours ago, riverholmes said:

Dredging this up again as I noticed Ayari starting for Sweden again. He's had some starts for Brighton too, though, probably is going to be a squad player this season. Also, noticed the other day that Ben Chrisene made an England U21 appearance.

Thinking back to Branthwaite, Clarkson, Harwood-Bellis (he was decent, I think, for Rovers) and others, it does seem that a lot of the times Rovers are paying for the 'privilege' to develop Premier League players for relatively little if any gain for the club. Fortunately, Owen Beck has been a success story, as loans go (thus far, because if Liverpool are still flying high, I can see them trying to recall him).

It would be more palatable if we were getting comparable benefits with our outgoing loans. In most cases not, though Markanday is doing well and adding a bit of value as an asset, if nothing else - and Gent's loan success earned the club a fee. The system looks very flawed - with relative added value skewed hugely to the Premier League clubs. No doubt, Beck's transfer value will rise a lot if he finishes the season with us as player of the season.

Rovers are surviving by loan patch-ups - and will do more so as our academy pipeline looks like its drying up. However, we need to have a longer term outlook. If we get a Chrisene on loan and he looks promising, we need to consider signing him up permanently and retaining and growing the value we've added. It's tough to compete for Prem players, but I think there'll be cases where it can be done, if there was a will.

 

 

I think it is more down to a lack of money, than the will.

[Forever Blue]

11 hours ago, riverholmes said:

Rovers are surviving by loan patch-ups - and will do more so as our academy pipeline looks like it’s drying up. However, we need to have a longer term outlook. If we get a Chrisene on loan and he looks promising, we need to consider signing him up permanently and retaining and growing the value we've added. It's tough to compete for Prem players, but I think there'll be cases where it can be done, if there was a will.

 

 

Rather than drying up, I was under the impression we had some lads with real potential in the Academy? 

[rigger]

14 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

Rather than drying up, I was under the impression we had some lads with real potential in the Academy? 

A false impression, it depends on your expectation of potential.

Edited November 17 by rigger

[Forever Blue]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

A false impression, it depends on your expectation of potential.

A false impression according to you, not to others who are possibly more qualified to judge. 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

40 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

A false impression according to you, not to others who are possibly more qualified to judge. 

The performance of several of the brighter stars of our Academy on loan this season suggests it may not only Rigger who feels this. How many are playing regularly at the moment? 

[rigger]

53 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

A false impression according to you, not to others who are possibly more qualified to judge. 

Have you seen the results for the academy teams.

[roverandout]

Van hecke starting alongside van dijk as well

[Mattyblue]

Results don’t particularly matter. All about the odd player that will make it to the first team.

If there’s a diamond in the group the rest are there to make up the numbers… and will end up on loan at the likes of Marine and eventually released.

[Forever Blue]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

Have you seen the results for the academy teams.

 Completely irrelevant. The teams may be shite, or they may just be playing lads who are older. Regardless, results don’t matter, as every Academy coach will tell you. 
 

The quality of the Academy is judged on the number of players it produces for the first team. 

 

1 hour ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

The performance of several of the brighter stars of our Academy on loan this season suggests it may not only Rigger who feels this. How many are playing regularly at the moment? 

I would suggest the brighter stars aren’t out on loan.

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

Have you seen the results for the academy teams.

I think a number of our better players in the various age groups are playing at a higher age group level than they have to, be it with the club or out on loan, and that weakens the results of some teams. It's a change of policy that has been introduced this season. I don't think you should read too much in to it; judging from the international call ups and reported interest from other clubs in our players we still seem to be doing pretty well with the Academy.

[rigger]

34 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think a number of our better players in the various age groups are playing at a higher age group level than they have to, be it with the club or out on loan, and that weakens the results of some teams. It's a change of policy that has been introduced this season. I don't think you should read too much in to it; judging from the international call ups and reported interest from other clubs in our players we still seem to be doing pretty well with the Academy.

When I first started to watch the youngsters, Batty, Phillips and Wharton stood out as potentials, now no-one stands out as likely to be successful at Championship level. To me as a paying supporter, results always matter.

[Mattyblue]

They don’t in development teams, what matters is finding players for the first team… where it is all about results.

[bluebruce]

The best prospects in the Academy at present seem to be Harvey Higgins (I suspect he's going to get poached too early), Igor Tyjon (also a risk of that), Duru, Litherland, and Atcheson (on loan at a bizarrely low level given the praise I've heard for him). I suspect that's a good enough crop tbf, but that the best two prospects there are going to be gone too soon and we might get one or two squad players from the rest.

[rigger]

14 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

The best prospects in the Academy at present seem to be Harvey Higgins (I suspect he's going to get poached too early), Igor Tyjon (also a risk of that), Duru, Litherland, and Atcheson (on loan at a bizarrely low level given the praise I've heard for him). I suspect that's a good enough crop tbf, but that the best two prospects there are going to be gone too soon and we might get one or two squad players from the rest.

For me Duru and Markanday maybe able to make championship level.

Edited November 17 by rigger

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

For me Duru and Markanday maybe able to make championship level.

We paid a fair bit for Markanday, he doesn't count as a homegrowner. I was talking about academy players. I think Duru can make it aye. His opportunities seem to have dried up lately though which is a shame.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

For me Duru and Markanday maybe able to make championship level.

Markanday is not a Championship player - how many times does he have to prove that?

[KentExile]

11 hours ago, bluebruce said:

The best prospects in the Academy at present seem to be Harvey Higgins (I suspect he's going to get poached too early), Igor Tyjon (also a risk of that), Duru, Litherland, and Atcheson (on loan at a bizarrely low level given the praise I've heard for him). I suspect that's a good enough crop tbf, but that the best two prospects there are going to be gone too soon and we might get one or two squad players from the rest.

I'd add James Edmondson and possibly Powell onto that list.

Given that Michalski is in the U18s for England, you would also suspect him too, but I cannot say that he has looked like a stand out for me.

Dunn and Leatherbarrow, (both first year scholars) also seem to be getting fast tracked into the U21s

Edited November 18 by KentExile

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Edmundson looks decent but I don’t think he's the next Phillips. Powell ditto but is he any better than Gent or Batty were ? After that, the rest don’t impress. Tyjon and Duru must be decent but I’m reserving judgement at the moment.

[KentExile]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Edmundson looks decent but I don’t think he's the next Phillips. Powell ditto but is he any better than Gent or Batty were ? After that, the rest don’t impress. Tyjon and Duru must be decent but I’m reserving judgement at the moment.

The list I was adding them to was BlueBruces list of the better prospects we currently have, I was not stating that either of them would be Premier League players.

Edited Monday at 13:41 by KentExile