John Eustace - our head coach

[Mattyblue]

Most ‘stick’ he’s got is due to him not winning a game until Monday.

Obviously most of said stick will soon dissipate if he wins a couple more this month, as though they aren’t a priority for the club itself, for most fans it’s a results business.
 

Edited April 4 by Mattyblue

[Hasta]

I liked JDT and am annoyed that he wasn't supported by the club. Had he been, and kept the club moving forward, then the likes of Britain and Scott Wharton would have either toed the line or been upgraded upon. However he wasn't supported, his stubbornness grew and the players clearly became unhappy. The manager wanted out. Several players wanted him out and this was showing on the pitch, especially in his final game against QPR. He clearly had to leave after his feelings had been 'outed' to the press following a disastrous transfer window.

Eustace has come and and has 1 job - keep us up. JDT had shown what you could do with this squad of players when they were performing well and hadn't downed tools. Therefore with players coming back from injury I expected it should have been fairly easy with the fixtures to stay up. I know we needed to tighten up at the back, but the football we were playing went so sharply backwards with little goal threat it was alarming. Add in 0 wins and its no surprise fans were restless. The last few games had shown improvement and then once we went in front at Sunderland we were excellent.

My issue with Eustace has always been he should keep this squad up. Yet people were talking like if we go down it wasn't his fault. Like he needs to be a magician to turn this squad back to even half of the form we showed up until Christmas.  That's where I disagree. Relegation would be a huge failure by him. If he keeps us up by 1 point or by 10 points, that is irrelevant.

He will then have the summer to work with the players, see what transfer activity happens (yes I know) and next August I will set a criteria which personally I will judge his success or failure by next season. I'm not too interested in how media friendly he is. I'm not even that fussed on style of football as long as it wins games.

The only things he needs to be careful of is coming out with any "Owners are wonderful" , "It's not 1995 anymore" comments. His comments the other day about negativity shows he is missing the mark. Waggot would have been better having Eustace sit down with a few of the fan groups (with the CCTV off this time) so he can judge the issues the fans have rather sending in some token players a few weeks ago. 

 

Edited April 5 by Hasta

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto Mk2 said:

We are indeed blessed to have his 15-months senior-level management experience then. Did many of the clubs whose offers he spurned have double-digit top honours wins, 30,000 seat stadia and Cat 1 Academies?

He’s a novice at this level; he may come good and I hope he does, but currently he’s a lot luckier to be at Blackburn Rovers than Blackburn Rovers are to have nabbed him.

Is he luckier to be our manager than Keano, Coyle, Appleton, Berg, Bowyer ?

[Dreams of 1995]

6 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Hey Dreams, great post. A few thoughts in response to it.

The yes man vs willing to work debate is an interesting one. Personally given the rampant abuse of our club by those running it, anyone happy to work in that and not challenge it is probably pretty complicit. And we've seem at Rovers those employed with us can be complicit in the destruction of the club, Waggott and Kean for two. Not saying he is at that level but rather it's hard to see him not being involved in the misuse of our club. I guess one analogy would be a manager who comes in to a factory using child labour to make substandard products and is happy to work in that framework. I'm not sure you can be happy to work with our framework and not be complicit because it is so broken and so clearly wrong. Hopefully this doesn't come across as over dramatic, the point I'm trying to make is I don't think the two are that distinct. 

Mind you add in him being a Maggot appointment and that doesn't help me give him the benerit of the doubt! That man is poison and I wouldn't trust him not to appoint a yes man. Not that thsys evidence enough in itself but again has me leaning towards the dud and complicit perspective. I also don't think that Eustace's commente help either. At Rovers I feel comments matter more. Added to 2hidj he comes across as deluded and part of the corruption in our club when he comes up with such wild untruths. 

So yeah not a fan! I will say in fairness though anyone coming in after JDT would  e viewed negatively. Appreciate you getting me to think more how much is a reaction to JDT leaving Rovers and if I'm being overly harsh

I think I'll just pick on this point really

For me, JDT was a fantastic coach. The best we have had since we were taken over for sure. He is a winner and that sort of mentality means you clash heads with people like Steve Waggott

One thing I will say is though, is that not everybody is like JDT. Most people in sport are in there because it is their job. They are well compensated, for sure, but it is still a day job. A lot of fans take the impression that because they are well paid, they should be able to abandon their principles and quit at the drop of a hat or say things and act in a way which will definitely get them sacked. I don't think it is always that easy myself. Eustace is 110% not in the mould of Waggot and Kean; he is ambitious too. What he doesn't have for him is the huge name of JDT, or the league victories with Malmo, behind him. So it would be more difficult for him to come in and immediately start calling out the club. And let's get it right, it took JDT a whole season before he started calling it out regularly. So to expect it immediately from Eustace is probably unfair

He isn't deluded. He has worked at some basket case clubs to be fair, so knows the score. It probably doesn't mean much but I wholeheartedly promise you Eustace is a good bloke. He's been in the sport a long time and even down at the grassroots level. He doesn't need to be complicit in corruption. He is here to focus on the football and that's all

I don't really know what wild untruths you mean except for maybe his comments on performances. Again, he has just come in to the club, so is coming into interviews and telling everybody his players are crap and not performing well enough the best thing to do right now? I'd wager he has a list of players he is growing to trust, and a list of those he doesn't, and like any new coach he will be looking to shift the side in his favour over the summer

Tyrone's post is a good one. It isn't Eustace's fault about our club, but he's just an ordinary bloke come in to do a job as head coach. He has bills to pay and mouths to feed, so coming in to a new employer and throwing the toys out the pram puts that in jeopardy

[Admiral Nelsen]

39 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Therefore with players coming back from injury I expected it should have been fairly easy with the fixtures to stay up. I know we needed to tighten up at the back, but the football we were playing went so sharply backwards with little goal threat is was alarming. Add in 0 wins and its no surprise fans were restless. The last few games had shown improvement and then once we went in front at Sunderland we were excellent.

My issue with Eustace has always been he should keep this squad up. Yet people were talking like if we go down it wasn't his fault. Like he needs to be a magician to turn this squad back to even half of the form we showed up until Christmas.  That's where I disagree. Relegation would be a huge failure by him. If he keeps us up by 1 point or by 10 points, that is irrelevant.

 

Agree with quite a lot of this, but I'd add a couple of caveats.

The first is that when you've had 18 months being so committed a particular style of play like we were under JDT, you can't just unlearn that overnight and start afresh. You have to try as best you can, but it's not a simple transition to from that to a completely different way of playing without a decent amount of time on the training pitch. And that's the second point, we were playing Saturday - Tuesday - Saturday since his arrival until after Plymouth, meaning the last three games were the only genuine chances to see the fruits of his labour in my view. And like you say, there's been an improvement there. 

 

It would still be a big failure on his part if we were to actually get relegated. He hasn't been dealt *that* bad a hand. But it was a bad one nonetheless. I think we've seen how important playing Wharton and Trondstad together was to our early season form for instance. If he keeps us up, as it looks like he will, he'll start with pretty much a clean slate from me next year and we'll see what he can do with a full pre-season and with any luck a better squad. 

[B16Rover]

 

Admittedly on the windup slightly here but given we had a manager held ransom, a harder run and no fit players from mid November this doesn't look great 

[DeeCee]

Some great posts on this thread 👍

[Groundhog]

Looking back on JDT I'm totally torn 50/50. 

He gave the club some much needed ambition (that ultimately was his downfall), made Rovers into media darlings with the Cup runs, he gave good "interview", his charisma lifted the club above its station for a short while. I think everyone felt a buzz during his tenure, a rare thing, something you can't just buy in.

I notice how Rovers content online doesn't seem to be so forthcoming after games as it did under JDT, I definitely felt a desire to constantly scroll for news and comment about us in between matches, not just for dirt on the owners this time but actual football talk. Rovers have never been so much in my waking thoughts for the right reasons as they were in his short spell, not since the days of Hughes etc. You just felt part of something finally, and a relief to not have to just think about our illustrious owners for a short while. Football is all about hope, and he gave us bags of it.

But I don't think anyone can call JDT a fantastic coach, sorry. I've never seen a Rovers team crumble under pressure so easily using such suicidal tactics. Does anyone think him and his team studied the opposition? That feeling going a goal down knowing you weren't coming back into the game, no thanks. His ambition and charisma went someway to papering over the cracks. The first 20mins against Sunderland this season was some of the best football I've seen us play in decades, yet it was unsustainable and that for me, is bad management. You can't play how you want with the squad you have, and it shows a lack of care in the role, possibly arrogance, to let the shit behind the scenes get in the way of results, no matter how bad it was for him, you can't just "phone it in" at this level and down tools, the players will always follow suit, the perfect storm.

He seemed to be able to get away with the Turf Moor disaster, PNE at home, Rotherham, Sheff Utd away - I doubt any other manager will get that much of a free pass. I know some fans who took those games and performances very very badly, fans who only see what is on the pitch and don't care about his media image and what was said after games.

If you want a good exercise on a quiet night in and you've got nowt better to do, do what Roverschat did a few months ago and go through all of JDT's games and note down which ones were "good", there's not as many as you think. 

I think JE has been hard done to by certain comments, maybe the "selected by Waggott" tag hasn't helped - he's inherited a total rag-tag bunch of players full of different approaches, the squad lacks so much depth and experience - I think it explains the lack of new manager bounce - turning this ship around is a tough ask. His approach is pragmatic, how it should be done given the circumstances, a "normal" approach.

I just want to see us compete, be hard to beat, and they're showing glimpses of playing better football than under JDT in my opinion, or using what they learnt under him and mixing it up. 

JDT’s last 11 games: GF: 11 GA: 27 Points: 6
JE’s last 11 games: GF: 14 GA: 11 Points: 12

That's enough for me. Millwall and Plymouth were frustrating, but it's a transition. 

Edited April 4 by Groundhog

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, B16Rover said:

 

Admittedly on the windup slightly here but given we had a manager held ransom, a harder run and no fit players from mid November this doesn't look great 

Before Adam Wharton. After Adam Wharton. 

He really, sadly, is that good. 

[Hasta]

In 20 years time when people are looking at old Rovers managers stats and comparing them, there’ll still be some people popping up trying to give JE the Stoke win despite the record books. 😀

I don’t get why we are trying to ‘compare’ Eustace first 10 games against JDT’s worst run of 10 games. Practically everyone agrees JDT had to go so saying Eustace has done slightly better than JDT’s worst spell is pointless. As the only aim this season is stopping up, that is the metric I am judging him by.

Providing we stay up, how good John Eustace will be for Blackburn Rovers will be judged next season.

Edited April 4 by Hasta

[aletheia]

1 hour ago, Groundhog said:

he's inherited a total rag-tag bunch of players full of different approaches, the squad lacks so much depth and experience -

Same as before if not better due to more players available eg best front 4.
But not really interested anymore in comparisons. The shitshow is behind the scenes.

[simongarnerisgod]

the sad truth is if eustace steers us through this season and somehow has us in the top six by christmas next year,he`ll have his managerial legs chopped off and be forced to sell his best players,thats the way venkys have run rovers since they took over,he`ll either be made to sell them in the summer or the transfer window in january,no doubt there will be the big sell to get season tickets sales up then the big player sell off when season tickets sales reach their target

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Groundhog said:

Looking back on JDT I'm totally torn 50/50. 

He gave the club some much needed ambition (that ultimately was his downfall), made Rovers into media darlings with the Cup runs, he gave good "interview", his charisma lifted the club above its station for a short while. I think everyone felt a buzz during his tenure, a rare thing, something you can't just buy in.

I notice how Rovers content online doesn't seem to be so forthcoming after games as it did under JDT, I definitely felt a desire to constantly scroll for news and comment about us in between matches, not just for dirt on the owners this time but actual football talk. Rovers have never been so much in my waking thoughts for the right reasons as they were in his short spell, not since the days of Hughes etc. You just felt part of something finally, and a relief to not have to just think about our illustrious owners for a short while. Football is all about hope, and he gave us bags of it.

But I don't think anyone can call JDT a fantastic coach, sorry. I've never seen a Rovers team crumble under pressure so easily using such suicidal tactics. Does anyone think him and his team studied the opposition? That feeling going a goal down knowing you weren't coming back into the game, no thanks. His ambition and charisma went someway to papering over the cracks. The first 20mins against Sunderland this season was some of the best football I've seen us play in decades, yet it was unsustainable and that for me, is bad management. You can't play how you want with the squad you have, and it shows a lack of care in the role, possibly arrogance, to let the shit behind the scenes get in the way of results, no matter how bad it was for him, you can't just "phone it in" at this level and down tools, the players will always follow suit, the perfect storm.

He seemed to be able to get away with the Turf Moor disaster, PNE at home, Rotherham, Sheff Utd away - I doubt any other manager will get that much of a free pass. I know some fans who took those games and performances very very badly, fans who only see what is on the pitch and don't care about his media image and what was said after games.

If you want a good exercise on a quiet night in and you've got nowt better to do, do what Roverschat did a few months ago and go through all of JDT's games and note down which ones were "good", there's not as many as you think. 

I think JE has been hard done to by certain comments, maybe the "selected by Waggott" tag hasn't helped - he's inherited a total rag-tag bunch of players full of different approaches, the squad lacks so much depth and experience - I think it explains the lack of new manager bounce - turning this ship around is a tough ask. His approach is pragmatic, how it should be done given the circumstances, a "normal" approach.

I just want to see us compete, be hard to beat, and they're showing glimpses of playing better football than under JDT in my opinion, or using what they learnt under him and mixing it up. 

JDT’s last 11 games: GF: 11 GA: 27 Points: 6
JE’s last 11 games: GF: 14 GA: 11 Points: 12

That's enough for me. Millwall and Plymouth were frustrating, but it's a transition. 

If you cherry pick stats, as above- you can give a few things a different spin, to suit various arguments, though.

If you did JDT’s first 10 games against JE’s first 10 games, it would show something very different.

Or even as someone did the other day- JE’s first 10 games vs Michael Appleton’s first 10 games. 

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, simongarnerisgod said:

the sad truth is if eustace steers us through this season and somehow has us in the top six by christmas next year,he`ll have his managerial legs chopped off and be forced to sell his best players,thats the way venkys have run rovers since they took over,he`ll either be made to sell them in the summer or the transfer window in january,no doubt there will be the big sell to get season tickets sales up then the big player sell off when season tickets sales reach their target

This is the fundamental point as I've raised several times.

It actually doesn't matter to us whether Eustace is good, bad, mediocre. 

He could be brilliant and somehow get us near the top 2 next January. Outcome? As they've shown with Mowbray and JDT there will be no backing in January and probably a sale or two just to add good measure. Ultimately he'd get a better offer from a club with some ambition or walk in frustration.

He could be dreadful and take us down this season or next. Outcome? He's got 2 years still to go on his contract, they ain't sacking him as they ain't interested and if they do they'll do it far too late.

So it's all pointless until they clear off. Even if we stumble across a winning formula they'll make sure it doesn't last.

[simongarnerisgod]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

This is the fundamental point as I've raised several times.

It actually doesn't matter to us whether Eustace is good, bad, mediocre. 

He could be brilliant and somehow get us near the top 2 next January. Outcome? As they've shown with Mowbray and JDT there will be no backing in January and probably a sale or two just to add good measure. Ultimately he'd get a better offer from a club with some ambition or walk in frustration.

He could be dreadful and take us down this season or next. Outcome? He's got 2 years still to go on his contract, they ain't sacking him as they ain't interested and if they do they'll do it far too late.

So it's all pointless until they clear off. Even if we stumble across a winning formula they'll make sure it doesn't last.

tell that to some "fans" they put 20 million a season in y`know,we`de be like bury without them😰bunch of brainwashed sheep

[M_B]

19 hours ago, B16Rover said:

 

Admittedly on the windup slightly here but given we had a manager held ransom, a harder run and no fit players from mid November this doesn't look great 

Tomasson's figures include pre Christmas when we were playing as well as we have for some time. 

It's the post Christmas slide which needed arresting, we were in freefall and going down, hopefully Eustace can keep us up. As someone else has said, you can read stats however you want to some degree. 

If you look at Eustace's matches won, with or without Stoke, it looks poor. If you look at his matches lost and goals conceded he's done a great job. 

Take your pick. 

[Mattyblue]

Surely enough points on the board are the only metric that says you are doing a good job of not? You could draw every game 0-0 but go down… but think of the unbeaten run and clean sheets!

Edited April 5 by Mattyblue

[M_B]

8 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Surely enough points on the board are the only metric that says you are doing a good job of not? You could draw every game 0-0 but go down… but think of the unbeaten run and clean sheets!

If we get enough points to stay up he will have done his job, however he gets them.

We have obviously drawn a lot during Eustace's 11 matches, but the 11 previous we were lucky if we were even in a game, never mind drawing, and conceding 27 in the process. 

At least he's given us a chance we didn't look like having. 

Edited April 5 by M_B

[BlackburnEnd75]

In defence of JDT, look at the front 4 we had out vs Sunderland.

Hedges.   Szmodics.   Dolan

                  Gally.

Apparently that's the first time they've all played together this season (in a 4-2-3-1, they were all available vs Stoke and hedges played wing back). As they've all been injured at various points. That's our best front 4, if jdt had been able to play that with those players fully fit we wouldn't have been dragged into it.

Throw in jrc fit and even pears being consistently available and you can see my point. However to quote souness you've got to wee with the willy you've got and by the end we weren't doing that under JDT. 

[Mattyblue]

16 minutes ago, M_B said:

If we get enough points to stay up he will have done his job, however he gets them.

 

Agreed, which was my point. He will have only done close to a great job if he accrues enough points to keep us up - and he’ll need wins to do that (the first one on Monday was very timely, let’s try and almost put it to bed with another tomorrow).

No prizes in ‘making us solid’ with clean sheets and not losing many if too many draws lead to relegation.

 

Edited April 5 by Mattyblue

[M_B]

45 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Agreed, which was my point. He will have only done close to a great job if he accrues enough points to keep us up - and he’ll need wins to do that (the first one on Monday was very timely, let’s try and almost put it to bed with another tomorrow).

No prizes in ‘making us solid’ with clean sheets and not losing many if too many draws lead to relegation.

 

Well obviously, but I would have thought there's maybe a correlation between "making us solid" and actually having a chance to win a game. 

Unless you think conceding 27 goals every 11 games is the way to go. 

[Mattyblue]

No I don’t funnily enough… but too many draws can often send you down, especially considering we’ve burned through a heap of more ‘winnable’ games and now have far more ’on paper’ difficult matches coming up.

I’m stating the bleeding obvious but bugger everybody’s stats because we stay up he’s done his job, we go down he’s failed, simple as that.

Edited April 5 by Mattyblue

[Southside Rover]

Last season we were solid for many a game under JDT but whilst learning to play out from the back there were some horror shows. Our problem was scoring goals especially with BB went on his barren spell.

This year the football was much better, we have scored more freely but in doing so have been too openat the back.

As we have seen with JE, we can tighten up but the football has been dire and the goals dry up until last weekend.

With hindsight there are times we would want JDTs style and there are times when we need JEs but I still think JDT over achieved overall with this squad and with support would ultimately have proved a longer term success.

Some great points made and it can all be dissected in many ways. One thing not mentioned is player attraction. It's all personal but if I was approached by 2 clubs led by JDT and JE, I know who would inspire me more to play for because of his charisma, charm and standing in the game.

With all that, as others have said it really is all lost and pointless anyway under this ownership.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 hours ago, Southside Rover said:

Last season we were solid for many a game under JDT but whilst learning to play out from the back there were some horror shows. Our problem was scoring goals especially with BB went on his barren spell.

This year the football was much better, we have scored more freely but in doing so have been too openat the back.

As we have seen with JE, we can tighten up but the football has been dire and the goals dry up until last weekend.

With hindsight there are times we would want JDTs style and there are times when we need JEs but I still think JDT over achieved overall with this squad and with support would ultimately have proved a longer term success.

Some great points made and it can all be dissected in many ways. One thing not mentioned is player attraction. It's all personal but if I was approached by 2 clubs led by JDT and JE, I know who would inspire me more to play for because of his charisma, charm and standing in the game.

With all that, as others have said it really is all lost and pointless anyway under this ownership.

 

You can have charisma, charm and standing in the game by the bucketful but if the owners aren’t willing to pay the fee/wages nobody is going to sign.

[Andy]

I've been critical over his first several games, but I have to give credit for the last couple.

Let's hope it's the foundations of something good.