England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[Mattyblue]

Confusing me with someone else, I’m delighted they’ve had a lucky route through. 

[Dreams of 1995]

You make your own luck in football. We won the group, and that entitles you to an easier run in

I don’t care much for the constant to critically analyse everything. It’s tournament football - you make yourself hard to beat and hope for moments of brilliance to see you over the line. Southgate has been wonderful at doing that for England. If people want to say it is down to luck then that’s okay. I don’t care. It’s another semi final, more than likely his last tournament, and I hope his luck gets us to the final again 

[roverandout]

Now I've sobered up. It was a much better performance.  The good thing is we haven't reached our potential yet. Also England are getting good tournaments know how.  We're reaching semi finals and finals regularly now.  We are beginning to get that German/Italian mentality of winning ugly. We used to be a quarter final side. As for the Dutch we have better players than them and they look susceptible at the back. Mainoo and rice can definitely win the midfield battle.  The player that worries me is denzel dumfries. He is a very good right back. 

[Mattyblue]

‘Making your own luck’ is just a cliche.

What’s wrong with saying they had a slice of fortune with the draw, that’s football. Just like if would be if Rovers were in a similar cup situation, you can only beat what’s put in front of you.

[Darrenbot]

17 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You make your own luck in football. We won the group, and that entitles you to an easier run in

I don’t care much for the constant to critically analyse everything. It’s tournament football - you make yourself hard to beat and hope for moments of brilliance to see you over the line. Southgate has been wonderful at doing that for England. If people want to say it is down to luck then that’s okay. I don’t care. It’s another semi final, more than likely his last tournament, and I hope his luck gets us to the final again 

Won't be his last tournament,scraping through to another semi final will be enough for the FA to ask him to stay on.Plus he's got his mates in the media like Ollie Holt who will be leading campaigns to get him to stay.

Edited July 7 by Darrenbot

[M_B]

10 minutes ago, Darrenbot said:

Won't be his last tournament,scraping through to another semi final will be enough for the FA to ask him to stay on.Plus he's got his mates in the media like Ollie Holt who will be leading campaigns to get him to stay.

That, and reaching 3 out of the last 4 semi finals. 

[Upside Down]

39 minutes ago, M_B said:

Let me reverse the situation, would you say England had  been unlucky if they'd finished second and had to go in the other side of the draw? 

I'll preempt your answer as  no, England ballsed up for not winning their group. 

So you are telling me you don't understand the concept of luck or chance?

Seriously?

[M_B]

Just now, Upside Down said:

So you are telling me you don't understand the concept of luck or chance?

Seriously?

Would England have been unlucky if they'd finished second in their group, and ended up on the other side of the draw for the latter stages? 

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, M_B said:

Would England have been unlucky if they'd finished second in their group, and ended up on the other side of the draw for the latter stages? 

Deary me MB.

[Forever Blue]

16 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Making your own luck’ is just a cliche.

What’s wrong with saying they had a slice of fortune with the draw, that’s football. Just like if would be if Rovers were in a similar cup situation, you can only beat what’s put in front of you.

England made their own luck by winning the group. 

[M_B]

6 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Deary me MB.

Which translates to, no they wouldn't. 

Edited July 7 by M_B

[chaddyrovers]

54 minutes ago, Darrenbot said:

Won't be his last tournament,scraping through to another semi final will be enough for the FA to ask him to stay on.Plus he's got his mates in the media like Ollie Holt who will be leading campaigns to get him to stay.

I would have no problem with Southgate staying on. 

I see that Gary Lineker on his podcast saying Lampard should be option to replace Southgate if he goes. 

[wilsdenrover]

54 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

England made their own luck by winning the group. 

Winning our group put us in this half of the draw.

Other results resulted in this being the weaker half (on paper at least)

The first was under our control - not luck

The second was not under our control - good luck

 

[Upside Down]

Just now, wilsdenrover said:

Winning our group put us in this half of the draw.

Other results resulted in this being the weaker half (on paper at least)

The first was under our control - not luck

The second was not under our control - good luck

 

I'm really not sure what is so hard to understand about this.

Why did that even need explaining?

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Making your own luck’ is just a cliche.

What’s wrong with saying they had a slice of fortune with the draw, that’s football. Just like if would be if Rovers were in a similar cup situation, you can only beat what’s put in front of you.

It being a cliche doesn’t make it any less right

In order to earn that slice of fortune, we first had to win our group. In doing so, we created our own luck, as winning the group first entitles you to an easier knock out game but also gave us an easier route to the final

Had we not won the group, our knock out route would have been much more difficult. We therefore created our own luck. What’s wrong with saying that? 

This argument just seems odd. Do posters just want to put all of this down to luck and be done with it? Should that make you feel better, then you’re free to make that claim 

[M_B]

21 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I'm really not sure what is so hard to understand about this.

Why did that even need explaining?

The tournament is a pre determined route towards the final, results then determine who and when you play as you progress. 

That England wouldn't meet France until the final is due to both teams' results, not the consequence of being drawn out of a bag. 

It really isn't difficult to understand, any fixture is determined by the success or failure of each team,not by the luck of the draw. 

[DE.]

Germany, Spain and Portugal all won their groups and ended up on the difficult side of the draw, though. Indeed, so much so that Spain and Germany played each other in the quarters. Surely you have to accept there's some luck there in how the seedings worked out. 

[wilsdenrover]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

Germany, Spain and Portugal all won their groups and ended up on the difficult side of the draw, though. Indeed, so much so that Spain and Germany played each other in the quarters. Surely you have to accept there's some luck there in how the seedings worked out. 

You just need to read the definition of luck to know it played a part in who did and didn’t end up in the easier (on paper) side of the knockout stages. 

Edited July 7 by wilsdenrover

[M_B]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

Germany, Spain and Portugal all won their groups and ended up on the difficult side of the draw, though. Indeed, so much so that Spain and Germany played each other in the quarters. Surely you have to accept there's some luck there in how the seedings worked out. 

Our side of the draw had England and France, the two pre tournament favourites,ours was the perceived "hardest" side of the draw .

 

Edited July 7 by M_B

[Forever Blue]

47 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Winning our group put us in this half of the draw.

Other results resulted in this being the weaker half (on paper at least)

The first was under our control - not luck

The second was not under our control - good luck

 

I’ve no idea if you’re disagreeing or not 😉

But…winning our group meant we could take advantage of the luck that followed. Hence, we made our own luck. 

[DE.]

6 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

You just need to read the definition of luck to know it played a part in who did and didn’t end up in the easier (on paper) side of the knockout stages. 

I don't get how it's become an argument. Obviously we've been fortunate in this tournament in numerous ways. We had statistically one of the worst Euros groups ever and winning that group (with only one victory and two goals) means we avoided pretty much all of the big boys. 

We have enough of the propaganda from Rovers, do we need it for England as well? It's okay to say we've been lucky so far. It's not a knock on Southgate or the team. Luck plays a massive part in sports as not everything can be calculated to specific outcomes. What will matter is if we can take advantage of that to win the tournament. So far, by hook or by crook, we have done. Now our first genuine test arrives on Wednesday - let's see what we can do. 

Edited July 7 by DE.

[wilsdenrover]

6 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

I’ve no idea if you’re disagreeing or not 😉

But…winning our group meant we could take advantage of the luck that followed. Hence, we made our own luck. 

You can’t make your own luck - luck is something outside your control.

 

[rigger]

3 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

You can’t make your own luck - luck is something outside your control.

 

Luck is a figment of the imagination.

[London blue]

The only circumstance upon which Southgate's contract should be extended is if we win the thing. He absolutely has his faults but you simply cannot let our first successful manager in 60 years go.

Any other eventuality, we should be looking elsewhere. His work regarding the culture of the squad and the mentality is done and that would all be undone with another late exit. 

Lampard would be an awful, awful appointment and I have more faith in the FA (lol) than that.

[Forever Blue]

Just now, wilsdenrover said:

You can’t make your own luck - luck is something outside your control.

 

You’re taking the phrase too literally. You can’t manufacture luck, but you can put yourself in a position to take advantage of opportunities that arise. Hence, you make your own luck.

When I go to the pub later and get hit on by some beautiful young women it’s because I went to the pub instead of sitting in my house in my soiled undies. 😉

Anyway, there  have been scientific studies that prove you can make your own luck.