England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[MarkBRFC]

Stick that game at Villa Park or Elland Road or wherever really and there is an intensity about it.

Matty is correct that the Wembley midweek games are as flat as an Ewood cup game in Mowbray's tenure.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

42 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

No mention of Finland playing 10 at the back? I do understand that the obvious spoils the narrative.

I just wish that despite dominating the game, scoring 2 very good goals, that we would shoot from distance more often and there is too much passing for the sake of it or must simply opting out of responsibility.

A comfortable win in a weak group.

I thought it was a decent performance against a Finland side who came and parked the bus. We never really looked like losing at any point. I was a bit concerned with our defence when they cut us open in the first half. Gomez was good on the ball but was easily bypassed when Finland came at us through the middle. I’d like to see how we go on against the better teams but that’s not going to happen.

I’m not a fan of the wingers constantly coming inside onto their “ stronger “ foot  and compressing play. Saka does it nearly all the time and then the player who came on to replace him was exactly the same. It just causes bunching of attackers and defenders in and around the penalty area so it’s hard to get a shot off.

Edited September 11 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[riverholmes]

5 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

No mention of Finland playing 10 at the back? I do understand that the obvious spoils the narrative.

I just wish that despite dominating the game, scoring 2 very good goals, that we would shoot from distance more often and there is too much passing for the sake of it or must simply opting out of responsibility.

A comfortable win in a weak group.

I only saw the highlights which showed forward passes leading to chances or goals. It seems that Gomes and TAA were key to them. However, reading the reviews, it sounds as if much of the play was slow and sideways, otherwise, albeit, faced by a defensive Finland side. Harry Kane's first goal was very impressive and helpful reminder that he has some mobility still.

If I'm not mistaken, some of the peak heights of tiki taka was the Spain sides under Aragones and then Del Bosque with Xavi, Iniesta and David Silva. Their possession football, as far as I could tell, was varied and attacking. Players made creative forward passes and would shift position, accepting a risk of losing the ball for the opportunity to open up defences.

Much of the modern game is a far cry from that, even with the best sides. It's risk-averse and about creating an overload with sideways passing and, often, scoring a cut-back. It's bizarre to see four or five attacking players on the defenders' shoulder, waiting for something to happen, rather than finding spaces, as was the norm for midfielders before.

 

Edited September 11 by riverholmes

[AllRoverAsia]

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I thought it was a decent performance against a Finland side who came and parked the bus. We never really looked like losing at any point. I was a bit concerned with our defence when they cut us open in the first half. Gomez was good on the ball but was easily bypassed when Finland came at us through the middle. I’d like to see how we go on against the better teams but that’s not going to happen.

I’m not a fan of the wingers constantly coming inside onto their “ stronger “ foot  and compressing play. Saka does it nearly all the time and then the player who came on to replace him was exactly the same. It just causes bunching of attackers and defenders in and around the penalty area so it’s hard to get a shot off.

I agree with all of that.

At least Gordon can occasionally go on the outside of the defender at speed and put in a decent out swinging with his weaker left foot, although he appears not as rapid as he was at Everton.

Finland did indeed threaten us with their breaks especially in the first half but poor decision making and passing cost them.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

18 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I agree with all of that.

At least Gordon can occasionally go on the outside of the defender at speed and put in a decent out swinging with his weaker left foot, although he appears not as rapid as he was at Everton.

Finland did indeed threaten us with their breaks especially in the first half but poor decision making and passing cost them.

You need to keep ‘em guessing. Go inside and outside. Work on your “ Weaker Foot ) constantly.

[speeeeeeedie]

I think that the FA will give the job to Carsley. If the FA are anything they are lazy. Promoting the last u21 manager to the job worked out well so why would it not again? 

Also, add in the fact that Spain won the Euro's with their former u21 boss at the helm and World Cup holders Argentina manager Lionel Scaloni was appointed under similar circumstances too gives them an easy comparison.

 

[Mattyblue]

Already in the FA tent and he’s been handed a run of fixtures in the Nations League second tier they’ll cruise through - it’s his.

[Andy]

12 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Stick that game at Villa Park or Elland Road or wherever really and there is an intensity about it.

Matty is correct that the Wembley midweek games are as flat as an Ewood cup game in Mowbray's tenure.

I've said this for a long time, the national team needs to be accessible to the whole country.

It's pointless being stuck away in a south-east corner, particularly for midweek evening games.

Play games at Villa Park, Old Trafford, Elland Road, Hillsborough, places like this. 

[Mattyblue]

Wembley build loans still needs paying off, also see FA Cup Semi Finals.

[jim mk2]

3 minutes ago, Andy said:

I've said this for a long time, the national team needs to be accessible to the whole country.

It's pointless being stuck away in a south-east corner, particularly for midweek evening games.

Play games at Villa Park, Old Trafford, Elland Road, Hillsborough, places like this. 

 

Too late. The Midlands was mooted as the site for a new national stadium instead of rebuilding Wembley - a site was identified near road and rail links that would have been ideal for fans across the country and help drive economic activity away from the south-east but the "authorities" decided to stay in London. 

The fact that the area around Wembley has also been entirely rebuilt with shopping centres, entertainment venues and blocks of high-rise expensive apartments is co-incidental of course.  Nothing changes - London always wins because that's where the government is

The FA won't be holding game around England anytime soon. 

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

From what was reported this morning it's Carsley job now from various media sources

[roversfan99]

Of course it is, and always was. The lazy, easy option of an FA man trying to be justified by 2 drab glorified friendlies wins v crap sides.

[Andy]

What a waste of an opportunity.

We do have the base of a squad good enough to win something, certainly over the coming few years.

And we're putting this absolute nobody in charge.

[Mike E]

Could’ve waited a year and had Pep.

[roversfan99]

The common support for him will be comparisons to Spain appointing their under 21 manager but to me that is a lazy one. If that was the reasoning, then just copying that as if the individuals and situation are the same. 

I found it a bit strange that Carsley called up a big chunk of his former under 21 squad, giving debuts to the likes of Gomes, Gibbs White and Madueke, giving 2 games to Colwill in from the cold and starting Gordon twice. Had there not been those links, then it may have been seen as thinking outside the box, but I wonder if there was an element of getting people he knows in to help him get his feet under the table.

Unfortunately, English coaches are sub par compared to other countries for whatever reason. It seems archaic to not feel able to look further afield.

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, Andy said:

What a waste of an opportunity.

We do have the base of a squad good enough to win something, certainly over the coming few years.

And we're putting this absolute nobody in charge.

Not a lot of very strong candidates out there. It's unfortunate timing. 

[ben_the_beast]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Of course it is, and always was. The lazy, easy option of an FA man trying to be justified by 2 drab glorified friendlies wins v crap sides.

I agree with this. It feels plain lazy. And if not that, its just a load of men in suits looking at each other not knowing what to do. They've been on easy street with Southgate at the healm, but even when things began to turn sour, it said a lot that they offered for him to stay on. It was purely Southgates decision to call time on his tenure. 

Strikes me as reminiscent of Mowbrays time here. His job security in what is a turbulent industry was unheard of because his employers knew they wouldn't have a clue where to turn for a replacement. Both him and Southgate only left their roles because they wanted too. Mowbray because his nose was put out of joint with no new contract offer and Southgate because he didn't like a few boos.

Now the FA are taking the easy option and just promoting from within. I seriously doubt there is anything they have seen behind the scenes which screams at Carsley being the best man for the job. And a few 'friendlies ' against very poor opposition is nothing to get excited about and a couple of poor results in bigger matches could easily see things turn sour quickly. Carsely has a big job on his hands earning the respect of the squad. I hope it works out, but if it does I'm sure it will be more by luck than design.

Edited September 12 by ben_the_beast

[Mashed Potatoes]

28 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

I agree with this. It feels plain lazy. And if not that, its just a load of men in suits looking at each other not knowing what to do. They've been on easy street with Southgate at the healm, but even when things began to turn sour, it said a lot that they offered for him to stay on. It was purely Southgates decision to call time on his tenure. 

Strikes me as reminiscent of Mowbrays time here. His job security in what is a turbulent industry was unheard of because his employers knew they wouldn't have a clue where to turn for a replacement. Both him and Southgate only left their roles because they wanted too. Mowbray because his nose was put out of joint with no new contract offer and Southgate because he didn't like a few boos.

Now the FA are taking the easy option and just promoting from within. I seriously doubt there is anything they have seen behind the scenes which screams at Carsley being the best man for the job. And a few 'friendlies ' against very poor opposition is nothing to get excited about and a couple of poor results in bigger matches could easily see things turn sour quickly. Carsely has a big job on his hands earning the respect of the squad. I hope it works out, but if it does I'm sure it will be more by luck than design.

You've failed to point out that Carsley managed England to win the European Under 21 Championship - a strong point in his favour.

[Dreams of 1995]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I found it a bit strange that Carsley called up a big chunk of his former under 21 squad, giving debuts to the likes of Gomes, Gibbs White and Madueke, giving 2 games to Colwill in from the cold and starting Gordon twice. Had there not been those links, then it may have been seen as thinking outside the box, but I wonder if there was an element of getting people he knows in to help him get his feet under the table.

So if he had no previous experience of managing an English national side then calling up younger players would be "outside of box" thinking but because he has experience of managing those young English lads, he is getting his feed under the table?

This makes no sense

There's also a limit to how outside of the box you can think when managing a national side...

There's no lazy comparison between de la Fuente and Carsley. They have had the same trajectories. It worked for Spain and so it could work for us

[Dreams of 1995]

55 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

I agree with this. It feels plain lazy. And if not that, its just a load of men in suits looking at each other not knowing what to do. They've been on easy street with Southgate at the healm, but even when things began to turn sour, it said a lot that they offered for him to stay on. It was purely Southgates decision to call time on his tenure. 

Strikes me as reminiscent of Mowbrays time here. His job security in what is a turbulent industry was unheard of because his employers knew they wouldn't have a clue where to turn for a replacement. Both him and Southgate only left their roles because they wanted too. Mowbray because his nose was put out of joint with no new contract offer and Southgate because he didn't like a few boos.

Now the FA are taking the easy option and just promoting from within. I seriously doubt there is anything they have seen behind the scenes which screams at Carsley being the best man for the job. And a few 'friendlies ' against very poor opposition is nothing to get excited about and a couple of poor results in bigger matches could easily see things turn sour quickly. Carsely has a big job on his hands earning the respect of the squad. I hope it works out, but if it does I'm sure it will be more by luck than design.

Do you really think it is the easy option?

The FA will get absolute pelters for appointing Lee Carsley. It doesn't seem the easy option for me. If Carsley sinks, the FA will take the full blame

I personally think you have taken a massive leap by doubting there's nothing behind the scenes which point for Carsley being the best man. For one, he has won a tournament with the current crop of English youngsters. A lot of them will form the next crop of English seniors. That is a pretty big something

[Mattyblue]

The FA have seen other national sides promote from within with success, they also worship the last fella who they’d have given a contract for life to if they could.

And at the end of the day if they aren’t going foreign and if Howe didn’t fancy it, who else is out there?

Edited September 12 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

22 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

So if he had no previous experience of managing an English national side then calling up younger players would be "outside of box" thinking but because he has experience of managing those young English lads, he is getting his feed under the table?

This makes no sense

There's also a limit to how outside of the box you can think when managing a national side...

There's no lazy comparison between de la Fuente and Carsley. They have had the same trajectories. It worked for Spain and so it could work for us

I was just wondering if Carsley called up a number of that under 21 squad in an attempt to get players he already knows as he looks to settle into the role. Im not convinced that the likes of Gibbs White and Madueke have that much chance of being in the World Cup squad.

England are at a point now where much of the team is settled and off the back of a period of playing together and many at the highest level. It needs trimming, players (Maguire, Walker and one or two others) and I feel like we are limiting ourselves if we rule out foreigners. Spain needed more of a revamp and I am guessing that winning the Euros was not necessarily expected. 

A Guardiola is the dream but even someone like Tuchel with a track record in top level knockout football.

[speeeeeeedie]

I have said over and over that club football and international management require slightly different skills. Why not give it to a coach rather than someone used to the daily work?

Guardiola and Klopp are brilliant but would they be able to translate their club success to international level? More than likely but it's not a sure bet.

Here are lists from Wikipedia of all World Cup and Euro winning managers. Since 1988 (before that my football knowledge is fleeting) only Lippi and maybe Del Bosque had sustained club success. 

Wikipedia: World Cup winning managers

Wikipedia: Euro winning managers

[Mashed Potatoes]

16 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

I have said over and over that club football and international management require slightly different skills. Why not give it to a coach rather than someone used to the daily work?

Guardiola and Klopp are brilliant but would they be able to translate their club success to international level? More than likely but it's not a sure bet.

Here are lists from Wikipedia of all World Cup and Euro winning managers. Since 1988 (before that my football knowledge is fleeting) only Lippi and maybe Del Bosque had sustained club success. 

Wikipedia: World Cup winning managers

Wikipedia: Euro winning managers

Actually Ramsey had achieved club success - but your point about the difference between club football and international management is a fair one.